Mormons and multi-level marketing

[Guest ldsashley]

I have noticed that there seems to be a trend that more Mormons do multi-level marketing businesses than anyone else. Does anyone know why this is? One reason I've heard is because we pay tithing and often have single income families, so we need more money. Another one is because we know a lot of people through church.

I've seen some people who do these businesses well - they make a little money and they don't offend anybody. But I've seen more people who do them poorly - they give all of their time and effort to it for very little reward, they use the stake directory for their business, they do it at church on Sunday, and they offend others with their tactics.

[Roseslipper]

iwould never do multi level marketing with my church or friends

[Roseslipper]

using ward list or stake directory list is not promitted to beused for business only church.

[livy111us]

The Church has seen this trend and has in fact, advised against such get rich schemes.

Modern-day prophets have pled in plainness for us to avoid get rich schemes " if we would avoid the heartaches of financial bondage. Perhaps we have not said enough about the fact that too many of us, in our moments of dreaming of grandeur, plant the seeds of economic disaster. Then at a later date when much is lost, we blame those who participated with us. It is difficult to be of good cheer when self-deceit is our companion. When we willingly expose ourselves to the winds and storms of fraud and scam, we should not be surprised when we come down with deficit disease. Over the years of listening to those who have suffered heavy money losses, I have heard many in desperation declare, "I was taken." Often my heart, mind, and the Spirit have prompted me to share, "Yes, you were taken by yourself." We all need to be encouraged to lift up our heads and see where our thoughts and undeclared priorities are taking us. Self-deceit permits us to blame others for our failures. Marvin J. Ashton, Be of Good Cheer [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1987], 5.)

Misrepresentation is the usual concomitant of gambling and I think of all get rich schemes. The principle of honesty seems to be inherent in sound labor, but it is ordinarily conspicuous by its absence in the manipulations that bring returns without work (Elder Stephen L Richards, Conference Report, April 1933, Afternoon Meeting 36.)

I advise all Latter-day Saints to be patient in financial matters. Avoid rash or hurried financial decisions; such decisions require patience and study.get rich schemes seldom work. Joseph B. Wirthlin, Finding Peace in Our Lives [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1995], 207.)

Invest wisely. Avoid speculations and get rich schemes. (Ensign, May 1981, p. 87.) Hoyt W. Brewster, Jr., Behold, I Come Quickly: The Last Days and Beyond [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1994], 178.)

There are no shortcuts to financial security. There are no get rich schemes that work (Hope [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1994], .)

We have learned to be careful as a Church concerning get rich schemes. A small element among us seems still to be affected with that injurious mentality (Arnold K. Garr and Clark V. Johnson, eds., Regional Studies in Latter-day Saint History: Missouri [Provo: Department of Church History and Doctrine, 1994], 10.)

[Guest ldsashley]

Yes, I agree they are a bad idea.

What I'm wondering is - why are they so much more common among members? What is it about them that makes it so attractive to LDS people in particular?

[Guest]

The Church has seen this trend and has in fact, advised against such get rich schemes.

Modern-day prophets have pled in plainness for us to avoid get rich schemes " if we would avoid the heartaches of financial bondage. Perhaps we have not said enough about the fact that too many of us, in our moments of dreaming of grandeur, plant the seeds of economic disaster. Then at a later date when much is lost, we blame those who participated with us. It is difficult to be of good cheer when self-deceit is our companion. When we willingly expose ourselves to the winds and storms of fraud and scam, we should not be surprised when we come down with deficit disease. Over the years of listening to those who have suffered heavy money losses, I have heard many in desperation declare, "I was taken." Often my heart, mind, and the Spirit have prompted me to share, "Yes, you were taken by yourself." We all need to be encouraged to lift up our heads and see where our thoughts and undeclared priorities are taking us. Self-deceit permits us to blame others for our failures. Marvin J. Ashton, Be of Good Cheer [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1987], 5.)

Misrepresentation is the usual concomitant of gambling and I think of all get rich schemes. The principle of honesty seems to be inherent in sound labor, but it is ordinarily conspicuous by its absence in the manipulations that bring returns without work (Elder Stephen L Richards, Conference Report, April 1933, Afternoon Meeting 36.)

I advise all Latter-day Saints to be patient in financial matters. Avoid rash or hurried financial decisions; such decisions require patience and study.get rich schemes seldom work. Joseph B. Wirthlin, Finding Peace in Our Lives [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1995], 207.)

Invest wisely. Avoid speculations and get rich schemes. (Ensign, May 1981, p. 87.) Hoyt W. Brewster, Jr., Behold, I Come Quickly: The Last Days and Beyond [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1994], 178.)

There are no shortcuts to financial security. There are no get rich schemes that work (Hope [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1994], .)

We have learned to be careful as a Church concerning get rich schemes. A small element among us seems still to be affected with that injurious mentality (Arnold K. Garr and Clark V. Johnson, eds., Regional Studies in Latter-day Saint History: Missouri [Provo: Department of Church History and Doctrine, 1994], 10.)

Sorry, but Multi-Level Marketing is not a Get Rich Quick Scheme. Multi-Level Marketing is actually a legitimate sales/marketing program. Do you think Tupperware is a Get Rich Quick Scheme? Pampered Chef? Avon? Of course not. I know a lot of Church Members who are "Representatives" for those 3 products who make around $600 or so of supplemental income - hardly get-rich-quick money, not even close - just by handing out catalogues and putting a decal on their car. I buy Avon stuff - I bought these birthstone pendants for my mom's necklace for all her grandchildren from Avon. When she gets another grandchild, I just call my friend who sells Avon to get the new pendant. I also buy Arbonne facial cleansers and lotions - I'm into the natural, organic, non-petroleum based skin care products - from another woman at Church. And I get Pampered Chef spatulas from another woman at Church in another ward. They've all been doing this for years and they're hardly getting "Rich Quick". Church members just know that if you want something from some catalogue you call Sister-So-and-So.

These companies leverage word-of-mouth as a means to get their products out to the public. It's the same as some teeny-bopper showing other teeny-boppers how to use this make-up product on You-Tube and so somebody in the comments section asks - what is that make-up you're using which ends up with her buying the product which she normally wouldn't have thought of buying. The You-Tube video maker gets word-of-mouth advertising compensation.

And why are there a lot of Church Members doing it? Because, the Marketing Structure is similar to a Missionary Program. You tell people about it and hopefully it sparks some interest. It works just like the "Every Member a Missionary" way of life if done the way it is designed. Just like the Gospel of Christ, you use the products in your own life (so, before you can be a representative of some product, you must first like the product to be using it yourself), so that people see you and they know that when you talk about the Church (or the products), you're just talking about something that is a part of your life and not really trying to pawn the Church (or the products) on other people who has no desire to hear it.

And just like people really hate it when they get a "Missionary Ambush", people really hate it when they get a "Multi-Level Marketing Ambush". So, you know that if it doesn't work on an "Every Member a Missionary" structure, it won't work for a Multi-Level Marketing structure as well.

I actually prefer buying things I need from an MLM Representative who uses the product than from an advertisement on TV who I don't know might just pretend to like the product on TV. And how many times have you read a book or watched a movie because somebody told you about it? And how many times have you stayed at a hotel or bought something from Amazon because you saw good reviews on the internet? That's how MLM works. Except the people who recommended the book/movie/hotel/Amazon product gets a commission for every person who buys something because they heard it from their recommendations.

Are there bad MLM programs? Of course there are - but the US government has made strict laws to crack down on these MLM programs. Basically, these programs are the Ponzi Schemes where the product actually sucks (or are non-existent) and the Representatives don't try to sell the product, they try to sell the "you can get to this level and you can get $10,000 per month and a brand new Cadillac if you just put in $450 initial start-up and $100/month after that". Those are Ponzi Schemes and so you need to stay away from it. But, if you really like Tupperware or Avon or Pampered Chef or Arbonne or Creative Memories or Partylite Candles, you can try to see if being a Representative of those products would be something you want to do. You already have missionary experience to know the pitfalls to avoid...

Edited April 2, 2013 by anatess

[Dravin]

Sorry, but Multi-Level Marketing is not a Get Rich Quick Scheme.

To be fair some get rich quick schemes masquerade as MLM. This doesn't negate the distinction, but it does explain why some folks confuse the two. People pitching MLM who make it sound like a get rich quick scheme don't help either. I've sat through pitches where the main focus wasn't on selling product/services but on recruiting people under you so that you can make $100,000 a year without doing anything from bonuses and the like, it just screams pyramid scheme even if in truth it is a reasonable sustainable business model.

What I'm wondering is - why are they so much more common among members? What is it about them that makes it so attractive to LDS people in particular?

I suspect, in the case of a true MLM, it is the number of relationships that some members have that makes them attractive. A lot of people learn the hard way that it isn't a get rich quick scheme when they 'exhaust' those first relationships and find out they have to work hard if they want to maintain that early success.

As far as scams, as opposed to true MLM, it's affinity fraud, religious groups are prime territory for that sort of thing.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Dravin

[skippy740]

Just a hunch, but I think members are just more trusting of other members, so they are more easily swayed into participating in such "ventures". This makes us more susceptible to affinity fraud than some other groups. Members of the church are often seen as very credible people and upstanding citizens who can be perceived as excellent recruiters.

Personally, if I were to look at (another) MLM thing again, I'd have to give it the "McDonald's test".

Let's say you owned a McDonalds. But business is bad. You have:

- No inventory

- No employees

- No customers

What would your "business mentor/sponsor" tell you to do?

If they say "go build another one across the street"... run!

If a "MLM recruiter" tells you they are expanding their business... ask to see their personal retail customer receipts that shows that they have too much demand and not enough time to fulfill their orders.

If they've never retailed one of their products, then ask them what "business" are they trying to expand... because they don't HAVE one!

[Guest]

To be fair some get rich quick schemes masquerade as MLM. This doesn't negate the distinction, but it does explain why some folks confuse the two. People pitching MLM who make it sound like a get rich quick scheme don't help either. I've sat through pitches where the main focus wasn't on selling product/services but on recruiting people under you so that you can make $100,000 a year without doing anything from bonuses and the like, it just screams pyramid scheme even if in truth it is a reasonable sustainable business model.

This is illegal and if you find somebody marketing in that manner, you should report them to the proper authorities. Or, if the business is a legitimate business... for example, some Amway representative tried to sell the business in that manner... you can call Amway directly with the name of the representative that tried to sell it to you and they will correct it from within... which sometimes takes a while because they'll have to go through the "distributorship line" because, chances are, if the rep is selling in that manner, he/she was taught to do it that way from her supervisor.

Amway was the first company to get smacked by the Feds for trying to market Amway products through a Ponzi Scheme. Amway has cleaned up their act considerably and new laws were passed to prevent other wanna-be-Amways from popping up and Amway is now a thriving legal business. But because of their history, they are quick to shut down distributors who try to market in the Ponzi Scheme manner.

Of course, as this is a structure that lends easily to improperly trained reps, there are always going to be bad apples.

[Anddenex]

My personal opinion, the lure of making good money and being your own boss.

As an Amway representative once said, "I went fishing in California, it wasn't good, so I boarded a plane the next day and fished in Florida. Florida was great."

These companies bring the lure, that you have no boss, but you have the potential to make thousands of dollars a week. You wake up when you want to. You sleep when you want to. You have your own dress code. You have plenty of time to spend with your family and to enjoy your children while you are young. The best part, you don't have to deal with bosses who make all the money and expect you to work to make them more money while your income remains the same.

All these things speak wonderful things to a member of the Church.

[Guest]

My personal opinion, the lure of making good money and being your own boss.

As an Amway representative once said, "I went fishing in California, it wasn't good, so I boarded a plane the next day and fished in Florida. Florida was great."

These companies bring the lure, that you have no boss, but you have the potential to make thousands of dollars a week. You wake up when you want to. You sleep when you want to. You have your own dress code. You have plenty of time to spend with your family and to enjoy your children while you are young. The best part, you don't have to deal with bosses who make all the money and expect you to work to make them more money while your income remains the same.

All these things speak wonderful things to a member of the Church.

And, of course, they don't talk about the hard work needed before you can get to that level. So people think, oh, so and so is living the high life, I can too!

This is such a human thing - to believe that lots of money can be yours without working for it because they see... Paris Hilton, or something. They don't see the hard work that Paris Hilton's parents and grandparents and the grandparents before them actually do to get them there. Of course, they don't see Paris Hilton working either (she actually does!) because nobody ever shows pictures of her doing any work.

[UtahJakey]

In many ways the MLM business mirrors the missionary program. People are recruited in their own homes. The relationship with the recruiter is important. Feelings and emotion are used in the decision making process.

I've noticed converts tend to be the type that end up participating in a lot of MLMs.