Questioning Assumptions

[porterrockwell]

Yeah, again, why I obey. Exaltation, to be glorified like my Father in Heaven. Adam himself has a pretty famous quote about obedience. The man upstairs has laws sent down to us because the laws we follow(with our heart as well as action) dictate the level at which we will be placed upon judgement. That and I tend to lay off scrutinizing things that are set before, when they are placed there by the Big Man that created me. Also, again, GED is just a formality. Doesn't signify my education level. Just so I look qualified on a piece of paper. My not graduating had nothing to do with academics, but with intent. Nonetheless, I digress. Plus, I have studied college material and converse with many a college student. While college is in the plans, it is not a different universe than I thought. I was also very successful at small business before I left to the MTC, so I don't feel that I am behind in any way.

[Cal]

Originally posted by porterrockwell@Mar 24 2004, 07:50 PM

Yeah, again, why I obey.  Exaltation, to be glorified like my Father in Heaven.  Adam himself has a pretty famous quote about obedience.  The man upstairs has laws sent down to us because the laws we follow(with our heart as well as action) dictate the level at which we will be placed upon judgement.  That and I tend to lay off scrutinizing things that are set before, when they are placed there by the Big Man that created me.  Also, again, GED is just a formality.  Doesn't signify my education level.  Just so I look qualified on a piece of paper.  My not graduating had nothing to do with academics, but with intent.  Nonetheless, I digress.  Plus, I have studied college material and converse with many a college student.  While college is in the plans, it is not a different universe than I thought.  I was also very successful at small business before I left to the MTC, so I don't feel that I am behind in any way.

Wow--you actually talked to a college student? Well then, where is your PhD?

OK, I apologize for being so freeking sarcastic---but you crack me up sometimes. BTW--the "different universe" is not in the college (as in the campus or the social life) it is in the LEARNING and insights from really digging in to what is known about science and the humanities---sorry but a little superficial reading is not what I am talking about.

[porterrockwell]

One, I was responding to your sarcasm and over-analytical assumption with the same as much. I have been around that "different universe". Nothing impressive. Sorry. If there is a God, and this IS his true church, then isn't it what he says giving us the law by which we shall recieve exaltation??? Can any one human concept or exhibition transcend God? First and foremost, if yes, then you shouldn't be LDS, much less Christian. If NO, then clearly the pursuit of education, intelligence, and enlightenment should be subject to a righteous predisposition(on our part). Cultivated in the garden of righteousness. If historical evidence can lead you away from the church, and you will submit yourself to the possibility that our church isn't true, then why are you LDS? I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there is no evidence on earth, no amount of endless reasoning that can derail the church or prove it to be a fallacious organization. This IS God's ONE TRUE CHURCH ON EARTH.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Cal+Mar 25 2004, 10:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Mar 25 2004, 10:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--porterrockwell@Mar 24 2004, 07:50 PM

Yeah, again, why I obey.  Exaltation, to be glorified like my Father in Heaven.  Adam himself has a pretty famous quote about obedience.  The man upstairs has laws sent down to us because the laws we follow(with our heart as well as action) dictate the level at which we will be placed upon judgement.  That and I tend to lay off scrutinizing things that are set before, when they are placed there by the Big Man that created me.  Also, again, GED is just a formality.  Doesn't signify my education level.  Just so I look qualified on a piece of paper.  My not graduating had nothing to do with academics, but with intent.  Nonetheless, I digress.  Plus, I have studied college material and converse with many a college student.  While college is in the plans, it is not a different universe than I thought.  I was also very successful at small business before I left to the MTC, so I don't feel that I am behind in any way.

Wow--you actually talked to a college student? Well then, where is your PhD?

OK, I apologize for being so freeking sarcastic---but you crack me up sometimes. BTW--the "different universe" is not in the college (as in the campus or the social life) it is in the LEARNING and insights from really digging in to what is known about science and the humanities---sorry but a little superficial reading is not what I am talking about.

but Cal...(here i go butting in again)

Even if you have all knowledge....and had not charity, which is the fruit of the spirit/Love...in a pure heart which was made pure through the love/charity of Christ's atonement...

Even if you have all knowledge...you have profitted nothing...

Seriously, you can't allow your whole approach to gospel principles and doctrine be through a physical realm....

It would be like trying to drive a car on spiritual faith alone. You have to have both faith and works....physical and spiritua...

Consider the principle behind this scripture's teachings:

D&C 93:

33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy; (glory/intelligence/light/truth)

34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy. (glory/intelligence/light/truth)

35 The elements are the tabernacle of God; (our physical body, and knowledge)

What is it saying here is that it takes both physical and spiritual to make a whole. One without the other will not bring a complete understanding or obtainment of anything...knowledge and comprehension of the Spiritual realm are like good and evil...you can't have one without the other...

When you try to do everything in the physical world, you are trying to eliminate light in the equation of light and dark....but you can't have light without dark and you can't know what dark or light is with out having the contrast/opposition.

What I am saying is that as long as you only persue the physical....trying to eliminate entirely the spiritual...you will never really come to a full knowledge of anything with assurance...because you have eliminated the opposite in your searching for truth.

Consider this....Christ is Truth...if you try and avoid His reality or Spiritual side of existence...which Truth is....you will never find real truth...

another scripture:

D&C 84:45 For the word of the Lord is truth, and whatsoever is truth is light, and whatsoever is light is Spirit, even the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

46 And the Spirit giveth light to every man that cometh into the world; and the Spirit enlighteneth every man through the world, that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit.

[Cal]

Originally posted by porterrockwell@Mar 26 2004, 08:35 AM

One, I was responding to your sarcasm and over-analytical assumption with the same as much. I have been around that "different universe". Nothing impressive. Sorry. If there is a God, and this IS his true church, then isn't it what he says giving us the law by which we shall recieve exaltation??? Can any one human concept or exhibition transcend God? First and foremost, if yes, then you shouldn't be LDS, much less Christian. If NO, then clearly the pursuit of education, intelligence, and enlightenment should be subject to a righteous predisposition(on our part). Cultivated in the garden of righteousness. If historical evidence can lead you away from the church, and you will submit yourself to the possibility that our church isn't true, then why are you LDS? I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there is no evidence on earth, no amount of endless reasoning that can derail the church or prove it to be a fallacious organization. This IS God's ONE TRUE CHURCH ON EARTH.

Well then, by all means, lets shut down the colleges and universities, and turn BYU into a big seminary building!

[Cal]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 26 2004, 10:48 AM

Yeah, again, why I obey.  Exaltation, to be glorified like my Father in Heaven.  Adam himself has a pretty famous quote about obedience.  The man upstairs has laws sent down to us because the laws we follow(with our heart as well as action) dictate the level at which we will be placed upon judgement.  That and I tend to lay off scrutinizing things that are set before, when they are placed there by the Big Man that created me.  Also, again, GED is just a formality.  Doesn't signify my education level.  Just so I look qualified on a piece of paper.  My not graduating had nothing to do with academics, but with intent.  Nonetheless, I digress.  Plus, I have studied college material and converse with many a college student.  While college is in the plans, it is not a different universe than I thought.  I was also very successful at small business before I left to the MTC, so I don't feel that I am behind in any way.

Wow--you actually talked to a college student? Well then, where is your PhD?

OK, I apologize for being so freeking sarcastic---but you crack me up sometimes. BTW--the "different universe" is not in the college (as in the campus or the social life) it is in the LEARNING and insights from really digging in to what is known about science and the humanities---sorry but a little superficial reading is not what I am talking about.

but Cal...(here i go butting in again)

Even if you have all knowledge....and had not charity, which is the fruit of the spirit/Love...in a pure heart which was made pure through the love/charity of Christ's atonement...

Even if you have all knowledge...you have profitted nothing...

Seriously, you can't allow your whole approach to gospel principles and doctrine be through a physical realm....

It would be like trying to drive a car on spiritual faith alone. You have to have both faith and works....physical and spiritua...

Consider the principle behind this scripture's teachings:

D&C 93:

33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy; (glory/intelligence/light/truth)

34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy. (glory/intelligence/light/truth)

35 The elements are the tabernacle of God; (our physical body, and knowledge)

What is it saying here is that it takes both physical and spiritual to make a whole. One without the other will not bring a complete understanding or obtainment of anything...knowledge and comprehension of the Spiritual realm are like good and evil...you can't have one without the other...

When you try to do everything in the physical world, you are trying to eliminate light in the equation of light and dark....but you can't have light without dark and you can't know what dark or light is with out having the contrast/opposition.

What I am saying is that as long as you only persue the physical....trying to eliminate entirely the spiritual...you will never really come to a full knowledge of anything with assurance...because you have eliminated the opposite in your searching for truth.

Consider this....Christ is Truth...if you try and avoid His reality or Spiritual side of existence...which Truth is....you will never find real truth...

another scripture:

D&C 84:45 For the word of the Lord is truth, and whatsoever is truth is light, and whatsoever is light is Spirit, even the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

46 And the Spirit giveth light to every man that cometh into the world; and the Spirit enlighteneth every man through the world, that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit.

Your statement might make some sense if you ACTUALLY had any respect for the "physical realm", but your reference is disingenuous. When the "physical realm" contradicts your religous preconceptions, you dismiss the "physical realm" as though it didn't exist. What you really want is to live in your own little dream world of wishful thinking and easy answers. I hope I'm not being too direct, but you can't claim to respect scientific thinking and then turn around and put it down when its 'fruits' contradict your religious ideas.

[Guest Starsky]

Your statement might make some sense if you ACTUALLY had any respect for the "physical realm", but your reference is disingenuous. When the "physical realm" contradicts your religous preconceptions, you dismiss the "physical realm" as though it didn't exist. What you really want is to live in your own little dream world of wishful thinking and easy answers. I hope I'm not being too direct, but you can't claim to respect scientific thinking and then turn around and put it down when its 'fruits' contradict your religious ideas.

Okay...but I think the same could be said for you and your physical realm and the fact that you have no respect for the 'spiritual realm'...

[Cal]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 27 2004, 12:19 PM

Your statement might make some sense if you ACTUALLY had any respect for the "physical realm", but your reference is disingenuous. When the "physical realm" contradicts your religous preconceptions, you dismiss the "physical realm" as though it didn't exist. What you really want is to live in your own little dream world of wishful thinking and easy answers. I hope I'm not being too direct, but you can't claim to respect scientific thinking and then turn around and put it down when its 'fruits' contradict your religious ideas.

Okay...but I think the same could be said for you and your physical realm and the fact that you have no respect for the 'spiritual realm'...

I have plenty of evidence that the physical realm actually exists and understand its rules. The spiritual realm you claim to know about makes little sense to me. I have my OWN spiritual realm, but it's not the same as yours as it works on a different set of rules. Mine is in harmony with the physical realm, your apparently isn't.

[Guest Starsky]

QUOTE=Cal,Mar 27 2004, 12:53 PM]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 27 2004, 12:19 PM

Your statement might make some sense if you ACTUALLY had any respect for the "physical realm", but your reference is disingenuous. When the "physical realm" contradicts your religous preconceptions, you dismiss the "physical realm" as though it didn't exist. What you really want is to live in your own little dream world of wishful thinking and easy answers. I hope I'm not being too direct, but you can't claim to respect scientific thinking and then turn around and put it down when its 'fruits' contradict your religious ideas.

Okay...but I think the same could be said for you and your physical realm and the fact that you have no respect for the 'spiritual realm'...

I have plenty of evidence that the physical realm actually exists and understand its rules. The spiritual realm you claim to know about makes little sense to me. I have my OWN spiritual realm, but it's not the same as yours as it works on a different set of rules. Mine is in harmony with the physical realm, your apparently isn't.

There is a science of 'thought' which states that if you visualized something long enough it will become a reality.

I believe this science is correct...it was in a study of the power of the brain. You have often stated the conclusions yourself....'wishful thinking' you call it.

Well God operates (though at a much more effecient rate) on this same principle....He is the Word....meaning He is the power to create.

"Let there be light...and there was light"

We have this same power...only minimal because we don't apply it....as a man thinketh...so is he...

We have also seen it in action with 'educational thought'....treat a person as you would want them to be ....and over time they will become that person.

These are all applications of the science of philosophy....but science of behavior can be every bit as precise as the science of biology...it is just hard to identify all the variables, or so we think.

I think there are many variables with the biological science...yet undiscovered...and that is why you think you can't reconcile God's scientific knowledge and applications with mans scientific knowledge and applications.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Peace+Mar 27 2004, 01:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Mar 27 2004, 01:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

QUOTE=Cal,Mar 27 2004, 12:53 PM] <!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Mar 27 2004, 12:19 PM

Your statement might make some sense if you ACTUALLY had any respect for the "physical realm", but your reference is disingenuous. When the "physical realm" contradicts your religous preconceptions, you dismiss the "physical realm" as though it didn't exist. What you really want is to live in your own little dream world of wishful thinking and easy answers. I hope I'm not being too direct, but you can't claim to respect scientific thinking and then turn around and put it down when its 'fruits' contradict your religious ideas.

Okay...but I think the same could be said for you and your physical realm and the fact that you have no respect for the 'spiritual realm'...

I have plenty of evidence that the physical realm actually exists and understand its rules. The spiritual realm you claim to know about makes little sense to me. I have my OWN spiritual realm, but it's not the same as yours as it works on a different set of rules. Mine is in harmony with the physical realm, your apparently isn't.

There is a science of 'thought' which states that if you visualized something long enough it will become a reality.

I believe this science is correct...it was in a study of the power of the brain. You have often stated the conclusions yourself....'wishful thinking' you call it.

Well God operates (though at a much more effecient rate) on this same principle....He is the Word....meaning He is the power to create.

"Let there be light...and there was light"

We have this same power...only minimal because we don't apply it....as a man thinketh...so is he...

We have also seen it in action with 'educational thought'....treat a person as you would want them to be ....and over time they will become that person.

These are all applications of the science of philosophy....but science of behavior can be every bit as precise as the science of biology...it is just hard to identify all the variables, or so we think.

I think there are many variables with the biological science...yet undiscovered...and that is why you think you can't reconcile God's scientific knowledge and applications with mans scientific knowledge and applications.

???????? I think you totally misconstrue the philosophy of which you speak. The power of "thought" in bring about change has nothing to do with some sort of psychic power to make things "materialize" or violate the laws of physics as you imply. It simply means that your mind will 1) help motivate you to solve problems associated with the real world or 2) will work on a problem, subconsciously until it either solves it or doesn't. There is no guarantee that your brain will solve all problems or make anything materialize out of nothing. Please!!!!!!

BTW--just claiming that science hasn't solved all problems is HARDLY evidence that it will solve them in favor of the supernatural.

[Guest Starsky]

???????? I think you totally misconstrue the philosophy of which you speak. The power of "thought" in bring about change has nothing to do with some sort of psychic power to make things "materialize" or violate the laws of physics as you imply. It simply means that your mind will 1) help motivate you to solve problems associated with the real world or 2) will work on a problem, subconsciously until it either solves it or doesn't. There is no guarantee that your brain will solve all problems or make anything materialize out of nothing. Please!!!!!!

BTW--just claiming that science hasn't solved all problems is HARDLY evidence that it will solve them in favor of the supernatural.

LOL....what is nothing? Isn't everything here to make it all happen?

And I must admit...I don't believe in the super natural....I believe God and His ways are all very natural.

Consider the way uneducated, isolated tribe people are superstitious because they don't understand the science behind matches making light, or whatever....

To them all of our modern everyday things would seem 'supernatural' in origin....

We have to be humble enough to understand...that compared to God...we are as backwards in our knowledge as those isolated tribe people...

[Cal]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 27 2004, 01:28 PM

???????? I think you totally misconstrue the philosophy of which you speak. The power of "thought" in bring about change has nothing to do with some sort of psychic power to make things "materialize" or violate the laws of physics as you imply. It simply means that your mind will 1) help motivate you to solve problems associated with the real world or 2) will work on a problem, subconsciously until it either solves it or doesn't. There is no guarantee that your brain will solve all problems or make anything materialize out of nothing. Please!!!!!!

BTW--just claiming that science hasn't solved all problems is HARDLY evidence that it will solve them in favor of the supernatural.

LOL....what is nothing? Isn't everything here to make it all happen?

And I must admit...I don't believe in the super natural....I believe God and His ways are all very natural.

Consider the way uneducated, isolated tribe people are superstitious because they don't understand the science behind matches making light, or whatever....

To them all of our modern everyday things would seem 'supernatural' in origin....

We have to be humble enough to understand...that compared to God...we are as backwards in our knowledge as those isolated tribe people...

Sorry, but you can CLAIM that your God is less supernatural than that of the "tribes", but your statements about things he does TOTALLY contradict you. Your God fixes automobile engines, pushes boats around in the water, spews air out of his "body" to make strange boats move through the water, and violates the laws of physics at every turn. HOW IS THAT NOT SUPERNATURAL.

All you are trying to do is make your SUPERNATURAL idea of God sound more legit by saying he isn't what you clearly make him into. Until your God quits manipulating the universe by violating the very laws that govern it, you have no right to make any distinction between your God and the one uncivilized tribes believe in------you both believe in a God who does things for which there is no rational explanation.

[Guest Starsky]

Sorry, but you can CLAIM that your God is less supernatural than that of the "tribes", but your statements about things he does TOTALLY contradict you. Your God fixes automobile engines, pushes boats around in the water, spews air out of his "body" to make strange boats move through the water, and violates the laws of physics at every turn. HOW IS THAT NOT SUPERNATURAL.

All you are trying to do is make your SUPERNATURAL idea of God sound more legit by saying he isn't what you clearly make him into. Until your God quits manipulating the universe by violating the very laws that govern it, you have no right to make any distinction between your God and the one uncivilized tribes believe in------you both believe in a God who does things for which there is no rational explanation.

Okay...well if that is what you want to see...that is what you will see. :)

[Behunin]

Cal, as far as reality goes, do you believe you see things as they really are?

[Cal]

Originally posted by Behunin@Mar 27 2004, 07:32 PM

Cal, as far as reality goes, do you believe you see things as they really are?

Doesn't every one?

[porterrockwell]

Do you even believe in God...furthermore do you really believe that the Quorum of the 12 are special witnesses to Christ?

[Behunin]

Originally posted by Cal+Mar 27 2004, 10:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Mar 27 2004, 10:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Behunin@Mar 27 2004, 07:32 PM

Cal, as far as reality goes, do you believe you see things as they really are?

Doesn't every one?

That was the main story in the Matrix. I believe man may evolve to where he does see things as they are, but the Gospel, or good news is, that while man is asleep, he may awake and see things as they are, even comprehending God, D&C 88:49.

It has been proven for years that we do not see things as they are. The brain, like a computer cache, interprets electrical signals and we "see" an image. The image may or may not reflect reality. It's why you can switch the middle letters (t and o) on a stop sign (SOTP) and people will still "see" STOP on the sign.

In the Matrix Neo evolves, or awakes to where he can see things as they are. At the end he doesn't see agents, he sees the computer program. That is probably why the song at the end of the movie is called "Wake Up."

[Cal]

Originally posted by Behunin@Mar 28 2004, 05:18 PM

Cal, as far as reality goes, do you believe you see things as they really are?

Doesn't every one?

That was the main story in the Matrix. I believe man may evolve to where he does see things as they are, but the Gospel, or good news is, that while man is asleep, he may awake and see things as they are, even comprehending God, D&C 88:49.

It has been proven for years that we do not see things as they are. The brain, like a computer cache, interprets electrical signals and we "see" an image. The image may or may not reflect reality. It's why you can switch the middle letters (t and o) on a stop sign (SOTP) and people will still "see" STOP on the sign.

In the Matrix Neo evolves, or awakes to where he can see things as they are. At the end he doesn't see agents, he sees the computer program. That is probably why the song at the end of the movie is called "Wake Up."

And your point is..........? What? That your reality is better than someone else's?

As they say in Spanish: Cada cabeza es un mundo? O en otra palabras, cada cabeza contiene su propia realidad?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Cal@Mar 30 2004, 02:01 PM

Cal, as far as reality goes, do you believe you see things as they really are?

Doesn't every one?

That was the main story in the Matrix. I believe man may evolve to where he does see things as they are, but the Gospel, or good news is, that while man is asleep, he may awake and see things as they are, even comprehending God, D&C 88:49.

It has been proven for years that we do not see things as they are. The brain, like a computer cache, interprets electrical signals and we "see" an image. The image may or may not reflect reality. It's why you can switch the middle letters (t and o) on a stop sign (SOTP) and people will still "see" STOP on the sign.

In the Matrix Neo evolves, or awakes to where he can see things as they are. At the end he doesn't see agents, he sees the computer program. That is probably why the song at the end of the movie is called "Wake Up."

And your point is..........? What? That your reality is better than someone else's?

As they say in Spanish: Cada cabeza es un mundo? O en otra palabras, cada cabeza contiene su propia realidad?

Each head is a world? Or in another words, each head contains its own reality?

But there is one 'true' reality we will all have to come to one day. and that is the 'Creators' reality.

[Behunin]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 30 2004, 03:31 PM

But there is one 'true' reality we will all have to come to one day. and that is the 'Creators' reality.

Yes!

Be in the world, not of the world.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 30 2004, 02:31 PM

Cal, as far as reality goes, do you believe you see things as they really are?

Doesn't every one?

That was the main story in the Matrix. I believe man may evolve to where he does see things as they are, but the Gospel, or good news is, that while man is asleep, he may awake and see things as they are, even comprehending God, D&C 88:49.

It has been proven for years that we do not see things as they are. The brain, like a computer cache, interprets electrical signals and we "see" an image. The image may or may not reflect reality. It's why you can switch the middle letters (t and o) on a stop sign (SOTP) and people will still "see" STOP on the sign.

In the Matrix Neo evolves, or awakes to where he can see things as they are. At the end he doesn't see agents, he sees the computer program. That is probably why the song at the end of the movie is called "Wake Up."

And your point is..........? What? That your reality is better than someone else's?

As they say in Spanish: Cada cabeza es un mundo? O en otra palabras, cada cabeza contiene su propia realidad?

Each head is a world? Or in another words, each head contains its own reality?

But there is one 'true' reality we will all have to come to one day. and that is the 'Creators' reality.

This "one true reality" ? Can you show me how it doesn't just exist in your own head? How do you manage to get into the heads of anyone else to "prove" the existance of a reality outside of your own?

[Cal]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 30 2004, 02:31 PM

Cal, as far as reality goes, do you believe you see things as they really are?

Doesn't every one?

That was the main story in the Matrix. I believe man may evolve to where he does see things as they are, but the Gospel, or good news is, that while man is asleep, he may awake and see things as they are, even comprehending God, D&C 88:49.

It has been proven for years that we do not see things as they are. The brain, like a computer cache, interprets electrical signals and we "see" an image. The image may or may not reflect reality. It's why you can switch the middle letters (t and o) on a stop sign (SOTP) and people will still "see" STOP on the sign.

In the Matrix Neo evolves, or awakes to where he can see things as they are. At the end he doesn't see agents, he sees the computer program. That is probably why the song at the end of the movie is called "Wake Up."

And your point is..........? What? That your reality is better than someone else's?

As they say in Spanish: Cada cabeza es un mundo? O en otra palabras, cada cabeza contiene su propia realidad?

Each head is a world? Or in another words, each head contains its own reality?

But there is one 'true' reality we will all have to come to one day. and that is the 'Creators' reality.

Creator's reality? So God will substitute his mind for ours? And we will no longer have our own minds? Is that sort of like losing your mind?

[Guest Starsky]

((Creator's reality? So God will substitute his mind for ours? And we will no longer have our own minds? Is that sort of like losing your mind? ))

No mention of minds....just reality. That means 'perception'...not brains....LOL

[Cal]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 31 2004, 06:13 PM

((Creator's reality? So God will substitute his mind for ours? And we will no longer have our own minds? Is that sort of like losing your mind? ))

No mention of minds....just reality. That means 'perception'...not brains....LOL

Ahhh....perception vs. reality. Have you figured out a way to distinguish perception from reality? Isn't reality just an abstraction we invent to give legitimacy to our perception?

[porterrockwell]

Here is reality. We are here to gain a mortal body, experience those things which will give us the opportunity to choose between good and evil and progress therein. Whether it be for Exaltation or Condemnation. This PROBATIONARY state is nothing more than a "blip" on our Eternal Timeline. The things we choose to follow WILL determine the amount of progress we will be capable of in the next life.

Regardless of how you feel, the Lord has spoken and his word, his law, his will is written for all to see. YOU can CHOOSE to have any reality you would like. However, if it does not fall in line with the Lord's way, that will be your own personal undoing.

Of course God isn't replacing our mind with his. But you do need to remember something, the whole point of us being here is to understand to SOME extent the knowledge that he has. I would hope one day my MIND would be AS HIS, but nonetheless, he gives us a choice...that in itself is obvious.

There are two kinds of reality one that exists, and one you create. By "creating" your own reality, you rely on a weak, insufficient source of strength and perspective(your flesh), and by doing so fall victim to the master of all fallen mentality and carnal deviance....Satan. By learning to walk to the path of God, you accept the reality that God has laid before us, if you don't, you are pretty much denying the faith. Don't you believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins?