Families Can Be Together Forever...

[AFDaw]

I started to say. Peace and I haven't been saying different things. You're just chosing to see it that way. In fact..Peace and I have both talked about the work being done for families. Many of whom are NON-MEMBERS. Soooo...yeah, I'm not understanding your assumption that we have differing opinions. See, maybe if you actually KNEW the Mormon doctrine then you could understand why our posts read the way they do.

Also, you want to complain about people not answering your questions, when in fact we were answering them from the get-go. Where is the answer to my question?

[sgallan]

Aww, what's wrong Peace. Is this what you do when you cannot defend either yourself, or your version of faith? You've done run out of anything substanative (if you actually have anything substanative) to say, so you've resorted to ad-hominem and nonsensical oblique references? For the record my name is spelled Gallan, not Gallon. I am in Parker Arizona. You couldn't pay me enough to live in Utah.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by sgallan@Jan 13 2004, 12:40 PM

Aww, what's wrong Peace. Is this what you do when you cannot defend either yourself, or your version of faith? You've done run out of anything substanative (if you actually have anything substanative) to say, so you've resorted to ad-hominem and nonsensical oblique references? For the record my name is spelled Gallan, not Gallon. I am in Parker Arizona. You couldn't pay me enough to live in Utah.

I can discuss my doctrinal issues of the church with intelligent and informed people. I have proven that over and over again...just as you have proven you don't know how to understand multitask doctrines and principles.

I do "that" when I try and discover why you have so much time as a 'father' to be on a computer all day...when you should either be at work...or are at work....making a living for your family.

I also do that when I get tired of the lack of 'understanding' someone has because burdensome and useless to the discussion.

You have been given moreinformation about the doctrines you supposedly don't think are right...than any regular believing mormon...and you are still kicking around half truths and side sliding...accusations and 'just plain crap' and even throwing out your daughters picture and in your own words admittingyou did it to benefit yourself....well bro....I'm tired of you making up your own substantiations and evaluations which come to naught....

I figured you had to be related to low kind of people to be slurping at the gutter the way you do.

[Guest Starsky]

OKAY....I give up....are we ever ..ever....ever. going to get an edit button again? If not...I think I will just quit posting here.

[sgallan]

I can discuss my doctrinal issues of the church with intelligent and informed people. I have proven that over and over again...just as you have proven you don't know how to understand multitask doctrines and principles. ****

I have mostly stayed out of the doctrinal discussion part for quite sometime now.... silly. I just responded to how something sounded and went from there. Since then MY conversations have taken on a different life.

**** I do "that" when I try and discover why you have so much time as a 'father' to be on a computer all day...when you should either be at work...or are at work....making a living for your family. *****

Silly again. There are non-traditional ways to making money. Taught a little weight training from 5:45 - 7:00. I did some Pest Control from 7:30 to about 10:30. I'll do an 1/2 hour of more more later. Maybe. I proofed a couple of Syllibi at my desk - which contains the computer. I have one more to do today which I have started work on. But I can do this while playing on the computer as well. In a few minutes I'll go pick up the kid from school. At 4:00ish I'll go help the HS wrestling team. At 5:30 till 7:00 or so it's little kids. You won't hear from me then as I'll be gone. The neat thing about being me is..... I have organized my life in such a way (the office adjoins the living room) that I can multi-task and still have time for other stuff. Moneywise.... we do alright. The kid's college fund is moving right along. And we otherwise make enough to get by. Do the wrestling stuff. Help support a couple of other kids who are a bit needy (long stories). And take our vacations. We do have to forgo Kauai every now though. This other stuff is costly. I'll admit though.... I am hardly working myself to death. I gave the rat race back to the rats but the important stuff gets covered.

**** I also do that when I get tired of the lack of 'understanding' someone has because burdensome and useless to the discussion. *****

I haven't talked about understanding anything - save myself - for quite sometime. I understand myself quite well. I am a bit of a jerk. But a jerk who nonetheless tries to have fun and do good.

*** You have been given moreinformation about the doctrines you supposedly don't think are right...than any regular believing mormon...and you are still kicking around half truths and side sliding...accusations and 'just plain crap' and even throwing out your daughters picture and in your own words admittingyou did it to benefit yourself....well bro....I'm tired of you making up your own substantiations and evaluations which come to naught.... ******

Again, you must be confusing me with somebody else. That part of our conversation left a longtime ago. Try to keep up. Oh, and I am not your bro. The very thought is a bit chilling.

**** I figured you had to be related to low kind of people to be slurping at the gutter the way you do. *****

Ah, a cheap shot from one who supposedly has the values of the one true church. How quaint......

[Cal]

Peace---so let me get this straight. You think that relatives can hangout together in your "spirit world", but not after the resurrection?

Secondly---in an above posting your quoted JS as saying....."but Joseph Smith once taught there was about 5 billion something years in an eternity."

An "eternity" is 5 billion years? 5 billion years has an END! Are you saying eternities have ENDS?

Actually, my definition of eternity is ..... the time it takes two confused minds like Peace and AFD to make sense out of the world they were born into.

[AFDaw]

Originally posted by Cal@Jan 13 2004, 05:26 PM

Actually, my definition of eternity is ..... the time it takes two confused minds like Peace and AFD to make sense out of the world they were born into.

Oh man...aren't you just the regular funny man.

So...where is the answer to my question? Who's avoiding questions now? You practically threw a hissy fit cause you didn't think we were answering your question. If you don't have an answer, just say so Cal. Say "AFD..I don't have an answer" Then I'll leave you alone.

[Guest Starsky]

Peace---so let me get this straight. You think that relatives can hangout together in your "spirit world", but not after the resurrection?

Absolutely. They can even hang with you here on earth. After the resurrection, however, there will be glory of differing intensities...and some of a lower glory won't be able to 'bear' the greater glory...but those of the greater glory will be able to visit the lower levels of glory without any problem...because the lower level of glory is ruled over by the Holy Ghost...which you must know must be present for anyone to bear a greater personage of glory.

D&C 67:

11 For no man has seen God at any time in the flesh, except quickened by the Spirit of God.

12 Neither can any natural man abide the presence of God, neither after the carnal mind.

Secondly---in an above posting your quoted JS as saying....."but Joseph Smith once taught there was about 5 billion something years in an eternity."

An "eternity" is 5 billion years? 5 billion years has an END! Are you saying eternities have ENDS?

Of course there is an end....in the sense there is also a beginning at the same time....like a ring...one eternal round.

Also...you must know about the scripture which explains the word use of 'endless' or eternal....punishment....

D&C 19:

10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—

11 Eternal punishment is God’s punishment.

12 Endless punishment is God’s punishment.

I hope you get what this is teaching ....

Actually, my definition of eternity is ..... the time it takes two confused minds like Peace and AFD to make sense out of the world they were born into.

LOL

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Peace+Jan 12 2004, 11:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Jan 12 2004, 11:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--sgallan@Jan 11 2004, 04:32 AM

Peace -

In your zealotry, and even borderline hatefulness, you have indeed shown me the "bad side" of your religion. But zealots - any faith - are a dime a dozen. They use their religion as a weapon.... so to speak. Suggesting their God is some sort of boogeyman I need to fear. The odd thing is...... generally the LDS don't fall into this 'God as something to be afraid' of trap. I truly get the feeling if you could get a magic wand, or had a theocracy..... you would try to eliminate people like me. Seriously; I see this in you. I find your handle ironic. Peace indeed.

But it's cool. I know many of your faith who show the good side. Including the poster I was conversing with earlier. Typical of any religion.

Oh, and issues. EVERYBODY has issues of some sort. You for example don't seem to like cute kid pictures.....

scott - waiting for Peace (LOL) to go to war.

My sentiments exactly...about yourself. You really don't have very good judgment...infact I would put you in the same catagory as Jackson when it comes to the way you handle your kids.

You use them ....pure and simple....to better your situation, to give yourself satisfaction and identity. Sadly, there are way too many of your kind on the planet.

Real parents look to protect their kids, not dangle them for self-benefit or glorification.

As to my battle stance....some kinds of people just bring that out in me...others don't. So I would have to give you some credit.

As to my moniker for this board....Real Peace comes only by destroying or overcoming evil....My battle is for gaining Peace without surrendering principles of righteousness, or allowing evil to prosper while I on. Simple as that.

Peace, you are being quite judgemental, don'tcha think? Before you place Sgallon in the "same category" as Michael Jackson, (basically, you are saying Sgallon is a possible child molester and a potetially dangerous parent), based on the little you REALLY know about either man, maybe you should ask yourself, "What Would Jesus Do?"

Do you think Jesus would categorically assume that Sgallon is using his kids "pure and simple"?

My my my. . . . . . .

I take exception to your statement that "real parents look to protect their kids". I would suggest that REAL parents wish to teach their children and give them a variety of experience and the opportunity to develope thier talents, not simply "protect" them, and that REAL parents are proud of their childrens achievements! Being proud of your child is very different than using them for "glorification".

Your "undies" are showing, dear, and it's not a pretty picture!

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Peace+Jan 13 2004, 12:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Jan 13 2004, 12:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Behunin@Jan 11 2004, 09:29 AM

Peace,

I love you.  I enjoy your comments so much.  You teach me so much.  You always pick the appropriate scriptures.

Will you come and teach the Gospel Doctrine class in my ward?

LOL ...I was the Gospel Doctrine teacher for a while...the members like me...but the leadership didn't like me because I pretty much didn't like using the book...LOL

But thank you very much for your nice words.

Behunin, do you "love" Peaces comments on her views about Sgallon? Do you think her words were "Christlike"? She basically slandered him and said he was no better than a presumed child molester who is dangling and endangering his child for his own personal gratification.

Would Jesus make this statement based on Sgallons posts?

[Guest bizabra]

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

(Mat 7:1-5)

"Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things."

(Romans 2: 1, 2)

“Do not judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”

(John 7:24)

"He who is without sin among you, let him {be the} first to throw a stone"

(John 8:7)

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

(Colossians 2:16: )

[Guest bizabra]

Peace said: "Time....and part we are talking about clearifies and unifies what we have all said."

Biz: Eh?

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Peace+Jan 13 2004, 01:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Jan 13 2004, 01:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--sgallan@Jan 13 2004, 12:40 PM

Aww, what's wrong Peace. Is this what you do when you cannot defend either yourself, or your version of faith? You've done run out of anything substanative (if you actually have anything substanative) to say, so you've resorted to ad-hominem and nonsensical oblique references? For the record my name is spelled Gallan, not Gallon. I am in Parker Arizona. You couldn't pay me enough to live in Utah.

I can discuss my doctrinal issues of the church with intelligent and informed people. I have proven that over and over again...just as you have proven you don't know how to understand multitask doctrines and principles.

I do "that" when I try and discover why you have so much time as a 'father' to be on a computer all day...when you should either be at work...or are at work....making a living for your family.

I also do that when I get tired of the lack of 'understanding' someone has because burdensome and useless to the discussion.

You have been given moreinformation about the doctrines you supposedly don't think are right...than any regular believing mormon...and you are still kicking around half truths and side sliding...accusations and 'just plain crap' and even throwing out your daughters picture and in your own words admittingyou did it to benefit yourself....well bro....I'm tired of you making up your own substantiations and evaluations which come to naught....

I figured you had to be related to low kind of people to be slurping at the gutter the way you do.

What's a "multitask doctrine" ?

[Guest bizabra]

Peace again: "Of course there is an end....in the sense there is also a beginning at the same time....like a ring...one eternal round."

BIZ: Um, a ring HAS NO END. And it has no beginning. That's why it is used to symbolize eternity. Repeat after me: no end, no beginning, no beginning, no end, no beginning, and on ad infinitum. . . . . . . . . .

[Guest Starsky]

Yet Christ is eternal...and He is the BEGINNING AND THE END.

[Guest Starsky]

Endless is my name....get it?

[Cal]

AFD,

I have to apologize, I didn't see the question you are refering to--I must have missed the posting or read over it too quickly---would you mind telling me what the question was? I wasn't avoiding it. I promise to give you the best answer I can.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by bizabra+Jan 13 2004, 10:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bizabra @ Jan 13 2004, 10:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Peace@Jan 13 2004, 01:16 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--sgallan@Jan 13 2004, 12:40 PM

Aww, what's wrong Peace. Is this what you do when you cannot defend either yourself, or your version of faith? You've done run out of anything substanative (if you actually have anything substanative) to say, so you've resorted to ad-hominem and nonsensical oblique references? For the record my name is spelled Gallan, not Gallon. I am in Parker Arizona. You couldn't pay me enough to live in Utah.

I can discuss my doctrinal issues of the church with intelligent and informed people. I have proven that over and over again...just as you have proven you don't know how to understand multitask doctrines and principles.

I do "that" when I try and discover why you have so much time as a 'father' to be on a computer all day...when you should either be at work...or are at work....making a living for your family.

I also do that when I get tired of the lack of 'understanding' someone has because burdensome and useless to the discussion.

You have been given moreinformation about the doctrines you supposedly don't think are right...than any regular believing mormon...and you are still kicking around half truths and side sliding...accusations and 'just plain crap' and even throwing out your daughters picture and in your own words admittingyou did it to benefit yourself....well bro....I'm tired of you making up your own substantiations and evaluations which come to naught....

I figured you had to be related to low kind of people to be slurping at the gutter the way you do.

What's a "multitask doctrine" ?

What's a "multitask doctrine"  ?

The doctrine of exaltation. It doesn't just happen in a *wink*. It is a process on several different levels through several different dimensions of time.

[AFDaw]

Originally posted by AFDaw@Jan 12 2004, 07:33 PM

Because unlike many other church's, we don't care what other's believe. We don't sit in church and say "Hey..do the Baptist down the street believe in baptism by immersion?" 11th Article of Faith. Families are a huge part of our faith, why wouldn't we advertise it? So what if other church's believe it too, we're saying "SO DO WE!"

My question to you is why if "everyone" believes it too, why do they marry "til death do you part?"

There ya go.

[Cal]

Peace---I find your use of the word "eternity" massively confusing. Why use a word whose common meaning is "without end" and use it in a way that no person familiar with the proper use of the word would understand. All I can say is you must worship a God who uses "smoke and mirrors" to communicate with his children.

Regarding the "ring" analogy---just where DOES a ring begin if it is NOT endless as you imply? Actually, I find all this pure non-sense. It has no real meaning to anyone but the confused mind of Joseph Smith.

Let's say that you are correct about after the ressurrection, does it say anywhere in the scriptures that families can't hang out together within the kingdoms they dwell in according to your interpretation of heaven? After all, if someone and his family chose not to join the LDS church and not get married in the mormon temple, but are otherwise good, honorable people, according to LDS people, they will all be in the Terrestrial kingdom anyway right? So they can all hangout together and be one big happy family right?

Also, lets say I'm the only person in my whole family that choses to join the mormon church (even with all the baptism for the dead stuff), that means that my whole family can be together in the Terretrial kingdom (assuming again that they are good people) and here I am stuck in the Celestial kingdom with nothing to do but make babies and create solar systems, and meanwhile, my whole family is having a great time, partying it up in the Terrestrial, and sending me letters about what a good time they are having without me right?

[AFDaw]

Let me know when you're going to take the topic serious Cal and I'll consider replying.

[Guest Starsky]

Peace---I find your use of the word "eternity" massively confusing. Why use a word whose common meaning is "without end" and use it in a way that no person familiar with the proper use of the word would understand. All I can say is you must worship a God who uses "smoke and mirrors" to communicate with his children.

It isn't something you can understand without the Spirit. Seriously...it is 'high' knowledge and understanding.

Regarding the "ring" analogy---just where DOES a ring begin if it is NOT endless as you imply? Actually, I find all this pure non-sense. It has no real meaning to anyone but the confused mind of Joseph Smith.

Again...you won't understand it without some of the knowledge gained in the temple coupled with the Spirit..

Let's say that you are correct about after the ressurrection, does it say anywhere in the scriptures that families can't hang out together within the kingdoms they dwell in according to your interpretation of heaven? After all, if someone and his family chose not to join the LDS church and not get married in the mormon temple, but are otherwise good, honorable people, according to LDS people, they will all be in the Terrestrial kingdom anyway right? So they can all hangout together and be one big happy family right?

I already taught you the 'principle' of blessings. Do you give your kids rewards when they disobey you?

Also, lets say I'm the only person in my whole family that choses to join the mormon church (even with all the baptism for the dead stuff), that means that my whole family can be together in the Terretrial kingdom (assuming again that they are good people) and here I am stuck in the Celestial kingdom with nothing to do but make babies and create solar systems, and meanwhile, my whole family is having a great time, partying it up in the Terrestrial, and sending me letters about what a good time they are having without me right?

Matt. 12:

46 ¶ While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Also Lukes rendition of this same event and doctrine:

19 Then came to him his mother and his brethren, and could not come at him for the press.

20 And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.

21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

[Behunin]

Originally posted by bizabra@Jan 13 2004, 11:34 PM

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

(Mat 7:1-5)

"Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things."

(Romans 2: 1, 2)

“Do not judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”

(John 7:24)

"He who is without sin among you, let him {be the} first to throw a stone"

(John 8:7)

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

(Colossians 2:16: )

Are you following the advise of these scriptures? Is this how you treat others, including those on this message board?

[Behunin]

Originally posted by bizabra@Jan 13 2004, 11:09 PM

Your "undies" are showing, dear, and it's not a pretty picture!

This statement about Peace's "undies" does not fit with the scriptures you quoted.

If you really believed what you quoted in those scriptures, you wouldn't judge Peace, underwear, or anything or anyone eles.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Behunin+Jan 14 2004, 09:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Behunin @ Jan 14 2004, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bizabra@Jan 13 2004, 11:34 PM

Judge not, that ye be not judged. 

   

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 

   

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 

   

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye? 

   

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. 

(Mat 7:1-5) 

"Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things."

(Romans 2: 1, 2)

“Do not judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”

(John 7:24)

"He who is without sin among you, let him {be the} first to throw a stone"

(John 8:7)

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

(Colossians 2:16: )

Are you following the advise of these scriptures? Is this how you treat others, including those on this message board?

Yes, I do try. I'm not always successful, considering that I AM human and an emotional beastie. But YES, I do try to treat others the way I wish to be treated and allow them to live their lives they way THEY see fit to live them. I realize I can't see the world as other see it, and that my experiences are not theirs, and vice versa. I certainly want to right to live my life free from hasty and mistaken judgements about me! Don't you?

This is an internet site however, and we are discoursing on an emotional topic, so it is understandible that sometimes folks say things that they would not say if they were talking face to face with an actual person.

I don't believe Peace would ever say what she did to Sgallon if he was sitting next to her on an airpane and took out his pics of his daughter and showed them off. She would likely have said something nice and complimentary, don'tcha think?