What does it matter? - pun intended!!!

[Traveler]

The initial concept of the Big Bang theory revolved around the idea that all mater and energy that comprises our universe was once held in a supermassive singularity or black hole that in one “moment” reached a “critical” mass and blew up.  Initial calculations were minimal matter (about the equivalent of a football) as we understand matter would be all that was needed – the rest would be suspended potential energy and light.  There are several problems such as: From what was stuff coming from in order for the singularity to reach critical mass.  And why dose our universe have many magnitudes of stuff that would have caused thousands of Big Bangs.  And finely what happened to all the energy that escapes when the increasing stuff passes the event horizon of the singularity?

 

But before we get too far off on a tangent trying to discuss applications of the Big Bang theory – there are other new discoveries directly affecting our understanding “matter” going on that is in essence changing everything.  Perhaps the most significant is the definite discovery of the Higgs Boson.  I have long speculated that bosons are particles of “spirit matter”.   The problem that I have had defending this notion is that a sufficient understanding of “spiritual concepts” is regretfully missing from my scientific colleagues and likewise a sufficient understanding of particle physics (in particular fermions verses bosons) is regretfully missing from my religious friends.   For example Seminary likes to break things down between the physical and spiritual as – “pure” and “course” matter.  Fermions and bosons lend themselves perfectly to this order matter differentiation – but Seminary will not even consider the possibility – let alone the evidence.  But perhaps the problem is with me and my inability to better understand what she is arguing with her notions of “pure” and “course” matter.

 

It does appear to me that bosons meet every criteria of “spirit” matter empirically suggested in ancient scripture as well as modern revelation.  I believe the problem is in sufficient understanding in the concepts of quantum particle physics as well as appreciation and respect for divine revelation.  This brings us back to the Higgs boson.  The first understanding or concept is that a boson has no mass and can only exist at the speed of light.  If a boson is “slowed down” then it will abandon it matter characteristics and exist only as energy.  Anyway that is the essence of quantum theory but this slow down change has never been demonstrated. 

 

The Higgs boson is unique first because it has no mass but second is because without the boson particle present in matter – such matter cannot have mass.   But mass itself is very elusive.  Without mass our universe would not exist as we know it.  But mass alters space time – it changes dimensional space.  In essence the boson particle is responsible for time, dimensional space and mass – and I have only scratched the surface of something very deep that is going on.  In the scientific community the Higgs boson is known as the g-d particle and I do not think very many religious believers appreciate the significance of that handle.

 

I believe the problem lies in the religious belief that G-d is so far above man and so much more intelligent that man is incapable of divine understanding by nature; who and what we really are.  But the LDS concept is unique and different in that man is the exact same species of G-d and created for the very purpose of being like him and in every way the image and likeness of him.  We should understand G-d and his works – and for this purpose are we scient beings with agency able to know good from evil.  Because many believe man to be so far from G-d that it is impossible for man to understand any divine principle.  Therefore if man can discover and understand something – by definition it cannot be divine but is flaw in what is called in scripture the “natural man”. I do not know how to deal with this faulty logic of a G-d of the gaps of human understanding; except to point out that if such a G-d is diminished and less appreciated in the light of truth and why would anyone want to believe a G-d whose understanding is diminished by truth.  Why not believe in a G-d whose brilliance, might and power is only greater appreciated with truth – especially any truth we as humans can comprehend?

Edited November 10, 2014 by Traveler

[Seminarysnoozer]

Those who have eternal perspectives and see the "big picture" have statements such as these; Mosiah 4; " 2 And they had viewed themselves in their own carnal state, even less than the dust of the earth. And they all cried aloud with one voice, saying: O have mercy, and apply the atoning blood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be purified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who created heaven and earth, and all things; who shall come down among the children of men."

King Benjamin stated; "always retain in remembrance, the greatness of God, and your own nothingness."

Enoch stated; "Were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations."

 

President Uchtdorf said; "

Years later, on the top of a distant mountain, far removed from the splendor and magnificence of mighty Egypt, Moses stood in the presence of God and spoke to Him face to face as a man speaks with his friend.¹ During the course of that visitation, God showed Moses the workmanship of His hands, granting him a glimpse of His work and glory. When the vision ended, Moses fell to the earth for the space of many hours. When his strength finally returned, he realized something that, in all his years in Pharaoh’s court, had never occurred to him before.

“I know,” he said, “that man is nothing.”²

We Are Less Than We Suppose

The more we learn about the universe, the more we understand—at least in a small part—what Moses knew. The universe is so large, mysterious, and glorious that it is incomprehensible to the human mind. “Worlds without number have I created,” God said to Moses.³ The wonders of the night sky are a beautiful testimony of that truth."

 

President Uchtdorf warned against believing that we could reach the heights of God as a man (or woman); "Disciples of Jesus Christ understand that compared to eternity, our existence in this mortal sphere is only “a small moment” in space and time.¹⁰ They know that a person’s true value has little to do with what the world holds in high esteem. They know you could pile up the accumulated currency of the entire world and it could not buy a loaf of bread in the economy of heaven. Those who will “inherit the kingdom of God”¹¹ are those who become “as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love.”¹² “For every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.”¹³ Such disciples understand also “that when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God.”

Edited November 10, 2014 by Seminarysnoozer

[Traveler]

Those who have eternal perspectives and see the "big picture" have statements such as these; Mosiah 4; " 2 And they had viewed themselves in their own carnal state, even less than the dust of the earth. And they all cried aloud with one voice, saying: O have mercy, and apply the atoning blood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be purified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who created heaven and earth, and all things; who shall come down among the children of men."

King Benjamin stated; "always retain in remembrance, the greatness of God, and your own nothingness."

Enoch stated; "Were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations."

 

President Uchtdorf said; "

Years later, on the top of a distant mountain, far removed from the splendor and magnificence of mighty Egypt, Moses stood in the presence of God and spoke to Him face to face as a man speaks with his friend.¹ During the course of that visitation, God showed Moses the workmanship of His hands, granting him a glimpse of His work and glory. When the vision ended, Moses fell to the earth for the space of many hours. When his strength finally returned, he realized something that, in all his years in Pharaoh’s court, had never occurred to him before.

“I know,” he said, “that man is nothing.”²

We Are Less Than We Suppose

The more we learn about the universe, the more we understand—at least in a small part—what Moses knew. The universe is so large, mysterious, and glorious that it is incomprehensible to the human mind. “Worlds without number have I created,” God said to Moses.³ The wonders of the night sky are a beautiful testimony of that truth."

 

President Uchtdorf warned against believing that we could reach the heights of God as a man (or woman); "Disciples of Jesus Christ understand that compared to eternity, our existence in this mortal sphere is only “a small moment” in space and time.¹⁰ They know that a person’s true value has little to do with what the world holds in high esteem. They know you could pile up the accumulated currency of the entire world and it could not buy a loaf of bread in the economy of heaven. Those who will “inherit the kingdom of God”¹¹ are those who become “as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love.”¹² “For every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.”¹³ Such disciples understand also “that when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God.”

 

So your stand is - since we cannot - we should not (it is immoral) even strive to understand G-d or his creations?  What can we (worthless dust) believe that is true?  Why does G-d tell us anything if we cannot in truth comprehend it in this "small moment"?

 

And my last question - how can you or anyone else, claim to {have eternal perspectives and see the "big picture"} based on your arguments?  -- without exalting yourself and not humbling yourself?

[Seminarysnoozer]

So your stand is - since we cannot - we should not (it is immoral) even strive to understand G-d or his creations?  What can we (worthless dust) believe that is true?  Why does G-d tell us anything if we cannot in truth comprehend it in this "small moment"?

 

And my last question - how can you or anyone else, claim to {have eternal perspectives and see the "big picture"} based on your arguments?  -- without exalting yourself and not humbling yourself?

It is all about how it is received.  How things are received is dependent on purpose.  If one has an eye single to the glory of God then God can provide answers to issues that would advance His cause.  If it is done in the spirit of advancing the status of man, man is great, lets build a tower to reach God type-of-attitude, then it is wrong.  Spiritual things are learned spiritually, temporal things are learned in temporal ways. Man cannot reach God without divine intervention, that is what is meant by man is nothing. The path to God is reached in humility as to our own nothingness.

 

How much of what you are talking about do you think we already learned before coming here in the eons and eons we had in the presence of God learning all things until we were fully matured and ready to move onto the next step?

 

How much of what you learned before coming here will flood back into your mind after this second estate test is over?

 

Don't you imagine that we learned all the natural sciences before coming here, we learned way more than the sum total of what man could ever learn?  All the advancements of man, as great as they may seem are like when my Preschooler comes home having written her name (or even less than that) compared to one with advanced degrees.

 

This isn't to say we shouldn't study all things and advance our knowledge as much as we can.  But understand the purpose of those things.  It isn't to amass knowledge because we have already learned all these things in the life before and it will all come back to us but it is in the process of learning to depend on the Lord in humility that the lessons are learned.  Remember the scripture in D&C 130 says; " 19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come."  In other words, the lessons learned are via the effect of learning through dilligence and obedience, learning those skills that translates to the advantage in the next life.  If someone learns quantum physics in this life without being obedient or dilligent to the Lord then it is not to their advantage in the next life. Why? because they really didn't learn anything they didn't already learn in the pre-mortal life.

[PolarVortex]

Remember that almost all of the atoms in your body have been here on Earth for billions of years.  They were here when Jesus walked the earth.  When Jesus walked on water, a few of the water molecules he stepped on are in your body now.  In high school we were taught that every time we breathe in, we are inhaling a few atoms that Julius Caesar exhaled in his last breath.  And the atoms in our bodies will be here billions of years from now, when the rotation of the Earth has slowed to a crawl and the sun starts to burn out.  The matter in matter isn't the matter, it's how it's organized.