Elphaba Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 CHARLOTTE, North Carolina (CNN) -- When polygamous sect leader Warren Jeffs appeared in a Las Vegas courtroom last August, Kathy Jo Nicholson, a former member of Jeffs' sect, felt fearful even though she was only watching him on television.Speaking of Warren Jeffs:"He beat the kids there. He humiliated the kids there. And as time went on and I wasn't so devoted to being perfect and sweet, he held me up as an example and humiliated me," she said. Jeffs would force children -- Nicholson included -- to stand on a chair in front of the class and flex their buttocks muscles, according to Nicholson. She doesn't know how he came upon this particular punishment."As I got more and more rebellious, he would come up behind me while I was in a group and seize me by the back of the neck and lean down and whisper in my ear, 'Are you keeping sweet or do you need to be punished?' " she said.Jeffs wrote a letter to Nicholson's parents saying that he was concerned about her and a friend, because "when around boys, and even younger boys, they would outwardly show their cuteness, seemingly to have the younger boys relate their cute behavior to older boys."Woman Leaves PolygamayElphaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 Yeah, and so what? Is his freakishness related to polygamy or was he just a freak (like millions of other men and women in the USA) in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKairos Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 Precisely. He was a wacko and then sought polygamy as a means to be a wacko with lots and lots of women. Being with lots and lots of women didn't turn him into a wacko, nor does polygamy in and of itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted August 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 Yeah, and so what? Is his freakishness related to polygamy or was he just a freak (like millions of other men and women in the USA) in the first place?Kathy Jo Nicholson wrote the story of her growing up in the FLDS polygamous community. Part of her story includes Jeff's being abusive to her, so obviously she is going to write about him. But nowhere does she contend polygamy caused him to become abusive.Once again you infer a fact where none was implied. It really gets tiresome that you do this.Additionally, Warren Jeffs was born and raised in the FLDS community. He took over leadership from his father, Rulon Jeffs, when he died. He did not seek out polygamy. He was raised in it. (I know you didnt say this. I'm just putting it all in one post.) Don't jump to conclusions that were never made in the first place.Elphaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskagain Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 <div class='quotemain'>Yeah, and so what? Is his freakishness related to polygamy or was he just a freak (like millions of other men and women in the USA) in the first place?Once again you infer a fact where none was implied. It really gets tiresome that you do this.. .. Don't jump to conclusions that were never made in the first place.ElphabaElphaba, The entire article is a suggestion that the abusive behaviour is the result of polygamous lifestyle. That's the point. If polygamy wasn't involved, the article would never have been written, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted August 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 <div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, and so what? Is his freakishness related to polygamy or was he just a freak (like millions of other men and women in the USA) in the first place?Once again you infer a fact where none was implied. It really gets tiresome that you do this.. .. Don't jump to conclusions that were never made in the first place.ElphabaElphaba, The entire article is a suggestion that the abusive behaviour is the result of polygamous lifestyle. That's the point. If polygamy wasn't involved, the article would never have been written, IMO.Which abusive behavior? The only abusive behavior she describes about Jeffs is what happens in the classroom. She never mentions his polygamous behavior. CK and Fiannin make the erroneous conection that she (and I) are blaming polygamy for his abusive behavior, which neither of us have done.I realize the article was about polygamy. But nowhere did it state Jeffs was abusive because he was a polygamist. In fact, it didn't refer to his specific polygamous behaviors at all, only that he was the leader, and that he was in jail for marrying a 19 year-old to a 13-year-old (not sure if I have those specifics correct).All three of you have a point. No, the article wouldn't have been written if she hadn't been a polygamist. However, the abuse she describes happens in millions of homes that are not polygamous. Please don't get the impression I think the polygamy the FLDS practice is acceptable. I don't. However, I have nothing against polygamy when practiced among consenting adults and do not believe polygamy, in and of itself, causes abusive behavior.Elphaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 Okay, I get the point -- it's not polygamy that is in question here. Jeffs is a skinny, white male who wears glasses and that is the central point of the article being published. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted August 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 Okay, I get the point -- it's not polygamy that is in question here. Jeffs is a skinny, white male who wears glasses and that is the central point of the article being published. Fiannin, please stop being obtuse.The story is about Kathi Jo and her experience in polygamy. Warren Jeffs is merely a character in her story, although because he is such an odious public figure he seems larger. But he's not.I can see how this is partly my fault because of the paragraphs I chose to show when I started the thread. They are compelling, but they are not the gist of the story. So mea culpa on that one.Sheesh, you're upset when you think I am making him the main figure, and then you're upset when I'm not. He is not the main character in the story. Kathy Jo is.Now do you get the point?Elphaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 Yeah, Renfield is actually the main person of interest in Bram Stoker's Dracula but everybody just assumes it's a story about a vampire. Sorry, can't resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted August 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 Yeah, Renfield is actually the main person of interest in Bram Stoker's Dracula but everybody just assumes it's a story about a vampire.Sorry, can't resist. Good one! Elphaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKairos Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Shmeck, I get most of my exercise by pushing my luck and jumping to conclusions. Ain't no way no how I'm givin' up one of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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