USNationalist Posted January 21, 2004 Report Posted January 21, 2004 Is there any mention of horses in the BoM? If there are, I thought there were no horses in the americas until the spanish brought them over. Quote
Guest curvette Posted January 21, 2004 Report Posted January 21, 2004 Yes, horses are mentioned in the Book of Mormon. A species of horse did exist in the Americas, but no remains have been found of bones from Pre Columbian times that date any later than the ice age. Of course that doesn't mean they aren't there, but none to date have been found. Quote
Guest bat Posted January 21, 2004 Report Posted January 21, 2004 Yes they have. Horses were really Fossilized Tyrannasaurus Rex bones that pulled chariots. That's just about as plausible as the Tapir and deer theories, isn't it? Quote
Guest TheProudDuck Posted January 21, 2004 Report Posted January 21, 2004 Of course there were horses in ancient America. Otherwise, the pursuit phase of combat necessary for the battles of annihilation in the Book of Mormon couldn't have happened. You can't annihilate an enemy army without cavalry. Quote
Traveler Posted January 21, 2004 Report Posted January 21, 2004 There are horses mentioned in the Book of Mormon and there are breeds of horses native to the Americas. The native horses are quite small and are not big enough to ride. An example are the native horses of the grand canyon. Interesting there is no mention of horses in the Book of Mormon except for pulling carts and such. No mention of horses being ridden. Of course none of this proves anything for those that require such prof. The Traveler Quote
Guest bat Posted January 22, 2004 Report Posted January 22, 2004 Originally posted by Traveler@Jan 21 2004, 04:51 PM There are horses mentioned in the Book of Mormon and there are breeds of horses native to the Americas. The native horses are quite small and are not big enough to ride. An example are the native horses of the grand canyon. Interesting there is no mention of horses in the Book of Mormon except for pulling carts and such. No mention of horses being ridden. Of course none of this proves anything for those that require such prof.The Traveler *cough*carbon dating*cough* Quote
Guest antishock82003 Posted January 22, 2004 Report Posted January 22, 2004 A Poem, by Antius Shockius 8A Horse is a Horse of course,Unless it is a Tapir.Then it may be a Deer my Dear,THAT you can believe without Fear.But a Tapir is more like a Pig,or maybe a Pig is like a Deer,Unless the Horse is a Moose and a Pig is really the Deer.If you're as confused as I you need not worry or fear,FARMS is here to tell you my Dear,that a Horse is really a Tapir. Quote
Mark Posted January 22, 2004 Report Posted January 22, 2004 Hi, All the horses were in heaven eating celestial vegtables, if you don't believe me ask Orson Pratt. John 1:12 Quote
Guest bat Posted January 22, 2004 Report Posted January 22, 2004 Originally posted by Mark@Jan 21 2004, 07:27 PM Hi, All the horses were in heaven eating celestial vegtables, if you don't believe me ask Orson Pratt.John 1:12 Wasn't it Orson Pratt that taught that plants have spirits? Quote
Guest antishock82003 Posted January 22, 2004 Report Posted January 22, 2004 All things were made spiritually before they were made temporally. Isn't that deep? Quote
Cal Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Jan 21 2004, 04:47 PM Of course there were horses in ancient America. Otherwise, the pursuit phase of combat necessary for the battles of annihilation in the Book of Mormon couldn't have happened. You can't annihilate an enemy army without cavalry. Now, PD, that is too tongue in cheek, even for you! Quote
Cal Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 Originally posted by Traveler@Jan 21 2004, 04:51 PM There are horses mentioned in the Book of Mormon and there are breeds of horses native to the Americas. The native horses are quite small and are not big enough to ride. An example are the native horses of the grand canyon. Interesting there is no mention of horses in the Book of Mormon except for pulling carts and such. No mention of horses being ridden. Of course none of this proves anything for those that require such prof.The Traveler Traveler--now, don't you think you are being a bit disingenuous. The BoM is supposed to be a Second Witness of Christ. It's supposed to CONVINCE the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ. This sounds like somebody has a lot of respect for PROOF, and not just the spiritual kind. After all, the BoM is supposed to be a LITERAL history, not just some etherial spiritual thing. Jesus is supposed to have FACTUALLY visited the ancient americans and that is supposed to be convincing proof of something.So, how can you say that it doesn't matter that the issue of the REAL existance of horses is not important. HOw is the BoM supposed to convince us of anything if it can't even get the simplest things right, like the existance or non-exisitance of horses in ancient america (circa 600 BCE to 400 CE)? Quote
Paul Osborne Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 I believe that horses existed in America before the Spaniards showed up. I believe the Book of Mormon is true and my faith is assured whether there is physical evidence or not. Paul O Quote
Paul Osborne Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 Originally posted by antishock82003@Jan 21 2004, 07:09 PM A Poem, by Antius Shockius 8A Horse is a Horse of course,Unless it is a Tapir.Then it may be a Deer my Dear,THAT you can believe without Fear.But a Tapir is more like a Pig,or maybe a Pig is like a Deer,Unless the Horse is a Moose and a Pig is really the Deer.If you're as confused as I you need not worry or fear,FARMS is here to tell you my Dear,that a Horse is really a Tapir. FARMS can shove it where the sun doesn't shine or where horses don't trod!I believe in real horses. I have faith. :) Paul O Quote
Guest bat Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 I believe in the purple dragon that lives in my garage. I hope he's not too cold. Quote
Paul Osborne Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 Originally posted by bat@Jan 22 2004, 07:56 PM I believe in the purple dragon that lives in my garage. I hope he's not too cold. Life sure is a kick in the pants!!Paul O Quote
Guest TheProudDuck Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 Originally posted by Cal+Jan 22 2004, 06:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Jan 22 2004, 06:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--TheProudDuck@Jan 21 2004, 04:47 PM Of course there were horses in ancient America. Otherwise, the pursuit phase of combat necessary for the battles of annihilation in the Book of Mormon couldn't have happened. You can't annihilate an enemy army without cavalry. Now, PD, that is too tongue in cheek, even for you! Keep 'em guessing, I always say. Quote
Guest Starsky Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 The BoM is supposed to be a Second Witness of Christ. It's supposed to CONVINCE the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ. ABSOLUTELY! This is the point and purpose of the BofM....not to prove or disprove the existence of horses on the American continent.Has anyone considered the Hagoth thing? Maybe he shipped in horses...and after a time they died off.....After all the BofM does cover 1000 years.... LOLGood grief we are trying to see into the past through the present...that just doesn't work...believe me. Quote
USNationalist Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Posted January 23, 2004 What about steel? i dont think they had that alloy back then. i think ive heard of the BoM mentioning steel... whats the deal there? does it? did steel exsist then? is there any evidence of steel (like been dug up or somthing) in the south americas? Quote
Guest Starsky Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 Originally posted by USNationalist@Jan 22 2004, 10:18 PM What about steel? i dont think they had that alloy back then. i think ive heard of the BoM mentioning steel... whats the deal there? does it? did steel exsist then? is there any evidence of steel (like been dug up or somthing) in the south americas? Again....did the people in the BofM know all the different knowledge of different kinds of metals?I call pot metal steel ...all the time, and my husband corrects me....I call ceramic tile, stone. My husband likes to hand me a small 'stone' and correct my misusage of things like that.Do we expect these men to be perfect (physically he-men, mental geniuses, etc?) Did not the Lord say many times that he would use the weak things of the earth to do His work so that the wicked would stumble??1 Cor. 1: 27 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; Quote
Guest bat Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 Originally posted by Peace+Jan 22 2004, 10:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Jan 22 2004, 10:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--USNationalist@Jan 22 2004, 10:18 PM What about steel? i dont think they had that alloy back then. i think ive heard of the BoM mentioning steel... whats the deal there? does it? did steel exsist then? is there any evidence of steel (like been dug up or somthing) in the south americas? Again....did the people in the BofM know all the different knowledge of different kinds of metals?I call pot metal steel ...all the time, and my husband corrects me....I call ceramic tile, stone. My husband likes to hand me a small 'stone' and correct my misusage of things like that.Do we expect these men to be perfect (physically he-men, mental geniuses, etc?) Did not the Lord say many times that he would use the weak things of the earth to do His work so that the wicked would stumble??1 Cor. 1: 27 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; Was that a relevant answer to the question? Quote
Paul Osborne Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 Originally posted by USNationalist@Jan 22 2004, 10:18 PM What about steel? i dont think they had that alloy back then. i think ive heard of the BoM mentioning steel... whats the deal there? does it? did steel exsist then? is there any evidence of steel (like been dug up or somthing) in the south americas? The peoples of the Bible and the era from which the Nephites came knew all about metals and how to form them out of ore. They knew the difference between iron, steel, and copper-- just as we do today. Here are just three examples:1. Ezra 8: 27 Also twenty basons of gold, of a thousand drams; and two vessels of fine copper, precious as gold.2. Jer. 15: 12 Shall iron break the northern iron and the steel?3. Ps. 18: 34 He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.Nephi was no dummy and neither was Mormon or Moroni. They knew how to work ore and also knew the difference between iron and steel as Adam knew the difference between good and evil once he ate the fruit. The Nephites were highly developed and industrious in their arts. Steel was steel and iron was iron. The Book of Mormon is the plainest book that God ever caused to be written. I am saddened that some LDS apologists have turned it into a circus act when they deny metal swords and swift horses in which men rode upon. I sure don’t need anyone from FARMS to tell me that steel is not steel and thus steal my understanding away and cut at my testimony of God’s precious book. Away with the faithless scholars who confuse the members of the Church and cause the critics to laugh at us Let the record speak for itself:1 Ne. 18: 25 And we did find all manner of ore, both of gold, and of silver, and of copper.2 Ne. 5: 15 work in all manner of wood, and of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious ores, which were in great abundanceJarom 1: 8 iron and copper, and brass and steel, making all manner of tools of every kind to till the ground, and weapons of warMosiah 8: 10 breastplates, which are large, and they are of brass and of copperMosiah 11: 8 all manner of precious things, of gold, and of silver, and of iron, and of brass, and of ziff, and of copperPaul O Quote
Guest Starsky Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 Originally posted by bat+Jan 22 2004, 11:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bat @ Jan 22 2004, 11:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -Peace@Jan 22 2004, 10:24 PM <!--QuoteBegin--USNationalist@Jan 22 2004, 10:18 PM What about steel? i dont think they had that alloy back then. i think ive heard of the BoM mentioning steel... whats the deal there? does it? did steel exsist then? is there any evidence of steel (like been dug up or somthing) in the south americas? Again....did the people in the BofM know all the different knowledge of different kinds of metals?I call pot metal steel ...all the time, and my husband corrects me....I call ceramic tile, stone. My husband likes to hand me a small 'stone' and correct my misusage of things like that.Do we expect these men to be perfect (physically he-men, mental geniuses, etc?) Did not the Lord say many times that he would use the weak things of the earth to do His work so that the wicked would stumble??1 Cor. 1: 27 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; Was that a relevant answer to the question? ABSOLUTELY! B) Quote
Traveler Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 Originally posted by Paul Osborne@Jan 23 2004, 06:46 AM [I am saddened that some LDS apologists have turned it into a circus act when they deny metal swords and swift horses in which men rode upon. Let the record speak for itself:Paul O I missed your reference to swift horses in which men rode upon. Thank you The Traveler Quote
Traveler Posted January 23, 2004 Report Posted January 23, 2004 Originally posted by Cal+Jan 22 2004, 06:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Jan 22 2004, 06:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Traveler@Jan 21 2004, 04:51 PM There are horses mentioned in the Book of Mormon and there are breeds of horses native to the Americas. The native horses are quite small and are not big enough to ride. An example are the native horses of the grand canyon. Interesting there is no mention of horses in the Book of Mormon except for pulling carts and such. No mention of horses being ridden. Of course none of this proves anything for those that require such prof.The Traveler Traveler--now, don't you think you are being a bit disingenuous. The BoM is supposed to be a Second Witness of Christ. It's supposed to CONVINCE the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ. This sounds like somebody has a lot of respect for PROOF, and not just the spiritual kind. After all, the BoM is supposed to be a LITERAL history, not just some etherial spiritual thing. Jesus is supposed to have FACTUALLY visited the ancient americans and that is supposed to be convincing proof of something.So, how can you say that it doesn't matter that the issue of the REAL existance of horses is not important. HOw is the BoM supposed to convince us of anything if it can't even get the simplest things right, like the existance or non-exisitance of horses in ancient america (circa 600 BCE to 400 CE)? Thank you Cal for your post - It proves exactly what I posted. Even though there are horses known to be native to Americas and even though I pointed it out you are off making a big deal because the horses are not the breed you want. Perhaps if you would provide me with a reference in to Book of Mormon that indicates that the breed of horses was large enough to ride you may have a point.The Traveler Quote
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