The Great Secret Of G-dliness.

[Elphaba]

I hoped you would understand that in 1963 the total cost to end poverty was 1.9% of the GNP. Your claim was that poverty is less today - we are spending 7% of our GNP on poverty in the year 2000. <snip>

I think you are the most obtuse poster I have ever had a discussion with. You have already provided this information and I have already responded to it.

Perhaps you would be so kind to tell me what part of poverty you have found to be in decline during the last 50 years. And from where you get your information. The Democrats – running for president? And if poverty is in decline – why do Democrats want to increase spending?

Asked and answered.

Elphaba

[Traveler]

<div class='quotemain'>I hoped you would understand that in 1963 the total cost to end poverty was 1.9% of the GNP. Your claim was that poverty is less today - we are spending 7% of our GNP on poverty in the year 2000. <snip>

I think you are the most obtuse poster I have ever had a discussion with. You have already provided this information and I have already responded to it.

Perhaps you would be so kind to tell me what part of poverty you have found to be in decline during the last 50 years. And from where you get your information. The Democrats – running for president? And if poverty is in decline – why do Democrats want to increase spending?

Asked and answered.

Elphaba

You are the most ignorant and arrogant poster I have ever encountered – You twist truth, think your opinion is more valuable than facts, refused to back specifics of what you post with anything of substance – maybe a biased and bigoted opinion, you distort history (especially if it does not fit your palpably absurd ideas)

All I asked is for the Stats that demonstrates that poverty had decreased – All it get is this – personal attacks and criticism?

You did previously provide the following:

You are fixated on what the government spends on poverty programs. I made no claims about government spending. The only claim I made was that poverty had declined in the last fifty years, and it has. All of the above information is irrelevant to any claims I made.

And so I asked – what is relevant to you claims – and where is the supporting data? Are there fewer single parent familes? Less children requiring assistance (health care insurance)? Less poor that need help from someone? What? (Concerning government spending; have you not ever posted that government programs have been cut hurting someone poor in need that you personally know? - Now, you think you never made such a claim revelant to government spending and poverty? Do you not remember your own posts?)

You have answered nothing - all you have said is that there is less poverty. Perhaps I should ask - what in your mind qualifies as poverty? And please if you can - at least try to be specific - and if possible, back your opinion with something other than meaningless rhetoric and personal attacts.

You do not have to answer - I think we are done.

The Traveler

[Alaskagain]

I have not read this entire thread. I just wanted to respond to this, and only this. :

. . . You can't help someone in poverty if you are living in poverty as well, . . . .

Elphaba

I beg to differ.

I am reminded of a Mother Teresa story of handing out a bag of rice to a poor widowed mother, who immediately took the bag of rice to her neighbor, because she knew there was no food in their house.

Poverty-stricken neighbors help each other out all the time.

After a major and devastating hurricane, I helped collect relief money in an office. The CEO gave $10. A single mom of 3 working a clerk's position gave $80. We went back to her, and said, no we want you to keep this, just give $10." She said "Right now, I have it to give. I have been helped out a lot, such as at Christmas for my kids. Those people don't have anything. We have a roof, and clothing, and food in the pantry. I want to give it."

She got together with a couple of neighbors and they took accounting courses and watched each other's kids while they educated themselves about money - budgeting, banking, investing. None of the three live in poverty today.

An exception to the rule? Maybe.

Poverty can be temporary, or it can be a permanent condition. Attitude has a lot to do with it - not saying that such things as famine and drought, environmentally-caused poverty can be cured with attitude. But many people accept temporary circumstance as a permanent condition.

My only point - you can live in poverty and help those around you. There is nothing "superior" or "inferior" about helping.

[Traveler]

I have not read this entire thread. I just wanted to respond to this, and only this. :

<div class='quotemain'>

. . . You can't help someone in poverty if you are living in poverty as well, . . . .

Elphaba

I beg to differ.

I am reminded of a Mother Teresa story of handing out a bag of rice to a poor widowed mother, who immediately took the bag of rice to her neighbor, because she knew there was no food in their house.

Poverty-stricken neighbors help each other out all the time.

After a major and devastating hurricane, I helped collect relief money in an office. The CEO gave $10. A single mom of 3 working a clerk's position gave $80. We went back to her, and said, no we want you to keep this, just give $10." She said "Right now, I have it to give. I have been helped out a lot, such as at Christmas for my kids. Those people don't have anything. We have a roof, and clothing, and food in the pantry. I want to give it."

She got together with a couple of neighbors and they took accounting courses and watched each other's kids while they educated themselves about money - budgeting, banking, investing. None of the three live in poverty today.

An exception to the rule? Maybe.

Poverty can be temporary, or it can be a permanent condition. Attitude has a lot to do with it - not saying that such things as famine and drought, environmentally-caused poverty can be cured with attitude. But many people accept temporary circumstance as a permanent condition.

My only point - you can live in poverty and help those around you. There is nothing "superior" or "inferior" about helping.

Thank you

The Traveler

[Alaskagain]

I have now had time to go back and read this entire thread.

My friend, Ms Manners, is appalled and has totally succumbed to an episode of "the vapors".

[Traveler]

The point that was lost is that we are all weak. We are all unprofitable servants that require help. But once we realize that we can as the Father and the Son have done – that is sacrifice for the benefit of others, we become strong and powerful so that through our sacrifice and the sacrifice of Christ we become strong and powerful in the resurrection – Even as Christ was born weak and suffered all that can be brought upon the weak – he demonstrated how such that is weak becomes mighty, strong and powerful – even over death.

The Traveler

[Alaskagain]

Thank you.

Alaskagain