Forgiven - Once For All

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Here is an article I am currently developing. Parts of it will be posted on my personal blog. However, this is the second installment and would like to get some feed back as well as discuss the nature of this topic. What are your thoughts? comments and suggestions? If you disagree, for what reason and why? What is your understanding of some of the things discussed?

Here is an introductory article I am working on for my blog (which can be viewed on my personal blog. Which is listed in my personal profile). I would like your thoughts on this.

INTRODUCTION

One of the most precious doctrines of the Christian faith is the central fact of Forgiveness. Several times do we read in the New Testament how we ought to Forgive one who offends us, forgive one another, and walk in forgiveness every day of our lives. Whether it is forgiving someone of a small simple offence, or forgiving someone of a grievouous offence, we must allow the working of the Spirit in our hearts to move us in a position to forgive - even though our natural tendency and humanity runs contrary in that we prefer to harbor bitterness, hatred and disgust toward the offender. And, while this article is about forgiveness, it is not about how one ought to forgive another but how we, as Christian believers are forgiven once and for all by Jesus Christ. This article is essentially about how we are ultimately forgiven at the point of salvation. It is about how God's Grace and desire to forgive those whom he has called into fellowship and grace by His sovereign divine will. This article is a study on Romans 5:7-9 and the scriptural premise and truth on how God calls us and redeems us, in that we are forgiven of our sins - once and for all. Paralleling this passage of the Apostle Paul with that of Hebrews 10:1-39 (specifically focusing on the context of Hebrews 10:1-22).

DEFINING THE TERM "ONCE FOR ALL"

The phrase, "Once for All" is a phrase that is used in the New Testament text on seven different occasions. Only one usage of the term "once for all" is delegated to the deliverance of the Gospel message. Within the NASB version - these seven instances are as follows:

Romans 6:10

Hebrews 7:27; 9:12; 10:10

1 Peter 3:18

Jude 1:3 and 5

The greek word for this phrase is efapax, or the transliterated word of Ephapax (pronounced as ef-ap'-ax) and is defined as meaning: Once, at once; All at once, Once for All. The connotation of this greek phrase gives the meaning that the Forgiveness of sins is "complete and accomplished all at once." It is this definition that we will look at the discussion as to the purpose of our Salvation and the meaning behind true Forgiveness.

IMPORTANCE OF SCRIPTURAL CONTEXT

One of the other fundamental importance that needs to be addressed is that of Scriptural interpretation and context. Majority of the varying beliefs neglect the importance of true authentic interpretation of scripture and the appropriate measure taking to carefully see what Scripture truly teaches and authenticates.

The first and foremost principle of looking at the scripture is to analyze it in the immediate context of the passage. Thus, while our initial examination of Romans 5:7-9 may initially seem out of context with the term and discussion of Forgiveness of Sins - Once for all, the overall application and context of the passage is directly linked to the context of the discussion and other various passages of scripture. The overall context if Salvation and the Forgiveness of our sins from the initial point of Saving Grace. In essence, the discussion is this: Once we are forgiven of our sins, is it a complete and whole forgiveness of past, present and potential future sins? Or is it forgiveness of past sins, but not of present and future sins? So, regarding the immediate context of Romans 5:7-9, we find that it is the Apostle Paul's thought being carried over from Romans 4. Romans 4 being carried over from Romans 3. Romans 3, carried over from Romans 2 and finally Romans 1 being the beginning of the scripture context. The immediate context is that of the doctrine of Justification and how and why the believer is Justified in Jesus Christ. The overall context is that of Romans 1-11.

The next objective look would be the cultural context of the passage. Meaning, we have to look at the passage as if we were there ourselves at the time the Epistle was read and shared with those of our contemporaries. This is also called the Historical Context. Why this is important is because cultures and sociological evolution is in play. What we understand our world today is far different than what the First Century Christians understood their world at the time of the writing of the New Testament and the Epistles being written and sent out.

The third understanding is seeing where this is supported within other passages of scripture. Essentially, we must also see where something like this is taught elsewhere in scripture. This solidifies the interpretation and understanding of the immediate context, historical context and the importance of establishing sound biblical doctrine. It is the test application of scripture. Testing the doctrine we have discovered, testing our understanding and interpretation of the scripture passage and then seeing where it lines up with other passages of scripture.

Essentially, I have accomplished this already with the defining of the term "once for all" by supplying other passages that have this same greek word, context and understanding of the passage.

WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS

In my introductory blog, I discussed what my goal and attempt was and the passage of scripture that we will be looking at. The passage of Scripture is Romans 5:6-9, which reads: For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. {NASB - Romans 5:6-9}

The King James Version rendering of this is: For while we were without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from the wrath through him.

While there seems to be a difference between the NASB and the KJV, the thought and the content is still the same. This thought is a present tense. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. What this means is that in our present state of humanity, we have offended God. In fact, the whole premise of the Apostle Paul in Romans is the first preeminance of Universal Guilt. In fact, if you were to look up The Book of Romans: An Introduction, the reader will find the outline and synopsis of Romans chapters 1-11. The most prominent statement of truth regarding man's universal guilt and sin is found in Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned..

All have sinned. This is the theme of Paul's message: "as it is written, there is none righteous, no not one". Essentially, the Apostle Paul goes back to the beginning of human history and reveals that because of Adam and Eve's original transgression (See Romans 5:12-21). This doctrine and the nature of the doctrine is defined as "Original Sin". Meaning, that because of Adam's initial transgression in the Garden of Eden, mankind, since Adam have been subjugated to a nature of sin and rebellion against God. Essentially, it is the idea and doctrine that because of Adam's transgression, we inherit a nature of sin and death.

It is this idea and premise that the Apostle Paul gives meaning to "while we were yet sinners". In essence, he was merely saying, "While in our sinful state and nature, Christ died for us." It is a present tense connotation of already being in existence.

This is the first point of doctrine that we must understand and come to terms with before answering the question of whether we are forgiven once for all - meaning completely and wholly and all at once, or forgiven partially and then in a co-operative effort in a covenantal relation between us individually and God.

[rickg]

While your article is just a bit windy for me, I caught the general idea you're talking about.

The answer is "no". We, as LDS, don't believe in a one-time repentance/forgiveness. It's a life-long process.

A quote:

"Great reinforcement and a sustaining power to succeed come when there is a determination to keep all of the commandments. The Lord expects a lifelong commitment to obey the plan of happiness, including continuing repentance as needed. He has said, “He only is saved who endureth unto the end"

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menu...Nav=1#footnote9

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

While your article is just a bit windy for me, I caught the general idea you're talking about.

The answer is "no". We, as LDS, don't believe in a one-time repentance/forgiveness. It's a life-long process.

A quote:

"Great reinforcement and a sustaining power to succeed come when there is a determination to keep all of the commandments. The Lord expects a lifelong commitment to obey the plan of happiness, including continuing repentance as needed. He has said, “He only is saved who endureth unto the end"

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menu...Nav=1#footnote9

I would consider that as part of the Sanctification process. Meaning, it is the process where that now that the Believer is Justified in Christ at the initial point of salvation, the Believer then walks in those good works by the Will and Desire of God. The best way I can say this is that we are given a divine will to walk in faith, even though we sometimes may stumble and sin, we are still growing like newborn children and our faith increases with each step we take. The premise here is the effects of the Initiatory Forgiveness from God imparted unto mankind. Hence the term "Once for All".

[Dale]

Hebrews 10:26 teaches it's possible to lose forgiveness. Sin can seperate us from God.

Matthew 18 has an example of the unforgiving slave forgiven totally of a debt. But he is not forgiving of someone who owed him a debt. So the king find's out about the incident and goes after the person debt that was forgiven.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Hebrews 10:26 teaches it's possible to lose forgiveness. Sin can seperate us from God.

Matthew 18 has an example of the unforgiving slave forgiven totally of a debt. But he is not forgiving of someone who owed him a debt. So the king find's out about the incident and goes after the person debt that was forgiven.

So, let us follow that thought out.

You are driving down the rode and accidently curse and get a sense of anger because the person cuts you off. You just lost forgiveness because we are to not harbor hatred for our fellow man in our heart and to show mercy and peace?

I do understand where you are coming from on that.

However, this is for a different discussion. The nature of the original post is regarding the Initial point of Forgiveness which is at the initial point of salvation.

[fish4kitty]

I would consider that as part of the Sanctification process. Meaning, it is the process where that now that the Believer is Justified in Christ at the initial point of salvation, the Believer then walks in those good works by the Will and Desire of God. The best way I can say this is that we are given a divine will to walk in faith, even though we sometimes may stumble and sin, we are still growing like newborn children and our faith increases with each step we take. The premise here is the effects of the Initiatory Forgiveness from God imparted unto mankind. Hence the term "Once for All".

Thats the way I would basically take it. The one scripture that keeps popping up in my head though is ...All have sinned and come short of the glory of G-d. Don't know why. Even though Jesus atoned for all sin we yet choose to sin. Which by we need to repent of our current sin we commit. Which would put the phrase you are talking about in current meaning. I guess the bottom line is what do you want to discuss? It's not like Jesus is going to come back and give his life again. Hence "once for all". Right ?????

Or am I going in the wrong direction here ? I'm not trying to be dumb about this I just don't know what you want to discuss.

f4k

[rickg]

yeah, maybe I'm lost here, too.

Oh well. Sorry. I'm not real "deep" sometimes.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Thats the way I would basically take it. The one scripture that keeps popping up in my head though is ...All have sinned and come short of the glory of G-d. Don't know why. Even though Jesus atoned for all sin we yet choose to sin. Which by we need to repent of our current sin we commit. Which would put the phrase you are talking about in current meaning. I guess the bottom line is what do you want to discuss? It's not like Jesus is going to come back and give his life again. Hence "once for all". Right ?????

Or am I going in the wrong direction here ? I'm not trying to be dumb about this I just don't know what you want to discuss.

f4k

The nature of the discussion is that Christ died Once for All for our sins. Meaning, his death on the cross was completely, wholly, perfect and at once. Meaning that he died for our sins that we had committed before the Point of Salvation and initial forgiveness, for our present sinful state and nature that we are under condemnation for and because of, and for our sins that we have yet to commit. This is otherwise known as being justified. Our nature changes from that of the flesh to that of flesh and spirit. We then have to bring our flesh and the desires thereof under the subjugation of the Spiritual nature. This is hard and without the power and will of God, we are unable to walk in the "Perfect Obedience" because there is no one that is perfect.

For now, the discussion is on the initial forgiveness and what it is we are initially forgiven for.

[rickg]

Hmmm....sorry friend. Either I'm lost(still), or maybe you're trying to make it more difficult than it's supposed to be. Dunno.

Christ suffered the atonement, openening the way for us. We accept his sacrifice by going thru the process of repentance. If we're lucky, we don't repeat the same sins again. But, being human and imperfect, there's always more to overcome and repent of. Therefore, we are continually repeating the process.

To me, that's about it. Simple, concise.

BTW, we also generally put more emphasis on the atonement in the garden, than his death. That's what makes it all work. His death sealed the atonement, but without the atonement, His death would have been just another death. More or less. He actually suffered more in the garden than He did on the cross.

But then maybe you realize all this. I just get the impression many other faiths kind of miss that point.

[Dale]

LDS people arn't thinking of mere salvation from hell as Evangelicals do. They are thinking of that plus salvation to three places the Celestial, Terrestrial, or Telestial kingdom. Failure to live what is called Celestial law doesn't lead to damnation auto-matically in outer darkness. In order to lose a place in the Celestial kingdom, but still be saved from outer-darkness the original debt with God has to remain forgiven.

When LDS talk of going through a repentance process it's geared toward's entrance into the Celestial kingdom. But they believe a person who refuses to go through the process can still be saved from outer darkness via the atonement. So if you break celestial law you only break that law, but might be living terrestrial, or Telestial law.

Critic's of the LDS Church select quotations from LDS leaders that demonstrate to them keeping Celestial law is mission impossible. I kind of think these quotations confuse the heck out of Evangelicals. Evangelicals see the strict nature of Celestial law and think damnation to hell if you fail to do it. Celestial law, and the law in Jame's 2:10 isn't the same law. Celestial law is a law of grace as many person's who fail to keep it are still in LDS belief saved from outer darkness. So it's possible not to be forgiven of a sin under Celestial law, but still be saved from hell. That mean's to not again owe your original debt with God, and go to hell you can't be in danger of losing that forgiveness via new sin.

LDS believe that hell is replaced by another place outer-darkness after the last resurrection.

Us Reorganized LDS believe similarly to LDS on what I said above. I took some witnessing to Mormon's training as an interest of mine. Locally we have a prominent critic of the Mormon Church named Mark Cares. He is the author of a book entitled Speaking the Truth In Love To Mormons. He is Pastor of Messiah Lutheran in Nampa, Idaho where I live. He is a very nice Lutheran man.

[fish4kitty]

The nature of the discussion is that Christ died Once for All for our sins. Meaning, his death on the cross was completely, wholly, perfect and at once. Meaning that he died for our sins that we had committed before the Point of Salvation and initial forgiveness, for our present sinful state and nature that we are under condemnation for and because of, and for our sins that we have yet to commit. This is otherwise known as being justified. Our nature changes from that of the flesh to that of flesh and spirit. We then have to bring our flesh and the desires thereof under the subjugation of the Spiritual nature. This is hard and without the power and will of God, we are unable to walk in the "Perfect Obedience" because there is no one that is perfect.

For now, the discussion is on the initial forgiveness and what it is we are initially forgiven for.

STS your way over my head. I'm not saying I don't get what your saying I just will let you all post and I'll watch. Christ died on the cross for my sins. Atonement. The whole in the garden thing is pre to actual atonement on the cross. Did he suffer in the garden yes. Did that event atone for sin no. Not argueing just putting it in text that I can understand. Your putting a lot of thought into this and I'm looking forward to your posts. One question though...in your last sentence you say there is no one that is perfect then how do you suppose we get to the celestial kingdom? No matter what we do here on earth we will never...NEVER be perfect. Just a question......

f4k

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

STS your way over my head. I'm not saying I don't get what your saying I just will let you all post and I'll watch. Christ died on the cross for my sins. Atonement. The whole in the garden thing is pre to actual atonement on the cross. Did he suffer in the garden yes. Did that event atone for sin no. Not argueing just putting it in text that I can understand. Your putting a lot of thought into this and I'm looking forward to your posts. One question though...in your last sentence you say there is no one that is perfect then how do you suppose we get to the celestial kingdom? No matter what we do here on earth we will never...NEVER be perfect. Just a question......

f4k

That is the beauty of the doctrine of Grace. Mankind can't be perfect no matter how strict of a law and command God gives. Look at all the laws God gave to the Children of Israel and in these laws, the High Priests had to perform animal sacrifices for every law that was broken as well as the yearly national day of atonement where the procedure was that a lamb, along with other animals, were set aside for the atonement sacrifice and burnt offering.

Christ fulfilled this levitical law of burnt offering and sacrifice. Yet as a person who is (the term "regenerated" meaning from a natural being under the condemnation of sin and death because of sin to a being possessing the essence lost in the garden of eden) born again, regenerated or made alive in Christ, are justified. Justified in that the very perfect obedience and righteousness of Jesus Christ is imputed unto the believer.

In essence, Jesus stands before the throne as our High Priest and Mediator (the symbolizim of the Old Testament High Priests standing in the Holy of Holies) and Satan stands on the other side as our accusor. A hypothetical heavenly dialogue shows what I am talking about:

To place this in simple terms:

Since Adam, mankind has a propensity to sin. Some do not fall into grevious sins like those of Hitler, Bundy, Manson etc, but all mankind suffer from the effects of Sin. We are held bound to sin and death. Hence the statement in John where it says "And light came into the world and men loved darkness rather than light, lest they come to the light and their deeds are exposed." We all know that Jesus Christ is called the Light of the World.

There is one thing that I do agree with. While each person born into this world possesses a concience, that concience can be lost over time. Every person has felt this concience of guilt. It is a natural propensity because of the knowledge of Good and Evil. Hence the reason why those who do not have the law are not judged according to the law but are judged outside of the law.

Now, just because we look at someone and say "That person is a good person" does not mean they are a good person in the eyes of God.

What this means is this: Since Adam, mankind has the propensity to bear false witness, covet, murmur, hate, become angry, lust, etc.

In fact, Christ stated: "Does it not say in the law that ye shall not commit adultry?"

Yes, the Levitical Law states: Thou Shalt Not commit Adultry.

But Christ stated the spiritual aspect of the law: "But I say unto you, any man who lusts after a woman has committed adultry already in his heart"

Essentially, if a man (whether married or not) gazes upon a woman and have lustful thoughts (Which is scientifically proven that men have constant sexual thoughts more than women) with a desire of a sexual nature or even the slightest sexual attraction, Christ equated this with him already commiting sexual sin. This is the beginning of sin. In fact, Charles Stanley stated that we don't "Fall into sin unknowningly" we walk into sin knowing exactly what and why we are doing what we are doing.

Christ said the same thing about hatred and anger. Anger ultimately leads to murder. Murder is stealing, coveting, etc.

If you actually notice all the ten commandments are linked to two fundamental pillars of truth: 1) Love the Lord your God with all your heart (first five of the ten commandments) and, 2) Love your neighbor as yourself (the last five ten commandments).

When you violate one of the laws, you are in violation of all the laws - no matter the degree and depth of sin.

It all is interrelated. Essentially, when you are stealing, you are also coveting. When you bear false witness, you are lying. It all interrelates one with the other. Hence, the reason why some New Testament passages (Especially James) says that if you keep one aspect of the law, you have to keep the whole law Perfectly. This is why there is none righteous (Which is an old testament and new testament passage of scripture). No one can keep the law perfectly except for Jesus Christ. When we violate one aspect of the law, we violate the entire law - that is why there is none not righteous.

[fish4kitty]

That is the beauty of the doctrine of Grace. Mankind can't be perfect no matter how strict of a law and command God gives. Look at all the laws God gave to the Children of Israel and in these laws, the High Priests had to perform animal sacrifices for every law that was broken as well as the yearly national day of atonement where the procedure was that a lamb, along with other animals, were set aside for the atonement sacrifice and burnt offering.

Christ fulfilled this levitical law of burnt offering and sacrifice. Yet as a person who is (the term "regenerated" meaning from a natural being under the condemnation of sin and death because of sin to a being possessing the essence lost in the garden of eden) born again, regenerated or made alive in Christ, are justified. Justified in that the very perfect obedience and righteousness of Jesus Christ is imputed unto the believer.

In essence, Jesus stands before the throne as our High Priest and Mediator (the symbolizim of the Old Testament High Priests standing in the Holy of Holies) and Satan stands on the other side as our accusor. A hypothetical heavenly dialogue shows what I am talking about:

To place this in simple terms:

Since Adam, mankind has a propensity to sin. Some do not fall into grevious sins like those of Hitler, Bundy, Manson etc, but all mankind suffer from the effects of Sin. We are held bound to sin and death. Hence the statement in John where it says "And light came into the world and men loved darkness rather than light, lest they come to the light and their deeds are exposed." We all know that Jesus Christ is called the Light of the World.

There is one thing that I do agree with. While each person born into this world possesses a concience, that concience can be lost over time. Every person has felt this concience of guilt. It is a natural propensity because of the knowledge of Good and Evil. Hence the reason why those who do not have the law are not judged according to the law but are judged outside of the law.

Now, just because we look at someone and say "That person is a good person" does not mean they are a good person in the eyes of God.

What this means is this: Since Adam, mankind has the propensity to bear false witness, covet, murmur, hate, become angry, lust, etc.

In fact, Christ stated: "Does it not say in the law that ye shall not commit adultry?"

Yes, the Levitical Law states: Thou Shalt Not commit Adultry.

But Christ stated the spiritual aspect of the law: "But I say unto you, any man who lusts after a woman has committed adultry already in his heart"

Essentially, if a man (whether married or not) gazes upon a woman and have lustful thoughts (Which is scientifically proven that men have constant sexual thoughts more than women) with a desire of a sexual nature or even the slightest sexual attraction, Christ equated this with him already commiting sexual sin. This is the beginning of sin. In fact, Charles Stanley stated that we don't "Fall into sin unknowningly" we walk into sin knowing exactly what and why we are doing what we are doing.

Christ said the same thing about hatred and anger. Anger ultimately leads to murder. Murder is stealing, coveting, etc.

If you actually notice all the ten commandments are linked to two fundamental pillars of truth: 1) Love the Lord your God with all your heart (first five of the ten commandments) and, 2) Love your neighbor as yourself (the last five ten commandments).

When you violate one of the laws, you are in violation of all the laws - no matter the degree and depth of sin.

It all is interrelated. Essentially, when you are stealing, you are also coveting. When you bear false witness, you are lying. It all interrelates one with the other. Hence, the reason why some New Testament passages (Especially James) says that if you keep one aspect of the law, you have to keep the whole law Perfectly. This is why there is none righteous (Which is an old testament and new testament passage of scripture). No one can keep the law perfectly except for Jesus Christ. When we violate one aspect of the law, we violate the entire law - that is why there is none not righteous.

I could not have said it any better. So in essence you sin knowing your sinning. When Christ died on the cross He gave the final sacrifice for all sin. He washed away all sin with His blood. Hence we are bathed in the blood of the Lamb. So through His blood we can be made whole.Worthy. The path to rightousness is not an easy path and many will fall short of the Glory of God.