The Scattered Tribes Of Israel

[dachosen1]

These verses say no such thing. James 1:1 specifically says "the twelve tribes of Israel." 1 Ne 22 says "all the tribes" not just Judah or Joseph. 3 Ne. 16 and 28 are in the context of Christ visiting the Nephites. He had already preached to the Jews (Judah) and the Nephites (Joseph) and he was now saying he would go to the others. You can do whatever you want to force your ideas on a text, but the texts are sufficiently clear for even a 1st grade kid to understand.

Joseph Smith was given he keys for gathering the 10 tribes from the north countries as well as from the four quarters of the earth. Israel is everywhere, but there is also a specific area of concentration that will, at Christ's coming, return. These refer to two different things. Those keys, given to Joseph Smith, are still with the First Presidency. They are the prophets that will gather Israel, and no one else. The text doesn't say the ten tribes have their OWN prophets at all. That, once again, is something you are reading into the text.

In Salt Lake City. Ephriam is the watchman on Mt. Zion, like Jeremiah said. They are calling forth to the rest of Israel to be gathered. "For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the Lord our God" (Jeremiah 31:6).

No one knows. I suspect that not even the ten tribes know any more than the Nephites and Lamanites knew where their scriptures were until they were revealed through Joseph Smith. Likewise, the ten tribes' scriptures will come forth under the direction of Ephraim who is now in Salt Lake City.

Drew,

What is it that you don't get in Section 133, It is very clear. Christ tells Joseph Smith in chronological order when the gathering will take place.

First, He will appear on Mount Zion. verse 20

Second, Everyone will hear his voice. verse 21

third, The lands will be brought together as one. verse 23-24

fourth, I will quote verse 26 again because you stated I am making up they had their own prophets.

"And they who are in the north countries shall come in remembrance before the Lord; AND THEIR PROPHETS SHALL HEAR HIS VOICE and shall no longer stay themselves; and they shall smite the rocks, and the ice shall flow down at their presents.

Who is "their prophets"? then. please tell me. Has Christ appeared yet? NO! Has everyone heard his voice? NO! Have the lands been brought back together as one yet? NO! This tells us then the 10 tribes are not being gathered yet until these other things come to pass. Don't count your chickens before they hatch!

You are also discrediting Mormon a prophet of God and God himself. They gave us the title page of the Book of Mormon so we would not be confused. 2 times it mentions only 3 group of people on earth. The Lamanites(Joseph), the Jews(Judah), and the Gentiles. If the 10 tribes were present and scattered on earth then God would have instructed Mormon to include a 4th group. He did no such thing. Ephraim is not found in Salt lake City. The Ephraimites are with the 10 tribes because they are thr rulers of the House of Israel.

[dachosen1]

Israelite: This is a board for congenial discussion and considering the inaccuracy of some of your posts, we are concerned about new and investigating members who might become confused. This post does not reflect church doctrine and I would encourage you to visit www.mormonapologetics.org if you would like to argue your point of view.

Seraphim

what is the church doctrine on Israel ? We must be attending 2 differnt churches then.

[DrewM]

what is the church doctrine on Israel ? We must be attending 2 differnt churches then.

I've wondered if you were attending a different church as well. I'm sorry you were banned, but you were warned. You were, in fact, teaching false doctrine. The posts above make that abundantly clear.

[LynnR]

“…In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.” --II Kings 17:6

“…So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day…”

--II Kings 17:23

Israel was carried away into Media and the Jews were carried away into Babylon. The Jews’ captivity occurred in 588 BC. (As a footnote, the prophet Amos had prophesied concerning the captivity and return of the ten-tribed kingdom one hundred and ninety-nine years before the Jews went into Babylon.)

It is a well-known fact among Protestant Christians that the Jews returned to their homeland after their release from captivity. It is not well known that no tribe of the northern kingdom, no children of Israel, have ever returned to and dwelt in their former home. And it will not do to make the statement “…the northern tribes ceased to exist…” The proclamation is too reductionistic. Besides, history clearly refutes such an idea.

Media, to whom Israel was exiled, extended north and south from two hundred and fifty to three hundred miles. In this region the ten tribes disappeared as a nation, and ceased to be known by the name of Israel. The areas where the captive Israelites was settled have been located. Most were in Upper Mesopotamia, which at that time formed part of the Assyrian Empire. The area is now best known as Turkey and Asia.

There have been recent discoveries of Assyrian tablets that reveal the fate of the Lost Tribes of Israel. The Assyrians called the Israelites, according to these tablets, such names as “Khumri” or “Khormi”. Around 707 BC a people known as “Gimira” and “Gamera” were recorded. It is believed these names are Assyrian names for the Israelites.

The names “Sacae” or “Sakka” (Scythians) are probably derived from “Isaaca” or “house of Isaac.” Raymond Capt points out the discoveries:

“…It can now be truly said—archaeology has solved two great mysteries, both occurring at the same time in history:

1) What happened to the countless thousands of Israelites that disappeared into Assyrian Captivity?

2) Where did the countless thousands of Scythians and Cimmerians come from?

Both mysteries no longer exist. The so-called ‘Lost Tribes’ of Israel were really never ‘lost.’ They only lost their identity during their captivity in Assyria.”

--Missing Links Discovered in Assyrian Tablets, pp. 122, 123

It is almost inconceivable that the tribe of Judah, after centuries of persecution, should number in the millions and the ten tribes not be of still greater numbers. Perhaps tens of millions. Neither does it seem conceivable that the ten tribes since the dispersion should become mixed with other races and so lose their identity as to be lost forever, so lost that God could not find them—a popular notion with most Protestant Christians. Especially after the promise God made to the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, concerning Israel. God promised that not one would remain lost (Amos (9:9)! The Lost Tribes are lost. They’re lost as to their identity. But not to God.

Israel was given a prophecy that she would eventually return (Amos 9:14,15) but first the Lord would “…sift the house of Israel among all nations…” (Amos 9:9).

It bears repeating—Amos prophesied Israel’s return from captivity before the Jews were captured by the Babylonians. That precludes any belief that Amos’ prophecies were fulfilled when the Jews returned from Babylonian captivity.

Where did the ten tribes go? They went northwest.

The Migration

“…Listen, O isles, unto me, and harken, ye people from far; thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.” --Isa.49:1-3

“…Therefore will I cast you out of this land, into a land that ye know not, neither ye nor your fathers, and there shall ye serve other gods day and night; where I will not show you favor. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall be no more said, The Lord liveth, that brought the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; but the Lord liveth that brought the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them; and I will bring them again unto their land that I gave unto their fathers.” --Jer.16:13-15

There are other scriptures that speak of the migration (Jer.3:9,10; Ezek.16:35-63).

Note three things about Jeremiah’s prophecy:

1) “…I will cast you out of this land…” We know they were taken into Assyria.

2) “…Into a land that ye know not…” They were not to remain in Assyria. They were familiar with that land.

3) "…Neither ye nor your fathers…” They migrated to a land unknown to the entire race, a land a long way from their home. They were to move on through the nations, into unknown regions, into the uninhabited, unexplored wilderness

“…Thus saith the Lord, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel” (Jer.31:2).

So, while Israel was taken to Assyria, they were not to stay there, but to wander into an unknown country called “the wilderness.” Eventually, when becoming “many nations” had fulfilled their destiny, the Lord would begin gathering them from the north and the west.

“…Behold, these [israel in the isles] shall come from far, and lo, these from the north and from the west…The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait [cramped] for me, a place to me that I may dwell.” --Isa.49:12, 20

Here are five points worthy of summary:

1) Ephraim (Israel) follows after an east wind (Hos.12:1). That meant the tribes traveled west.

2) They passed through a narrow passage (Micah 2:13). This “gate” or “narrow passage,” which is among the headquarters of the Euphrates, is known as the “Caucasian Pass,” or the “Pass of Dariel.” Ancient writings sometimes refer to it as the "Pass of Israel.”

3) Ezekiel said they traveled through “great waters” and Jeremiah said they came to a group of “isles” (Ezek.27:26; Jer.31:9,10).

4) Isaiah said they were to remain in the isles to “…let the people renew their strength…” (Isa.41:12).

5) Once the house of Israel had become strong, the Lord would regather them “from the north and the west,” and they would return to their homeland “ (Isa.49:12, 20).

Veil Lifted from Abrahamic Nations

Israel is now in the wilderness surrounded by foes. The ten tribes were being “sifted among all nations, like corn is sifted in a sieve.” They were to “abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an epod, and without a teraphim.”

But the prophecy includes the promise, “…Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God…” For now, God said to them, they are “not my people.” Later he would “…heal their backsliding, I will love them freely” (Hos.14:4).

They moved toward the north, and as they journeyed, they came in contact with various tribes under different names: the Jutes of Denmark, the Angles who dwelt on the east side of the Elbe, and the Saxons north of the modern Schleswig.

The Saxons are spoken of as being “powerful.” The Jutes and Angles joined with them, and together they made descent upon the coast of Britain.

Sons of Isaac

It is a well documented fact that the word “Saxon” is derived from the Hebrew name “I—saac.” The affix meaning “sons of.” “Sons of Isaac.” The Saxons are the Sons of Isaac!

Etymologist, Professor Yatman of England, concerning the root of the word Saxon, says that the Persians used the terms Sacae and Scythian as convertible, “…whether from a corrupt rendering of one from the other or because the Sacae, a great tribe of Scythians (wanderers) bordering upon them, were so called by a tribal name.”

Here’s an interesting passage:

…”The vast tract, chiefly consisting of grassy plains, which lies north of the Black Sea, the Causcasus, the Caspian, and the Jaxartes-Syhun River, were inhabited in ancient times by a race or races, known to the Asiatics as Sacae, to the Greeks as Scythians. These are the people 700 years before Christ who are the ancestors of the British people…Where Israel is lost, there the Saxon is found.”

--History of Anglo-Saxon, pp. 70,71

“…Where Israel is lost, there the Saxon is found…” Interesting.

Of the fact of the identity of the Sacae and the Scythians there is no doubting whatsoever. These people called their country Sacasena. It is equally clear, says Yatman, that the Saxons of England were the Scythians of Celte-Scythians. Plutarch, Tacitus, Ptolemy, and many authors accurately describe their geographical position in Europe.

Ptolemy finds the Saxon in a race of Scythians, called Sakai, who came from Media.

Pliny says, “…The Sakai were among the most distinguished people of Scythia, who settled in Armenia, and were called Sacae-Sani.”

Albinus says, “…The Saxons were descended from the ancient Sacae of Asia.”

Israel was known as a people of the covenant. The word “British” means “Covenant Man.” Which takes us to…

Israel in the Isles

“…Thus saith the Lord…I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant people…to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages.” --Isa.49:8

The Hebrew word for “covenant” is Beriyth, which in Judges 8:33 and 9:14 is used as a proper name. It is transferred (not translated) into the English text. The Hebrew words Ben-iysh Yemiyniy are translated “Son of a man of Jemini.” Ben means “a son,” Iysh, “a man,” and Yemiyniy, Jemini. The anglicized form of these words is “Ben, ish” and “jamin.” Taken together, they mean “A man of Benjamin, or a Banjaminite.”

We simply point out—ish in Hebrew means a man. Now back to the Hebrew word for “covenant,” which in its original form has no vowel, but which in its Anglicized form retains the vowel i to preserve the y sound, and we have Brith, which joined with ish is Brith-ish, and means “A Covenant Man.”

The connections are obvious: “A British Man.” “A Covenant Man.” British people living in the “far isles.” The people of Waels call themselves in ancient Welsh, “Brythy Brithan,” or “Briths of Briton,” which means “The Covenanters” or “the land of the covenant.”

There is too much secular history documentation, as well as scriptural, to say that the House of Israel does not today exist.

Lynn

[DrewM]

“…In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.” --II Kings 17:6

“…So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day…”

--II Kings 17:23

Israel was carried away into Media and the Jews were carried away into Babylon. The Jews’ captivity occurred in 588 BC. (As a footnote, the prophet Amos had prophesied concerning the captivity and return of the ten-tribed kingdom one hundred and ninety-nine years before the Jews went into Babylon.)

It is a well-known fact among Protestant Christians that the Jews returned to their homeland after their release from captivity. It is not well known that no tribe of the northern kingdom, no children of Israel, have ever returned to and dwelt in their former home. And it will not do to make the statement “…the northern tribes ceased to exist…” The proclamation is too reductionistic. Besides, history clearly refutes such an idea.

Media, to whom Israel was exiled, extended north and south from two hundred and fifty to three hundred miles. In this region the ten tribes disappeared as a nation, and ceased to be known by the name of Israel. The areas where the captive Israelites was settled have been located. Most were in Upper Mesopotamia, which at that time formed part of the Assyrian Empire. The area is now best known as Turkey and Asia.

There have been recent discoveries of Assyrian tablets that reveal the fate of the Lost Tribes of Israel. The Assyrians called the Israelites, according to these tablets, such names as “Khumri” or “Khormi”. Around 707 BC a people known as “Gimira” and “Gamera” were recorded. It is believed these names are Assyrian names for the Israelites.

The names “Sacae” or “Sakka” (Scythians) are probably derived from “Isaaca” or “house of Isaac.” Raymond Capt points out the discoveries:

“…It can now be truly said—archaeology has solved two great mysteries, both occurring at the same time in history:

1) What happened to the countless thousands of Israelites that disappeared into Assyrian Captivity?

2) Where did the countless thousands of Scythians and Cimmerians come from?

Both mysteries no longer exist. The so-called ‘Lost Tribes’ of Israel were really never ‘lost.’ They only lost their identity during their captivity in Assyria.”

--Missing Links Discovered in Assyrian Tablets, pp. 122, 123

It is almost inconceivable that the tribe of Judah, after centuries of persecution, should number in the millions and the ten tribes not be of still greater numbers. Perhaps tens of millions. Neither does it seem conceivable that the ten tribes since the dispersion should become mixed with other races and so lose their identity as to be lost forever, so lost that God could not find them—a popular notion with most Protestant Christians. Especially after the promise God made to the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, concerning Israel. God promised that not one would remain lost (Amos (9:9)! The Lost Tribes are lost. They’re lost as to their identity. But not to God.

Israel was given a prophecy that she would eventually return (Amos 9:14,15) but first the Lord would “…sift the house of Israel among all nations…” (Amos 9:9).

It bears repeating—Amos prophesied Israel’s return from captivity before the Jews were captured by the Babylonians. That precludes any belief that Amos’ prophecies were fulfilled when the Jews returned from Babylonian captivity.

Where did the ten tribes go? They went northwest.

The Migration

“…Listen, O isles, unto me, and harken, ye people from far; thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.” --Isa.49:1-3

“…Therefore will I cast you out of this land, into a land that ye know not, neither ye nor your fathers, and there shall ye serve other gods day and night; where I will not show you favor. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall be no more said, The Lord liveth, that brought the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; but the Lord liveth that brought the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them; and I will bring them again unto their land that I gave unto their fathers.” --Jer.16:13-15

There are other scriptures that speak of the migration (Jer.3:9,10; Ezek.16:35-63).

Note three things about Jeremiah’s prophecy:

1) “…I will cast you out of this land…” We know they were taken into Assyria.

2) “…Into a land that ye know not…” They were not to remain in Assyria. They were familiar with that land.

3) "…Neither ye nor your fathers…” They migrated to a land unknown to the entire race, a land a long way from their home. They were to move on through the nations, into unknown regions, into the uninhabited, unexplored wilderness

“…Thus saith the Lord, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel” (Jer.31:2).

So, while Israel was taken to Assyria, they were not to stay there, but to wander into an unknown country called “the wilderness.” Eventually, when becoming “many nations” had fulfilled their destiny, the Lord would begin gathering them from the north and the west.

“…Behold, these [israel in the isles] shall come from far, and lo, these from the north and from the west…The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait [cramped] for me, a place to me that I may dwell.” --Isa.49:12, 20

Here are five points worthy of summary:

1) Ephraim (Israel) follows after an east wind (Hos.12:1). That meant the tribes traveled west.

2) They passed through a narrow passage (Micah 2:13). This “gate” or “narrow passage,” which is among the headquarters of the Euphrates, is known as the “Caucasian Pass,” or the “Pass of Dariel.” Ancient writings sometimes refer to it as the "Pass of Israel.”

3) Ezekiel said they traveled through “great waters” and Jeremiah said they came to a group of “isles” (Ezek.27:26; Jer.31:9,10).

4) Isaiah said they were to remain in the isles to “…let the people renew their strength…” (Isa.41:12).

5) Once the house of Israel had become strong, the Lord would regather them “from the north and the west,” and they would return to their homeland “ (Isa.49:12, 20).

Veil Lifted from Abrahamic Nations

Israel is now in the wilderness surrounded by foes. The ten tribes were being “sifted among all nations, like corn is sifted in a sieve.” They were to “abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an epod, and without a teraphim.”

But the prophecy includes the promise, “…Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God…” For now, God said to them, they are “not my people.” Later he would “…heal their backsliding, I will love them freely” (Hos.14:4).

They moved toward the north, and as they journeyed, they came in contact with various tribes under different names: the Jutes of Denmark, the Angles who dwelt on the east side of the Elbe, and the Saxons north of the modern Schleswig.

The Saxons are spoken of as being “powerful.” The Jutes and Angles joined with them, and together they made descent upon the coast of Britain.

Sons of Isaac

It is a well documented fact that the word “Saxon” is derived from the Hebrew name “I—saac.” The affix meaning “sons of.” “Sons of Isaac.” The Saxons are the Sons of Isaac!

Etymologist, Professor Yatman of England, concerning the root of the word Saxon, says that the Persians used the terms Sacae and Scythian as convertible, “…whether from a corrupt rendering of one from the other or because the Sacae, a great tribe of Scythians (wanderers) bordering upon them, were so called by a tribal name.”

Here’s an interesting passage:

…”The vast tract, chiefly consisting of grassy plains, which lies north of the Black Sea, the Causcasus, the Caspian, and the Jaxartes-Syhun River, were inhabited in ancient times by a race or races, known to the Asiatics as Sacae, to the Greeks as Scythians. These are the people 700 years before Christ who are the ancestors of the British people…Where Israel is lost, there the Saxon is found.”

--History of Anglo-Saxon, pp. 70,71

“…Where Israel is lost, there the Saxon is found…” Interesting.

Of the fact of the identity of the Sacae and the Scythians there is no doubting whatsoever. These people called their country Sacasena. It is equally clear, says Yatman, that the Saxons of England were the Scythians of Celte-Scythians. Plutarch, Tacitus, Ptolemy, and many authors accurately describe their geographical position in Europe.

Ptolemy finds the Saxon in a race of Scythians, called Sakai, who came from Media.

Pliny says, “…The Sakai were among the most distinguished people of Scythia, who settled in Armenia, and were called Sacae-Sani.”

Albinus says, “…The Saxons were descended from the ancient Sacae of Asia.”

Israel was known as a people of the covenant. The word “British” means “Covenant Man.” Which takes us to…

Israel in the Isles

“…Thus saith the Lord…I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant people…to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages.” --Isa.49:8

The Hebrew word for “covenant” is Beriyth, which in Judges 8:33 and 9:14 is used as a proper name. It is transferred (not translated) into the English text. The Hebrew words Ben-iysh Yemiyniy are translated “Son of a man of Jemini.” Ben means “a son,” Iysh, “a man,” and Yemiyniy, Jemini. The anglicized form of these words is “Ben, ish” and “jamin.” Taken together, they mean “A man of Benjamin, or a Banjaminite.”

We simply point out—ish in Hebrew means a man. Now back to the Hebrew word for “covenant,” which in its original form has no vowel, but which in its Anglicized form retains the vowel i to preserve the y sound, and we have Brith, which joined with ish is Brith-ish, and means “A Covenant Man.”

The connections are obvious: “A British Man.” “A Covenant Man.” British people living in the “far isles.” The people of Waels call themselves in ancient Welsh, “Brythy Brithan,” or “Briths of Briton,” which means “The Covenanters” or “the land of the covenant.”

There is too much secular history documentation, as well as scriptural, to say that the House of Israel does not today exist.

Lynn

Thanks for that interesting post. I picked up a book today on the topic and will be looking into it.

[Drimcynn]

Why do members speak as if they are of one tribe making them a literal descendent of a specific tribe?

I doubt anyone has geneological backing on such things.

The odds are high that we all have blood from many different tribes. Especially if we live in the United states and or the European continent. A true melting pot over the generations. Knowing which tribe we are in or have been adopted into is important to know for the blessings based on the Abrahamic covenant and those promises.

The tribes were lost and are being found by the Missionaries daily. While serving my mission in California, our mission president allowed us to make our own curriculum after completing the other programs, I focused my studies on the 12 tribes. I still find them interesting today. All very interesting. McConkie's works are by far the most thorough on explaining things. While on my mission from time to time I would ask people (if they were willing) what tribe they were in. Many were of Ephraim which makes sense as we know where their inheritance lies, but that wasn't always the case. I spoke to people who were of many of the different tribes, even different within the same household. Current location has nothing really to do with it.

Something I did find interesting was many of the Hispanics I spoke too in California tended to be from Mannessah. Though like in all casses not all.