Are Non Lds "christians" Christian?

[Guest Delmar]

http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=183 :

There is indeed indication that the intelligence dwelling in each person is coeternal with God. It always existed and never was created or made (D&C 93:29)

Reconciling with ever increasing population - from Pearl of Great Price, Moses ch 1 -

33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.

35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.

The children of God and all of his creations are innumerable unto us, but are numbered unto him. We are his, and He knows us.

You think there's a problem of running out of spirits waiting to inherit earthly bodies? I don't think this is a problem unto God. His wisdom is above all human understanding.

I hope that helps answer the question- hope I didn't misunderstand your question.

So would it be fair to say that Mormons believe that "intelligence" of each being is uncreated, in the same way that God is uncreated? Or would it be more accurate to say that Mormons believe that God created every part of every being and the fact that they have always existed is a mystery that we may not understand, this side of Heaven?

By the way, it would apear that you understood my question just fine :)

[HiJolly]

So would it be fair to say that Mormons believe that "intelligence" of each being is uncreated, in the same way that God is uncreated? Or would it be more accurate to say that Mormons believe that God created every part of every being and the fact that they have always existed is a mystery that we may not understand, this side of Heaven?

I would say that most LDS would agree with the first statement. I also think that a fair portion of the LDS would agree with the second statement, but those of us that really, really like the King Follet sermon and D&C section 93 would quibble about God creating EVERY part of us. So you're bound to find some inconsistency amongst the LDS on this specific topic.

I don't think our salvation is dependent on these things, though, but rather on the atoning blood of Christ Jesus and His resurrection. So it doesn't bother me at all.

HiJolly

[ztodd]

So would it be fair to say that Mormons believe that "intelligence" of each being is uncreated, in the same way that God is uncreated?

That's how I currently understand it.

Or would it be more accurate to say that Mormons believe that God created every part of every being and the fact that they have always existed is a mystery that we may not understand, this side of Heaven?

This is still a possibility. I don't know for sure.

[Guest Delmar]

I would say that most LDS would agree with the first statement. I also think that a fair portion of the LDS would agree with the second statement, but those of us that really, really like the King Follet sermon and D&C section 93 would quibble about God creating EVERY part of us. So you're bound to find some inconsistency amongst the LDS on this specific topic.

I don't think our salvation is dependent on these things, though, but rather on the atoning blood of Christ Jesus and His resurrection. So it doesn't bother me at all.

HiJolly

So would you believe that it is possible that a true Christian, a righteous man of God, might conceivably believe, that Joseph Smith was a con man, who did not believe what he taught?

[Guest Seraphim]

So would you believe that it is possible that a true Christian, a righteous man of God, might conceivably believe, that Joseph Smith was a con man, who did not believe what he taught?

Delmar: If you want to remain on this board, do not call Joseph Smith a con man or imply it. As a rule of thumb, don't make statements here that would offend the majority of church members. You've basically rephrased your original question in an inflammatory way.

Seraphim

[fish4kitty]

Delmar: If you want to remain on this board, do not call Joseph Smith a con man or imply it. As a rule of thumb, don't make statements here that would offend the majority of church members. You've basically rephrased your original question in an inflammatory way.

Seraphim

Thank you!!

[Guest Delmar]

Delmar: If you want to remain on this board, do not call Joseph Smith a con man or imply it. As a rule of thumb, don't make statements here that would offend the majority of church members. You've basically rephrased your original question in an inflammatory way.

Seraphim

I didn't make a statement at all. I asked a question.

I did not in any way imply that Joseph Smith was a con man. I'm sure that you are as aware as I am that people have made these charges against him. All I did was ask if even his accusers would be considered Christian.

[Guest Seraphim]

I didn't make a statement at all. I asked a question.

I did not in any way imply that Joseph Smith was a con man. I'm sure that you are as aware as I am that people have made these charges against him. All I did was ask if even his accusers would be considered Christian.

I'm not going to tolerate inflammatory statements disguised as innocent questions. The answers to your original question should suffice as non-LDS Christians don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. We're aiming for a critic-free environment on this board and I don't feel your posts contribute to our goal. We do welcome sincere questioners with open arms.

Seraphim

[HiJolly]

So would you believe that it is possible that a true Christian, a righteous man of God, might conceivably believe, that Joseph Smith was a con man, who did not believe what he taught?

Yes, because good Christian people are deceived at times. Since I know Joseph's history, warts and all, I can see how a sincere person could be mislead into thinking that Joseph Smith was not a good man. But that would be a deception, a severe departure from the real Joseph. All too often, people are told bad things about good people. For hundreds of people's first hand accounts of Joseph, in a positive light, try reading Remembering Joseph. I read it last year and it was a joy.

HiJolly

[ztodd]

So would you believe that it is possible that a true Christian, a righteous man of God, might conceivably believe, that Joseph Smith was a con man, who did not believe what he taught?

I don't understand how you jumped to that conclusion... or are you just kind of changing the subject now? To answer you, yes I believe a righteous man or woman might believe that, either because they don't have all the facts straight, or they're being deceived.

[Cricket]

Could I perhaps continue this discussion in my mate Delmar's absence? I have read through your rules and this thread so I believe I have something to contribute without upsetting the apple cart any more.

My contribution may change the discussion slightly, but I believe I understand the nature of this thread well enough to do it justice.

As a member of no church is it possible for a person to be saved?

I must admit to knowing next to nothing about Mr. Smith, but I have been approached by several missionaries who have introduced his work to me. My question to them has always been why would I need to change what I currently believe in order to be saved?

[ztodd]

Could I perhaps continue this discussion in my mate Delmar's absence? I have read through your rules and this thread so I believe I have something to contribute without upsetting the apple cart any more.

My contribution may change the discussion slightly, but I believe I understand the nature of this thread well enough to do it justice.

As a member of no church is it possible for a person to be saved?

I must admit to knowing next to nothing about Mr. Smith, but I have been approached by several missionaries who have introduced his work to me. My question to them has always been why would I need to change what I currently believe in order to be saved?

I guess it all depends what you mean by saved. There are differing degrees of salvation. We have all been saved already from physical death- we will all be resurrected to inherit some degree of glory, because Christ was resurrected.

[Cricket]

I guess it all depends what you mean by saved. There are differing degrees of salvation. We have all been saved already from physical death- we will all be resurrected to inherit some degree of glory, because Christ was resurrected.

I mean to live in eternity with Christ.

[ztodd]

I mean to live in eternity with Christ.

To return to live eternally with Jesus and Heavenly Father again, one must accept and follow Jesus Christ's teachings to be baptized and join his fold. Everyone will eventually be taught so that they fully understand and have the opportunity to accept or reject baptism into the fold of God, either in this life or in the next. If you can open up your heart to learn and accept and follow his teachings in this life, I believe it can be easier for you and you'll receive more blessings for it.

[Cricket]

To return to live eternally with Jesus and Heavenly Father again, one must accept and follow Jesus Christ's teachings to be baptized and join his fold. Everyone will eventually be taught so that they fully understand and have the opportunity to accept or reject baptism into the fold of God, either in this life or in the next. If you can open up your heart to learn and accept and follow his teachings in this life, I believe it can be easier for you and you'll receive more blessings for it.

Jesus never taught that one must be baptised to be saved.

Jesus also taught that many will not enter the kingdom of God.

[HiJolly]

Jesus never taught that one must be baptised to be saved.

Jesus also taught that many will not enter the kingdom of God.

I disagree with your first sentence. Can you demonstrate evidence from the Bible for your claim? What exactly do you mean when you say "kingdom of God"? Are you here to argue?

HiJolly

[Guest Seraphim]

Jesus never taught that one must be baptised to be saved.

Jesus also taught that many will not enter the kingdom of God.

This board is not for arguing about LDS beliefs or witnessing to LDS members. I suggest you visit www.mormonapologetics.org.

Seraphim