Adam and Eve

[Hemidakota]

Last time I looked, Brigham Young, Spencer Kimball and Parley P Pratt were also Seers. Elder Bruce R. McConkie, another Seer, has also written that the rib was figurative and not actual. The symbolism is that we have fallen and with the fall been separated from one another and from God. It is our goal to become one again, even though our physical bodies may be separate.

Here are a few quotes on the subject.

One more thing, Elder B.H. Roberts was not an apostle. He was a president of the 70.

Whoops...sorry. Elder B.H. Roberts not an apostle. I stand corrected.

Being figurative is not the point I was illustrating. For now, I stand down from this topic.

[Hemidakota]

I don't know what "theory" you're trying to push in order to make your preconcieved notions true, but we have 15 prophet, seers, and revelators who declare truth. You seem to be placing more faith in what Joseph didn't mention, rather than what the more current brethren have clearly declared. If you read "the origin of man," I bet whatever your theory concerning the rib will conflict with it, and D&C 107:27,29 declare that unified quorum statements are to be considered of the same authority as the cannon.

The rib is figurative. Thus without Eve, Adam could not be made whole. They needed to be "sealed" in order for Man, male and female, to be made whole. The perfect wholeness of God's plan cannot be realized without men and women sealed together in the temple. That is what is being taught. To think that the "rib" is anything other than figurative would cause us to consider bizarre and false theories concerning the creation of mankind (and IMHO, that is why the brethren have been so clear that the rib is figurative). Not many things in the scirptures have been declared as figurative, so when something is declared such, I would think it is because it is important, if not essential, to our understanding of higher light and knowledge. Anyway, hopefully my opinion on the matter should be clear. You can believe whatever you want, but you shouldn't selectively pick and choose certain prophets. As Brigham Young said (summarized): I'd rather have a living prophet over any and all other scriptures and writings of the dead ones.

There is no theory here and if they looked into the past, it would of been noted as so. I stated, Joseph during his translation may of seen more than we think.

I am aware we have 15 Seers...do they use that key? Well? Please give some references.

Last, not all brethren taught it was a other than figurative or it was. It goes back to President Young statement and not Joseph Smith. Did the others concur with President Young? Perhaps. For me, it matters not. But it has nothing to do with man being created on this planet but hidden meaning of the procreation itself. I didn't arrive my answer on Roberts or Smith either. If I am wrong I will be corrected.

[gwozz]

There is no theory here and if they looked into the past, it would of been noted as so. I stated, Joseph during his translation may of seen more than we think.

I am aware we have 15 Seers...do they use that key? Well? Please give some references.

Last, not all brethren taught it was a other than figurative or it was. It goes back to President Young statement and not Joseph Smith. Did the others concur with President Young? Perhaps. For me, it matters not. But it has nothing to do with man being created on this planet but hidden meaning of the procreation itself. I didn't arrive my answer on Roberts or Smith either. If I am wrong I will be corrected.

I definately agree with you that Joseph Saw more and knew more than he shared with the church at large. As for references of them using the "key" of seership, I think one good example is the proclamation of the family. Look at what year it came out, and then analyze all the issues that have come up concerning marriage and family in our society since then. They foresaw.

If you're talking about use of the urim and thummim, no one talks about it. Well, let me rephrase, those who know don't say, and those who say don't know.

[Hemidakota]

Gwozz, a 'Seer' does not look into the future at all. It is used to look into the past or for translation of foreign languages that is not understandable by man; as to the case of People of Lehi used. However, prophets can look into the future and receive visions of such as the one you posted of the 'Proclamation of the Family."

I was not specifically addressing the UT itself as his means of gazing. I simply believe, that when under the gaze of translation, I could see him using it see more of the past to gain a better understanding of 'what was' for his own edification. Would you? I know I would.

Now, Joseph found the UT, were designed for a larger person [People of Jared] than for him to wear. He resulted to a found sear stone to continue the translation. [Reference: Joseph Smith "The Gift of Seeing"]

Like Tom, Ram, Justice, and few others contributed to the forum, sometimes it becomes thankless entry. I for one, do not carry a "full cup", as to waters of knowledge. I am always learning from the Spirit and others. Thanks to all who discourse here.

[Hemidakota]

I forgot to add, you have the same privileges in seeing the past as to see the future; for your own edification.

[gwozz]

Gwozz, a 'Seer' does not look into the future at all. It is used to look into the past or for translation of foreign languages that is not understandable by man; as to the case of People of Lehi used. However, prophets can look into the future and receive visions of such as the one you posted of the 'Proclamation of the Family."

I was not specifically addressing the UT itself as his means of gazing. I simply believe, that when under the gaze of translation, I could see him using it see more of the past to gain a better understanding of 'what was' for his own edification. Would you? I know I would.

Now, Joseph found the UT, were designed for a larger person [People of Jared] than for him to wear. He resulted to a found sear stone to continue the translation. [Reference: Joseph Smith "The Gift of Seeing"]

Like Tom, Ram, Justice, and few others contributed to the forum, sometimes it becomes thankless entry. I for one, do not carry a "full cup", as to waters of knowledge. I am always learning from the Spirit and others. Thanks to all who discourse here.

I think I understand what you are saying. Trying to distinguish a "seer's" attributes is difficult since “A seer is a revelator and a prophet also” (Mosiah 8: 15-16), thus all attributes that go with being a prophet and a revelator are also given to the title "seer".

[rameumptom]

I also think Joseph saw more than we are aware of. Having said that, I also realize it was based upon his personal understanding. When Joseph translated the BoM, and read where it mentioned the walls of Jerusalem, he asked Emma if it really did have a wall. When she said it did, he was glad because he was afraid he was misinterpreting the scriptures.

Lehi and Nephi both had the Vision of the Tree of Life, but only Nephi noticed that the river of water was dirty; and so stated to his brethren that their father had not noticed its filthiness because he was caught up considering other things.

Often our understanding of a vision or revelation tends to be buffered by our understanding, or lack thereof.