[my Faith needs more fizz]

Elgama,

I'm sorry hear that you are feeling so down. If I remember right from some of the comments in the chat room is that your health hasn't been too well? I know that can be very frustrating and depressing. It's good you don't bare any resentment to the sister that was bullying you. I think if you pray for that sister it would do good for you as well as her. It always has amazed me the blessings I get when I can humble myself and pray for forgiveness for someone that has really hurt me or done me wrong. Let me also give you a bible verse that helps me when I'm in the mist of a storm in my life. God never said that our lives here would be easy, but he did say would never leave us. What ever storm happens in our lives we should be humble and thankful to God for it. Because in the mist of it, His hand is working. We don't know if we are going through it to learn a lesson or to be an example to others. I really struggled with the concept of praising God during the storms in my life. But I've come to realize that God has in hand in everything. There isn't anything that happens to us that doesn't filter through his hands first. Romans 5: 1-5.Romans 5

1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

It's my hope and prayer for you that you not lose hope. That you bless and praise God continuallly. That what ever trials you are facing that you can see God's hand working and that he gives you the peace of mind and the understanding of why you maybe going through it. My daughter who is nine aske me a question last week. She asked, "Mom if God already knew that Abraham would obey him then why did God even have Abraham put his son on the alter? It doesn't make sense mom if God already knew what Abraham would do. " We were driving so I thought for a minute. I was kind of amazed at her perception on things and I told her.... "Because it's not enough for God to know that Abraham would obey Him. Abraham needed to know that he would obey God. And Abraham's faith increased when he did obey him. Abraham learned to trust God, but Abraham also learned the strength he had in himself from God.".... Sometimes we have to be put through trials and tests so that we know and we learn to trust in God and depend on God to pull us through. Every trial we get through that we asked God's help on strengthens us spiritually. God is faithful. God Bless and take Care!

Missy

[Patriarchal Blessing question]

wow that's pretty interesting! Thank you for the post. :)

I like the quotes you have as you signature.

[Patriarchal Blessing question]

Thank you for expanding more on your original post so I can better understand where you are coming from. I have seen a PB posted before, but that thought hadn’t crossed my mind. I don’t need any justification for leaving the church. What happened is between God and I and it is for God and I to work out, if it needs to be worked out. I can see now that you expanded your comments why you think it is sad. However you seem to have former members all lumped in one category and have them all label as wolf-in-sheep’s-clothing. I just recently joined this forum so I don’t know what tactics I have that would be always changing and am I not trying to get sympathy. I asked if someone could direct me on how to get a copy of my PB and am thankful for the assistance I received. It doesn’t matter if my PB is invalid or not I have my reasons for wanting a copy. I disagree with you on saying it would cause mental distress. I disagree with what you believe hell is. I believe hell is a real place not a state of grieving for a place that I could have obtained.

I do have a question for you John Doe if you don’t mind. You stated that if I am interested in coming back to talk to my local bishop. Then you stated that after I got baptized I could get a new PB with new blessings. I thought a PB was a blessing that told a person of the plans that HF had for their life from the pre-existence, why would I need a new PB? Would the blessings change? Your comment is intriguing.

[Why so solemn during meetings?]

Justmiss- While I appreciate your well-meaning advice to stick with "what I was taught" in other Christian churches, it wasn't asked for.

Other Christian churches taught me nothing but lies, and you are lying as I type. The LDS is the truth, and quite frankly I feel sorry for you if you feel you have to swoop in on new members and attack them with anti-mormon propaganda while they are still fresh in their faith.

Please don't come into any more of my threads to spread lies and try and turn people away. It won't work.

Rachelle, I feel like I owe you an apology. I do apologize that my post upset you. I'm sorry you were lied to by christian churches. There is no need for you to feel sorry for me, because I don't feel like I have to swoop in on new members and "attack" them anti-mormon propaganda. That was never my intention when I joined here. Honestly it wasn't. I read your post and I just felt things were laid on my heart. I mean no disrespect to you or anyone here. I am glad you feel that you have found truth and I wish you the best in your walk wtih the Lord. Take care, good luck and God Bless!

[Patriarchal Blessing question]

Just Miss, when you say you had your name removed from the Church's records, did you actually write a letter to that effect and mail it to SLC?

I wrote a letter to slc. I got a letter back stating that all the eternal workings of my baptism would be voided or undone or something like that.

Thanks for your help and support. I'll write a letter to slc and see what happens.

[Patriarchal Blessing question]

No it's ok. There is no need to report you to anyone. I've been on several discussion boards and it's the Moderators that set the standard. I can see the standards that you set for the people here. There is no need to report you to anyone. You make your comments and you feel nothing from them. You don't see or care that they may come across and rude or insincere. You know absolutely nothing of me but you feel the need to lash out in a condensending manner. Don't comment on my feelings or how easily they may or may not be hurt, because it's obivious you don't care about them anyhow. Your actions don't have to be reported to a team of moderators because there is a Mediator that sees your comments and knows your harden heart. Your actions on here don't go unnoticed. So you just continue on what ever path you choose. It's none of my concern. Take care and God Bless!!

[Patriarchal Blessing question]

Thank you kindly Rachelle.

[Patriarchal Blessing question]

John Doe,

No worries, Your post was succinct enough to convey your feelings on the matter. But really it doesn't matter what you "feel" on the matter. So if you want a pat on the back or a thumbs up for being insulting then yeah I agree I think you deserve it. Take care and God Bless!

[Work Issues-HELP]

I'm not LDS but here is what I think

1) At my work during lunch a lot of people in the teacher's lounge talk about filthy things- prior to learning about the church (I will be baptized March 22) it didn't bother me, but it TRULY does now. Is it rude to leave and have lunch elsewhere? I'm feeling convicted about this. Some of them know from my students excitement who are LDS that I am coverting- I don't want to show a bad side of LDS, I don't want to disown them, but I don't like the inappropriate talk. What should I do?

Honestly, you will continue to change. Things that didn't use to bother you will start bothering because you are now more in tune with sin in your life and surrounding your life and that's natural. It's not rude to have lunch elsewhere. But if you are at the table and the subject starts to change and you start feeling uncomfortable then tone them out. My husband deals with a lot at his job. He too is a teacher. He actually pulls out magazines and starts reading them. He has gotten up before and said, "Ok and on that note I'm going to head out" He is polite and smiles and tells them bye so they aren't offended but he doesn't stay and listen to the flith either... and his coworkers are learning and they also have a level of respect for him that they try not to talk about things when he is there.... It's an adjustment for you to be around and it will also be an adjustment for your co workers. But that's not a bad thing. My co workers and my husband's as well know what is acceptable for them to joke about and what we may find offensive. It all comes down to respect alot of times. And there is nice ways of asking for a subject change. I wish you luck, I know it's not a easy situation. :)

2) There is a party that a lot of people are planning to go to that is going to happen after school hours at the house of one of the teachers. There is a TON of alcohol that is going to be there and I have an issue with taking my family to a party like that. It's not going to be a drunken mess, however the fact that they are going to have like 10 bottles of wine and beer for maybe 20 people makes me feel sort of sick. Should I go or not, and again if I don't is this rude and reflect badly on the church?

Ok with this one you have to do what is right for you. If it makes you feel sick at the thought of taking your family to a party where there is alcohol then don't go. And by all means, no it isn't rude. If you choose to go I don't think it would reflect badly on you or the church if you keep your standard. I don't drink. And we have gone to formal parties where there have been alcohol. If someone offers me a glass of wine or something, I just politely tell them something like, "no thank you I don't drink, but I would love a sprite or coke or something" and I smile and never act offended that they offered. Because they didn't know I dont' drink... You shouldn't feel akward because you don't drink. You can go to these events and be a positive role model for the people around you. But know this, It's not rude to not go because you think you might be uncomfortable. I have gone to lots of things and most people now know that my husband and I don't drink and they don't even offer it. They bring us water, soda etc. There is lots of options and you'll adjust as you go! Good luck and God Bless! :)

[Ima new ;)]

Jennie,

Welcome to the boards. :) This might just be the mom in me coming out but please be careful online and don't give out your personal information :) God Bless and take care!

[Patriarchal Blessing question]

I was afraid of something like that. I know when I got my letter of them removing my name from the records it said something along the lines of all the eternal works of my baptism will be undone. I would think that even if they think the PB is voided because I am no longer a member, they could still give me a copy. Yeah my name was removed but that was still mine and it wouldn't be hurting anyone by me getting a copy of the blessings even if they are considered undone. I'm not sure if that makes sense but it makes sense in my head. Thanks for your input. I'll request a copy and see what happens. It's all I can do anyhow. If they say no, they say no.

[Music and Confusion]

I've been listening to the Christian stations here and I love them. The music is upbeat motivating and I love that I can listen to in my car driving anywhere with my kids and not worry about the lyrics being inappropiate. I love hearing them sing along. It's exciting to hear them singing songs about Jesus. We were on our way into town one day and my oldest said, "oh Mom turn this song up it's my favorite".. It was the song, Blessed Be The Name of the Lord. I've noticed a lot of the songs are actually scripture versus put to music. I enjoy reading in my bible and seeing versus that I've heard in the songs. There will be some differences on what you have been taught and how you worship and what they sing about. I know alot of the songs on the stations are worshipping Jesus. I know when I was LDS the main focus in prayer and worship was to heavenly father in jesus' name. In alot of the music you'll hear a big focus on Jesus. Any ways, take care and good luck in school.

[Patriarchal Blessing question]

Thank you everyone for the resources. I appreciate your help and assistance. You all seem like a very nice group here :)

[Patriarchal Blessing question]

I just first want to compliment this site for really nice advice section on this discussion board. I was reading through alot of the post and am moved by the support you offer to those in need.

I just have a quick question and I'm hoping someone will be kind enough to point me in the right direction. I am a former member of the LDS church and I would like to obtain a copy of my patriarchal blessing. I've been aways from the church for several years and I'm not sure where to begin. Does anyone know the steps I need to take to get another copy? What information they would need? Where I would put the request in? etc.? Thank you kindly for your time and I appreciate any assistance you can offer.

Missy

[Why so solemn during meetings?]

Brother Dorsey,

I do hope you feel better now that you vented. I honestly don't mean that sarcastically. I just have a couple comments and forgive me if I don't do this quote thing correctly.

my Comment:

Christians do not believe that after you die you have the option so it would be irresponsible for them not to share if questions are brought up. If a Christian shows concern about LDS eternal state and that's viewed as christians harrassing LDS.

Your Comment:

See, there you go again, building a wall of resentment by telling us we are not Christian...have you learned nothing? You're not making brownie points with the LDS folk here...but that's okay because we forgive you and we know you LOVE us!

I wasn't trying to build a wall of resentment, nor am I trying to score brownie points. When I attend the LDS church at that time the members and leaders didn't want to be referred to as Christian. They didn't even want to be referred to as Mormon. They wanted to be referred to as LDS. The tone at that time was that of looking down at Christians (people that attended churches that weren't LDS) Comments like they don't have "the fullness of the gospel" and others such as "All their teachings are an abomination" Things like, "The Christian God is the Mormon's Devil." It was an insult at that time to be referred to as a Christian. And I seen it on several occasions if someone made a reference to an LDS member saying something like, "Oh are you Christian?"... There reply would be.... "No, I'm LDS" I'm not sure at what time the LDS members wanted to be referred to as Christians. So my apology.

My Comment:

LDS members often will not share the gospel because they feel that, "oh well, that one seems to difficult, they can choose to accept the gospel after they die and someone does baptism for the dead for them"

Your Comment

Huh? 50,000+ missionaries in the field at any given time is not sharing the Gospel? "Every member a missionary" ring any bells? The LDS pray for opportunities to share the Gospel. We love to share our testimonies and feel the Spirit of the Lord testify through us. Oh, how little you really know about the LDS people and the church.

Yes I know you have a large number of missionaries. I know every member is to think of themselves as a missionary. What I meant by my comment is something on a different level. What I was taught as an LDS member was that while talking to someone about the church, or teachings or my testimony that if they seemed frustrated or said something against the church I was to stop. That I didn't have to answer questions. That if they raised opposition to what I was saying then their opposition was my confirmation that what I was testifying was the truth and the amount of their opposition let me know the significance of what I was saying. Truth was the quiet whispering in my heart. Opposition was the confirmation of the truth and the amount of opposition determined how important what I was saying was. When I was taught that if I meet opposition, that I do not need to continue that discussion with that person. I was told they will not understand because they do not have the fullness of the gospel and that they are actually part of satan's schemes to try and pull me from the truthfulness of the church. I was also told not to worry about it because the person if they aren't taught the gospel here will have a chance to accept or reject it in paradise after they die. That was a lot to take in at the time it was being taught. I've seen my sister, who is active in the LDS church visit our relatives when they were dying and never discuss the gospel with them. I could never understand that. My thought was, if she believes and she does, that she is a member of the only true church then why in the world wouldn't she discuss it? But she didn't. She let 3 years lapse with out ever even trying. But as soon as they died, she went to the temple and had their name added in for the baptism of the dead. That's why I made that comment. Because to me and others it seemed not right. I can see from my comment how you and I'm sure others thought I was talking about missions but I wasn't.

Your Comment:

But, wait....you said, "I don't believe what my sister believes and out of a loss of what to do I'm here. So I can hopefully understand somethings a little better, so her and I can talk with out walls and resentment"

But, but, but....you were a member for over ten years and you know the LDS mindset and you know what the LDS church teaches....so what is it you need to understand? Hold on a sec. I just figured it out....I can help you tear down that wall of resentment with your sister! Simply stop criticizing her beliefs and telling her what she believes is wrong....keep your mouth shut and love her! I'm sure that will work for you.

I actually don't criticize her. What good would that do? Absolutely none. She has resented me from the time I had my name removed from the church records. She does the criticizing and I rarely say things back. We at one point had to agree to disagree and that didn't last long. She makes comments. One day we were at a family gathering. Most of the family attending were non LDS. We were sitting around the table and my great aunt told my cousin what a beautiful cross pendent she had on. My sister looked at it and rolled her eyes in disgust and said, "I think it's morbid!"... My cousin was taken off guard and said, "I don't understand why do you think it's morbid?". my sister said, "It makes no sense! It's like if your father died and your wore a hub cap around your neck from off the car that hit him! It's morbid and it makes no sense!". I bit my tongue for a few moments but I'm sorry, but I can't wrap my mind around that way of thinking. So I said, "Well if my father pushed me out of the way of the car and sacrificed himself so that I could live, then wearing that hubcap wouldn't seem so far fetched." She had no right to lash out like that. She learned that attitude from the LDS church. I've heard it alot when I went there. Comments like... "well if Jesus was shot you'd probably wear a gun around your neck."... Christians view the cross as a symbol of Love. Jesus willingly gave up his life on the cross for our sins. Wearing a cross to remember that great loving sacrafice is not morbid. It's an empty cross symbolizing Jesus is alive and victorious over death. How that can be viewed as morbid I'll never understand. But anyhow, It's not a matter of me just having to shut my mouth and love her. I already love her. If I didn't, I wouldn't care one way or the other about what she does.

Your comment

Discuss or condemn? Make comments or hurt?

Missy, I know my replies can be a little sarcastic and rough around the edges but please, please believe me when I say, It really matters not what you preach or how you preach it, you cannot cause a change of heart in a faithful member of the Lord's church...we have been given personal revelation regarding the Gospel and we will not deny God...!

I'm not here to condemn anyone. I am open for discussing. I'm not one that intentally hurts people. It's not my nature and brother dorsey your comments are not a little sarcastic but very sarcastic and they aren't rough around the edges they are rough all the way through. And as I posted before, I'm not here to cause a change of heart or "convert Mormons" as you put it. It's not my job to do that. God is the only one with that power. If seeds are planted, He adds the increase. I am a faithful member of the Lord's church. His church consists of His body of believers, not according to what church I had membership in.

and I almost forgot.... truce. :) Take care and God Bless!

[Why so solemn during meetings?]

Missy...

This reply you posted to Rachelle's original post seems to me to be just your ex-Mormon way to discourage a new member by spewing regular anti-Mormon twisted garbage.

In your introductory Post you said,

"I am not a member of the LDS church but I do have a great love for the LDS members. I was a member for about 12 years. I enjoy visiting different sites and disscussion boards and getting different view points. I hope that won't be a problem."

I for one think it is a problem and I personally have a big problem with your evangelical agenda. Why is it that evangelicals are determined to try to "convert" Mormons? So, you were a member for 12 years? What makes you an authority on Mormon doctrine? Tell me Missy......if you love the LDS and we are such nice and loving people then why can't people like you just leave us alone?

To Rachelle.....

Just remember, Missy only has the partial truth's found in the Bible...but as LDS we have the fullness of the Lord's Gospel...something Missy and her friends deny. You have to ask yourself this question..."Would you go out of your way and visit an evangelical Christian message board and proceed to tell them that what they believe is wrong." Of course you wouldn't...because you are a true Christian. Watch out for those "wolves in sheep's clothing" that the Bible tells us about who come here with hidden agendas.

God bless you Rachelle!

I have no "hidden adgenda" I'm not here to convert Mormons. Nor am I determined to convert anyone. People do not do the converting. God does. I am not anti Mormon. Because in order to be anti mormon that would require me to hate mormons. Which I don't. I didn't come to this website to do evangical work or as you try and state it .."convert Mormons". She asked questions, I gave her some of what I learned while a member. There was nothing I put in my post that was hateful, or untrue. If you don't like what I have to say then by all means don't read it. You have that option. I know and understand the LDS mind set. I was one. You want to call me a wolf in sheeps clothing. So be it. You judge me with out knowing me based of some preconceived notion you have in your head. I dont think me telling someone to study their bible in context is a bad thing. Should I tell her to study it out of context? Should I tell her to cherry pick the bible and only pick out the verses that she likes? You're upset because I point out teachings that the LDS religion teaches. What exactly did I twist? It's up to Rachelle what she believes. If she chooses to go another step into the LDS faith, then that's her choice. I think a person should know what a religion teaches and have the option to compare before they decide. How is that anti anything? What would she be out by studying the bible in context? Absolutely NOTHING. What is she out by knowing everything the LDS church teaches as well as the history of the church before deciding to join? NOthing. So don't accuse me of hidden adgendas. I'm sure you rather just give her the milk of the religion now and save the meat until later.

You asked if I think that LDS people are nice and loving why don't "people like me" leave them alone? I'm don't hunt down LDS members and down them on their religion. If the LDS religion is brought up in conversations, of course I will discuss it. We are instructed to share the gospel. If that offends you, then honestly I'm sorry. But that would seem to be a problem for you to work out with in yourself. If you want to play a victim role and make it like all evangicals just harrass LDS members, then you are the one with the issue. What you are missing out on is this, When a christian is discussing with you the gospel then they are doing it out of LOVE for you not hate. LDS members often will not share the gospel because they feel that, "oh well, that one seems to difficult, they can choose to accept the gospel after they die and someone does baptism for the dead for them" Christians do not believe that after you die you have the option so it would be irresponsible for them not to share if questions are brought up. If a Christian shows concern about LDS eternal state and that's viewed as christians harrassing LDS. Are discussions heated? At times yes they will be. ARe all christians eloquent when discussing the gospel with LDS? no they aren't at times. I come here to discuss and read and take in and yes make comments at times if I feel lead to do so. My sister is LDS and coming here and reading helps me talk wtih her. A LDS person actually is the one that suggested I look into the LDS discussion forum. She felt that if I came here and read some of the discussions it would help me better to understand my family. How is that a hidden agenda? I don't believe what my sister believes and out of a loss of what to do I'm here. So I can hopefully understand somethings a little better, so her and I can talk with out walls and resentment, so my kids can have their Aunt in their lives. Don't accuse me with out knowing me.

Take care and God Bless

Missy

[Hello]

Hi

My name is Missy,

I am not a member of the LDS church but I do have a great love for the LDS members. I was a member for about 12 years. I enjoy visiting different sites and disscussion boards and getting different view points. I hope that won't be a problem.

I do hope to get to know the members of this board. :)

[Why so solemn during meetings?]

Sorry if the title of this message is vague, i'll try my best to elaborate.

I was raised in a Charismatic church (essentially it was Pentecostal) and anyone that has any experience with churches like this known that their services are VERY different in nature than that of an LDS meeting.

Anyway, long story short after many years, I fell away from my old church and began dating a guy who was raised in LDS. He's really taught me a lot, and I feel myself growing very fond of the church. I wanted to become more involved, and I began meeting with missionaries and doing studies with him.

When I read the Mormon scriptures and speak with my new Mormon associates, I truly feel like i've finally found the truth of the world. It's a great feeling.

Attending meetings in the church is another business entirely. I have a really hard time going to meetings. The environment is VERY different from what i'm used to, and I don't feel the spirit in the least when I enter the LDS church. In fact, more often than not i'm offended.

It seems like nobody pays attention to whoever is talking while at the mic, there is so much irrelevant whispering and chattering at the Ward I go to! Is this common at all Wards/Branches? In the Charismatic scene, when at church you talk about Christ, not your everyday business, and our attention was on the speaker (or obviously God.)

And the ones who are paying attention show little to no emotion about the subject at hand. It's almost like they are bored! I don't understand how you could be lackluster while in the presence of God. I get really excited and happy when I hear people teaching the gospel, i'm so used to dancing and cheering when in the Lord's house.

Obviously a lot of this is just me being used to a lot of energy and noise from the Pentecostal churches I attended growing up. But it's so hard to feel passion inside of the LDS church! I get so excited and worked up when reading the scripture at home, but it's like a real downer whenever I get inside a meeting.

Is this sort of behavior expected of all meetings? If so, why is that? I don't want to be cutting down the church because i'm super interested in taking things further. I just want to feel some emotion other than frustration when I enter the LDS church.

Rachelle,

I was a member for over ten years. The meetings don't change. I was taught to sit quietly, reverently with my arms folded. I was taught that was a sign that you were paying attention to the person presenting the talk or lesson. I sat there and would pay attention. I heard over and over , "I know this church is true, I know Joseph Smith was a true propet"... I was excited to belong to the "only true church." The church really emphasizes trusting your feelings. You'll hear things like.... "when you hear a testimony you'll know what the person is saying is true by the warmth you feel in your heart. That's your confirmation of truth. It's a slippery slope. The bible has many warnings about not only trusting your feelings. But also trusting different gospels. In

Galations 1: 6-9

6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

the bible also warns about false prophets going out into the world. It also says that God allows this to happen to test us. The bible also gives us things we can do to determine if one is a false prophet or not. As well as if what is being taught is the word of God. It instructs us to not trust every spirit but to test the spirts. It also tells us to use the Bible as a benchmark for truth. In other words, if you are taught something, refer to the Bible and compare. What does the bible teach about this. If it isn't what the bible teaches then you are not to trust in it. For example... the law of eternal progression where after you die you continue to progress in knowledge. The bible "in Context" doesn't teach that. The key to determining the the truth of the teaching is reading the bible in context. If you are given a bible verse to support a teaching. Don't just read the one verse you are given, But read the entire chapter in context to understand what is really being discussed. There is so many teachings that are so against the teaching of the bible. The idea that man can become gods alone is so far from Christianity. And the teaching that God was once a man that walked a earth like you and I, that died and continued to progress until he was exalted into being god over his own realm. Where him and his many wives hat spirit babies and continue multiplying until there were enough spirits to come to earth to gain physical bodies. So they can live the ordinances of the "only true church" and gain in knowledge and spiritual understanding so that when they die they too hopefully can continue to progress and hopefully become exalted and become gods/ess over their own realms. God put on flesh and became man, to come and teach us, and to die a horrible death on a cross. He was victorious over death and was resurrected so that we can have eternal life to honor and worship him, not exalt ourselves or becomes gods. Rachelle I just hope and pray you will remember the teaching you were taught in your Christian chruch. Compare the teachings to the bible and you will know that as nice and loving as the LDS people are, their teachings are not true. God Bless you!

Missy