Mullenite

There No Place in the BiBle, SAYS the WORD RAPTURE!!!!!!!!

Hey Canuck Mormon; don't Worry

Deification in the New Testament Let us briefly consider a few of the verse in the New Testament which teach deification. The author of Hebrews says that God "that appointed" Christ heir " of all things" (1:1-2; 1 Peter 3:22). Together with this, we learn in Romans 8:15-17 that the faithful are "joint-heirs" with Christ." Therefore, if we are faithful we will inherit all that Jesus received from the Father, Godhood. In Revelation 3:21 we are given this staightforward promise: "to him that overcometh will I (Christ) grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame clear expression of the fact that the faithful will inherit all that Christ has received from the Father. The doctrine of man's divine potential is brought out beautifully in the rendering of Ephesians 4:11-13 found in the New Testament Version (NIV). These verses inform us that one of the reason the church is to have apostles, prophets, and other leaders is that they will help us to attain "the whole measure of the fullness of Christ" (NIV). Obviously, to attain the full measure of the Savior's fullness would be to achieve perfection....

Oh it's not Psalms 82:6..............Sorry

Hey Kona 0197; Thats your opinion, I'm a expert in teaching.... usc, Mont Wachusett College, Haifa University in Israel in ancient history and foreign languages. Graduated in Modern Standard Arabic and Egyptian dialect from the Defence Language ( Hebrew) Institute in CA. THE VERSE IS NOT OUT OF CONTEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Canuck Mormon; Keep your Head up..........

YouTube - LA Riots - Gunfight In Koreatown Thanks to my self for digging up this video from the 1992 Riots in LA - a reminder of how quickly society's rules can crumble. From 1992, what similar attitudes and actions could result from upcoming severe economic hardships. Such episodes of sporadic explosions of crime and violence in dense population zones coming back soon to a city near you?

I think your from Berkeley. is that right Holly.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John 10:33-36 records part of an exchange between Jesus and some Jewish scribes in which the Savior cited man's potential for Godhood in order to refute the change that He had committed blasphemy by claiming to be the Son of God. In refuting the scribes, Jesus quoted Psalm 82:6; where Elohim says, "I have said, Ye are gods; and of you are children of the Most High." There is a great of debate about the precise meaning of this Psalm in the Old Testament context. An analysis of that debate is beyond the scope of the present discussion. The most important thing about this verse is that Jesus interpreted it to mean that mankind had the potential for deification. Some commentators disagree and suggest Christ was quoting Psalm 86:6; sarcastically so as to mock and condemn the Jews who were challenging him. Among other things, advocates of this position point to the Savior's use of the word "called" and maintain that therefore Jesus was not teaching that man could actually be defiled. However, such an interpretation dose not fit the context of Christ's usage of the Psalm, and it takes the logical force out of his argument. John 10:33-36 reads as follows in the RSV: The Jews answered him, :It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, yourself God." Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, you are gods'? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken), do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, I am the Son of God?"" If we say that Psalms 82:6 was quoted merely to condemn the Jewish scribes, then the Savior's argument is deprived of any logical force. If Christ was not citing Psalm 82:6 to appeal to man's potential for divinization, then the scribes could very well have replied as follows: How does this Psalm help your case? If you're saying this verse does not mean we can become gods, and if you are only quoting it to label us as such in order to condemn us, than how does this Psalm mitigate your claim to be the Messianic Son of God, I.e., Jehovah come to earth? What difference does it make if men are merely called "god" and "son of the Most High," when you claim to be Yahweh himself (John 8:58)? Who cares what men are called, when you assert that the Father has placed "allthings" in your hands, thatyou are the key to eternal life, and that no one can come unto the Father except through you (John 3:35-36; 5:18-47; 8:13-42)? The plain sense of the Savior's reply to the Jews is that He was appealing to man's potential for Godhood to demonstrate the inconsistency of the charge that had committed blasphemy by claiming to be the Son of God. In other words, Christ was saying to his detractors, "Why do you accuse me of blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of God when all men are children of the Most High and have the potential to become like him?" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last edited by Mullenite : 04-17-2008 at 08:54 PM. Reason: word

John 10:33-36 records part of an exchange between Jesus and some Jewish scribes in which the Savior cited man's potential for Godhood in order to refute the change that He had committed blasphemy by claiming to be the Son of God. In refuting the scribes, Jesus quoted Psalm 82:6; where Elohim says, "I have said, Ye are gods; and of you are children of the Most High." There is a great of debate about the precise meaning of this Psalm in the Old Testament context. An analysis of that debate is beyond the scope of the present discussion. The most important thing about this verse is that Jesus interpreted it to mean that mankind had the potential for deification. Some commentators disagree and suggest Christ was quoting Psalm 86:6; sarcastically so as to mock and condemn the Jews who were challenging him. Among other things, advocates of this position point to the Savior's use of the word "called" and maintain that therefore Jesus was not teaching that man could actually be defiled. However, such an interpretation dose not fit the context of Christ's usage of the Psalm, and it takes the logical force out of his argument. John 10:33-36 reads as follows in the RSV: The Jews answered him, :It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, yourself God." Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, you are gods'? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken), do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, I am the Son of God?"" If we say that Psalms 82:6 was quoted merely to condemn the Jewish scribes, then the Savior's argument is deprived of any logical force. If Christ was not citing Psalm 82:6 to appeal to man's potential for divinization, then the scribes could very well have replied as follows: How does this Psalm help your case? If you're saying this verse does not mean we can become gods, and if you are only quoting it to label us as such in order to condemn us, than how does this Psalm mitigate your claim to be the Messianic Son of God, I.e., Jehovah come to earth? What difference does it make if men are merely called "goh" and "son of the Most High," when you claim to be Yahweh himself (John 8:58)? Who cares what men are called, when you assert that the Father has placed "allthings" in your hands, thatyou are the key to eternal life, and that no one can come unto the Father except through you (John 3:35-36; 5:18-47; 8:13-42)? The plain sense of the Savior's reply to the Jews is that He was appealing to man's potential for Godhood to demonstrate the inconsistency of the charge that had committed blasphemy by claiming to be the Son of God. In other words, Christ was saying to his detractors, "Why do you accuse me of blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of God when all men are children of the Most High and have the potential to become like him?"

John 10:33-36 records part of an exchange between Jesus and some Jewish scribes in which the Savior cited man's potential for Godhood in order to refute the change that He had committed blasphemy by claiming to be the Son of God. In refuting the scribes, Jesus quoted Psalm 82:6; where Elohim says, "I have said, Ye are gods; and of you are children of the Most High." There is a great of debate about the precise meaning of this Psalm in the Old Testament context. An analysis of that debate is beyond the scope of the present discussion. The most important thing about this verse is that Jesus interpreted it to mean that mankind had the potential for deification. Some commentators disagree and suggest Christ was quoting Psalm 86:6; sarcastically so as to mock and condemn the Jews who were challenging him. Among other things, advocates of this position point to the Savior's use of the word "called" and maintain that therefore Jesus was not teaching that man could actually be defiled. However, such an interpretation dose not fit the context of Christ's usage of the Psalm, and it takes the logical force out of his argument. John 10:33-36 reads as follows in the RSV: The Jews answered him, :It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, yourself God." Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, you are gods'? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken), do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, I am the Son of God?"" If we say that Psalms 82:6 was quoted merely to condemn the Jewish scribes, then the Savior's argument is deprived of any logical force. If Christ was not citing Psalm 82:6 to appeal to man's potential for divinization, then the scribes could very well have replied as follows: How does this Psalm help your case? If you're saying this verse does not mean we can become gods, and if you are only quoting it to label us as such in order to condemn us, than how does this Psalm mitigate your claim to be the Messianic Son of God, I.e., Jehovah come to earth? What difference does it make if men are merely called "god" and "son of the Most High," when you claim to be Yahweh himself (John 8:58)? Who cares what men are called, when you assert that the Father has placed "allthings" in your hands, thatyou are the key to eternal life, and that no one can come unto the Father except through you (John 3:35-36; 5:18-47; 8:13-42)? The plain sense of the Savior's reply to the Jews is that He was appealing to man's potential for Godhood to demonstrate the inconsistency of the charge that had committed blasphemy by claiming to be the Son of God. In other words, Christ was saying to his detractors, "Why do you accuse me of blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of God when all men are children of the Most High and have the potential to become like him?"

Hey Anthony B; A challenge... to read the Book of Mormon; Answer your on statement-Question. I have read and used the Bible in study all my life, and still do. In the supplement, the Book of Mormon there is a promise -Moroni 10: 3-5 .... a personal promise ..... [Verse 4] says, "And when ye shall receive these things, I world exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true, and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, He will manifest the truth of it unto You, by the power of the Holy Ghost."

Yes Personal Revelation, Amen!

AN UNPAID CLERGY In the Savior's ancient church, local priesthood leaders without pay. Bishops, elder, and other local church officials were not salaried. Bible Passage: Matthew 10:8 Acts 20:33-34 1 Corinthians 9:18 1 Peter 5:1-3 In the LDS church, local leaders are not paid. They hold normal jobs and do their church work on their own time. The same was true of local leaders in the ancient church. Bo Reicke says the following about the clergy at the time of 1 Peter. It may be noted here that there not yet any paid offices in the church. the care of the congregations was assumed by voluntary functionaries............ As historian Robin Fox points out, Dionysius (A.D. 200-264), Bishop of Alexandria, reminded some Egyptian villagers that to learn secular philosophy they would need money, but that Christian elders preached in village "for no fee". Fox further notes that "the notion of fixed clerical salaries was considered an outrage as late as A.D. 200, in both Rome and Asia". In the New Testament church, the apostle had the right to be compensated for basic living expenses and travel cost; however. They frequently chose not to exercise it. Presumably, this right could extend to the seventy, and perhaps to other regional officers with extensive or pre-third-century patristic sanction for the sectarian practice of salarying each local leader of a congregation..............

Three Degrees of Glory Following the judgment, according to modern revelation, a vast majority of the inhabitants of this earth will be assigned to one or another of three kingdoms, worlds, or degrees of glory. These are termed the celestial, the terrestrial, and the celestial. The law by which we are quickened at the time of resurrection will determine the world to which we shall be assigned. Let us hear the word of the Lord on that subject: For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body. They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened. Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness. And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness. And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness. And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received. (D. & C. 88:27-32.) Celestial Glory To the Latter-day Saints our interests lie in the celestial glory. In fact, we don't have much interest in the other two degrees because we are assured through revelation that those who go to the celestial degree of glory and receive exaltation are members of the Church of the Firstborn who have lived by every word that has come from the mouth of God, being humble, and faithful in all of their activities here in life. We are heirs, therefore, of celestial glory. The gateway into celestial glory is faith, repentance, baptism, and confirmation; and then, of course, as the Saints enter the kingdom of God by compliance with the foregoing requirements, they make their calling and election sure by rendering obedience to all the ordinances and doctrines of the gospel of Jesus Christ from day to day throughout the entire course of this mortal life. These are they who shall dwell in the presence of God. Exaltation In the celestial degree of glory there are three kingdoms or three degrees. The highest of these constitutes those who receive exaltation or eternal life. They are they who live the law of the priesthood or the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, known as celestial marriage. The Latter-day Saints, as well as the people throughout the various ages of the world who have belonged to the true Church of Jesus Christ, who have been married by the power of the priesthood and have obeyed all the priesthood covenants that they have entered into, having lived in accordance with all the teachings of the gospel, these are they who shall be exalted in the celestial realm. The Lord has given his law on this doctrine as follows: . . . verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; [and if they commit no sin to break that seal]; . . . they shall pass by the angels and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fullness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. Then shall they be gods. (Ibid., 132:19-20.) The Prophet Joseph Smith explained that this continuation of "the seeds" forever and ever, meant the power of procreation; in other words, the power to beget spirit children on the same principle as we were born to our Heavenly Parents, God the Eternal Father and our Eternal Mother. Therefore, a man cannot receive the highest exaltation without a woman, his wife, nor can a woman be exalted without her husband. That is the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the plan of salvation. Eternal life is the greatest gift that God has in store for those who love him and keep his commandments, and you and I know how it can be attained. In the celestial degree of glory there are two other divisions. They are occupied by angels of God. These angels are the ones who did not abide by the law of celestial marriage; however; they accepted Christ and lived good lives, but they did not accept all the gospel ordinances. This is the word of the Lord on that subject: For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever. (Ibid., 132:17.) Eternal Life My brethren and sisters, where do we go when we die? As Latter-day Saints we hope some day to go not only to the celestial degree of glory but also to receive exaltation in his kingdom, i.e., to receive eternal life. If we accept all the ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ and obey all of the teachings of the gospel; if we abide by the law of celestial marriage; if we pay our tithes and offerings to the Lord; if we are clean and pure in thought and habit, thereby keeping our bodies as temples of God, clean and pure as he wants us to do; if we live virtuously and in every way serve him, then at the great judgment day we will hear the voice of God say to us, words to this effect: "Well done, my beloved servants. You were faithful in the few, small things that I gave you to do in mortality, you may, therefore, now come into my presence." And to continue to paraphrase the D&C, "Then shall they pass by the angels and gods who are stationed there to their exaltation, and they shall become priests and kings to he Most High God. They shall become as he is." In other words, they shall have eternal life. Then shall the oath and covenant of the priesthood be brought into effect which you and I have made, each of us who holds the

Spirit World Every person who dies will go into a world known as the spirit world. Those who have lived righteous lives here in mortality will find there a paradise, a heaven, a place of peace, of joy, of opportunities, of progression. On the other hand, those who have lived wicked lives will find themselves in the spirit world somewhat as if they were in prison. In fact, the prophets speak of that world as a prison. We read in Second Peter that at the time the Savior's body lay in the tomb, his spirit went to the spirit world and opened the doors of the gospel to those who were drowned in the flood at Noah's time. Those people had been detained from hearing the gospel, being in prison during that long period of time of more than two thousand years. Some people that I have talked to have the concept that when they die that suddenly, their sins will all be washed away, and they will become white and glorious, pure and clean, in somewhat of an automatic or miraculous way. Such is not the case. According to the ancient prophets, especially the Book of Mormon, sustained by modern revelation, when we die, if we are filthy, we are filthy still. The fact that we die doesn't change us one iota. You and I are dual personages, possessing a spirit body which dwells in a physical body. Death is the separation of that spiritual body from the physical body. All of our good deeds, our bad deeds; the knowledge we have attained; our habits, our evil and good inclinations, are resident in the spirit. The spirit personage contains the personality, or, in other words, the spirit is the real individual. Having an understanding of this doctrine, therefore, we know that when we die we take with us to the other world exactly what we have made of ourselves while living in mortality. There is only one way that I know whereby you and I can purify ourselves, and that one way is through repentance. The things that we should repent of here in mortality will probably be easier to repent of now instead of putting them off until we go to the other world and have to overcome those handicaps at that time; and so I would say, "today is the day to prepare to meet God. Permit me to quote the words of an ancient Nephite prophet on that subject: For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men, to perform their labors. . . . if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. (Book of Mormon, Alma 34:32-33.) A Probationary State Every person after he or she leaves this life will stay in the spirit world a certain length of time in order to continue to prepare himself to come into the presence of God. In that spirit world there is a lot of activity. The gospel of Jesus Christ is being taught to those who have not received the plan of salvation here in mortality, and especially to those who previously have not had opportunity. When those people in the spirit world have received the gospel, the temple work that mortals do for them consummates the work for their acceptance of Jesus Christ and the plan of salvation there in the spirit world. The spirit world, then, is another probationary state in order that the sons and daughters of God who will might prepare themselves to meet him. Universal Resurrection Following our sojourn in the spirit world comes the resurrection. There will be a universal resurrection of every man, woman, and child. Just as we all die, so must we all rise from the grave. Amulek declared: . . . I say unto you that this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption. (Ibid. 11:45.) Jesus Christ came into the world and died for the sins of the world. He broke the bands of death and was resurrected, being the first fruits of the resurrection. He set into operation the law of resurrection and thereby gave as a free gift to every man, woman, and child, resurrection, or, in other words, immortality. Thus we will all, the wicked as well as the righteous, enjoy immortality. The Great Judgment Following the resurrection comes the great judgment. Every person who has lived and shall live in this world-every man, woman, and child-shall stand before the judgment seat judgment seat of God to answer for the life he or she lived here in mortality, and also to answer for the life lived in the spirit world. Alma, that great Nephite prophet, was preaching this doctrine one day to his people. He explained to them that every man, woman, and child, "both bond and free . . . both the wicked and the righteous," would be resurrected and required to stand before the judgment seat of God. There they would be held accountable for the lives they lived while in mortality, for every act they committed, yea for every word they spoke, and for every thought that they thought. You and I are responsible beings, accountable for the things that we think. To quote: For our words will condemn us, yea, all our works will condemn us; we shall not be found spotless; and our thoughts will condemn us. (Ibid. 12:14.) Alma also explained on that occasion that God would divide the people into two groups. He would look upon the members of one group and smile. They are the righteous. He would proclaim to them that they could enter into his presence. Great would be their joy. And then he would look upon those who composed the other group, and they should be so ashamed because of the lives they had lived in mortality that they would cry to the mountains to come down and hide them from the presence of God. But such would not be the case. They would have to stay in his presence while being judged, and every knee would bow and every tongue would confess that he was the Christ; that his judgments were true and just. And then they would hear the voice of God tell them to depart from him because of the sinful lives that they had lived. This is the group spoken of in the scripture, declaring that they would weep and wail and gnash their teeth because they had lost the great blessing of celestial and eternal life.

Immortality of Man Deep in the heart of practically every person who has lived in this world, God has implanted a hope-yes, more than that-even a strong desire, that he will live on after death. The immortality of man is an unusual concept. The study of ancient religions reveals the fact that any religion that was popular with its devotees and became a religion of prominence attained that popularity and prominence as a result of assuring its members that following their sojourn on this earth they would experience a happy, glorious, and blessed immortality. The same fact holds true today. When Father Adam and Eve were upon this earth, through his Only Begotten Son, God revealed to them the gospel of Jesus Christ; and as one of the most important doctrines in that gospel he gave them the assurance that if they and their posterity would live in accordance with all the teachings, doctrine, and ordinances revealed to them that some day they would be able to come back into his presence. There they would not only experience immortality but they would also enjoy the great blessing of eternal life. Throughout the various ages when God has revealed gospel principles to his holy prophets, he has always given them that one great idea that men will live on throughout the eternities. A little over a hundred years ago when the gospel plan of salvation was being restored to the Prophet Joseph Smith in our dispensation, the various Christian denominations held the concept that men would live on after death, and yet their understanding of the unseen world was very hazy and vague. They had little, if any, information regarding our pre-mortal life, and their post- mortal life concepts were very erroneous in many respects. It became necessary, therefore, for our Father in heaven to reveal again to earth an abundance of knowledge relative to the immortality of man and point out the pathway to follow in order to gain eternal life. As a result of God's concern over his children, the Prophet Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon. It contains much doctrine pertaining especially to post-mortal life. He also received the wonderful revelations recorded in the D&C. Section seventy-six is the greatest revelation regarding post- mortal life to be found recorded in any book in the world. Joseph receive the Pearl of Great Price in which we find much information on the council of the gods and our pre-mortal existence. Resurrection of Jesus Christ We not only have the teachings of the prophets and revelation regarding the immortality of man, but we have a lot of absolute evidence. The greatest of all evidence that you and I are immortal, that we will live on after we leave this life, is the fact that Jesus Christ, following his crucifixion, rose from the grave. He appeared to many people in and around Jerusalem, thereby establishing the fact that he was immortal and extending the promise to humanity that as he had risen from the grave so would all men. We read in the book of Matthew that at the time of the Savior's resurrection the graves of saints who had lived godly lives while in mortality were opened, and they appeared to many people in and around Jerusalem. These saints could have been such characters as Father Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Noah, and the other holy prophets and their wives who belonged to "the Church of the Firstborn." Following his resurrection, Jesus Christ also appeared to the Nephites who lived in this land. On one of those occasions he told them to bring their records to him. As he read that record, he asked them if Samuel the Lamanite had not prophesied that when Christ was resurrected the graves of the ancient saints would be opened and that they would appear to these Nephite people. He was informed that such had been the prophecies and that those prophecies have been fulfilled. Thereupon he instructed the Nephite historian to write that great prophecy and its fulfillment in their records in order that you and I in the latter days might know for a surety that we would live on after death; that we are immortal beings as well as mortal. Latter-Day Testimony Over one hundred years ago Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith on several occasions. Christ was a resurrected, glorified celestialized God when he made those appearances. Interspersed among those visitations, other beings who had lived upon this earth in ancient days appeared to the Prophet Joseph. Such persons as the Angel Moroni, Peter, James, and John, John the Baptist, Moses, Elias, Elijah, Michael, Raphael, and others visited Joseph Smith. Each appearance, of course, added testimony upon testimony regarding the immortality of man and the eternal life that the righteous ones who live upon this earth will eventually attain. In the doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we have a rather comprehensive understanding of our pre-mortal life. We are taught that you and I are brothers and sisters; in fact, all the men, women, and children who have ever come into this world are brothers and sisters, and they were all sons and daughters of God the Eternal Father and our Eternal Mother in that celestial spirit realm before we came into mortality. We are taught that we were born into that spirit realm as babies, and that we grew to maturity there, undergoing the various experiences which were there for us prior to our coming to mortality. Also through revelation we have learned that the gods held a council preparatory to the peopling of this earth in which the plans for mortality were discussed and proclaimed. Our Destination Probably of all the human beings who have lived upon this earth, at least a vast majority of them have asked this question of themselves: "Where do we go when we die?" I would say to all Latter-day Saints on this occasion that the place to which you and I go when we die will be determined, to a great extent, upon how we live while we are here-I mean our ultimate destination, the goal that we are striving for. We have the true plan of salvation, the gospel of Jesus Christ, with all the ordinances of the gospel, all the teachings, including the Holy Priesthood after the Order of the Son of God. All of these things which are necessary to bring us back into the presence of God and exalt us in celestial glory are ours. We know, therefore, what will be our destination as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints if we will live by every word that comes from the mouth of God. On the other hand, with all the power, priesthood, ordinances, doctrines, opportunities, and blessings that are ours, we als know that if we sin sufficiently, we have the power to condemn ourselves to the greatest of depths, even to cast our souls down to hell. The prophets have proclaimed that where much is given much is required at our hands. To the Latter-day Saints death is not such a serious thing. It doesn't make a lot of difference how long we live in this world. The thing which is of vital importance, however, to you and me is how we live. Are we prepared to meet the. Eternal Father and his Only Begotten Son? If death should come upon us any minute, are we prepared to go into the other world and eventually come into the celestial kingdom of God? That should be your goal and that should be my goal. We should live such a clean and pure life each day, rendering obedience to all the principles and ordinances of the gospel to such an extent that we would be ready to die whenever death comes upon us.

Hemidakota; you are right ..............

Do you think that God once was a man? Lorenzo Snow, a President of the Church, once said "As man now is, God once was: as God now is, man may be." This controversial passage is clearly applicable to Christ himself, a God who became mortal for a time and yet was still and is still God. His work made it possible for us to become as he is, in a sense, for we can receive glorious resurrected bodies (Phil. 3:21; 1 Cor. 15:40-45), we can become "joint-heirs with Christ" (Romans 8:14-18), we can "put on the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:3-10), and we can become "like him" (1 John 3:2). Indeed, Christ even went so far as to say, "Ye are gods" (John 10:34), in reference to the divine potential of human beings. While He and the Father are the one true God, whom we will always worship, He does want us to become more like the Father (Matt. 5:48) and the possibility is there because of Christ. Thus, thinking of Christ and our relationship to Him, what Lorenzo Snow said is accurate. However, it appears that Lorenzo Snow's quote also applies to the Father, indicating that He also experienced a period of mortality, but we know nothing specific. But before you let the idea of "God once being like man" offend you, remember that it is explicitly true about Christ Himself. If Christ were the same being as God the Father, then it would also be true of the Father as well, so non-LDS critics who accept the doctrine of the Trinity shouldn't get so upset. Of course, we believe that God and Christ are separate individuals, one in purpose, heart, and mind. But, in the spirit of pure speculation, let me ask if it is possible that Christ, during His mission on the earth, was doing that which He had seen the Father do? In John 5:19, Christ said "The Son can do nothing, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." Some people have speculated on what is meant by John 5:19 and on what Lorenzo Snow meant, but we do not know and I get very nervous when people pretend they know. Certainly there are many difficult and foolish questions which can be asked in this arena. The important point is that God, Christ, and man are of the same "species," and that man has divine potential to become more like Christ and the Father (e.g., see Romans 8:14-18; 2 Peter 1:4-10; 1 John 3:2). This concept was understood by the early Christians, as show above. Knowing who Christ is makes me very suspicious of anyone who says that we will become EXACTLY like Him. The Bible teaches that we can become "joint heirs" (Rom. 8:14-18) and can become "like him" (I John 3:2) and indeed, need to become like him (Matt. 5:48) and one with him (John 17:21-23). Stronger still, Paul in Philippians 2: 5-7 seems to urge us to pursue that goal, not through puffery, but through humble service: "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant...." However, I sense a big difference between the "small g" gods that Christ mentioned (John 10:34) in speaking of the potential of humans (my view) and God the Eternal Father, who is the one and only everlasting God (see also I Cor. 8:5,6). The reference to humans as potential "gods" is clearly meant in a limited sense, but the word used is still "gods." Obviously, we know too little to explain anything in depth about the next life and about "the glory that shall be revealed in us" (Romans 8:18). We are like microbes looking up through the microscope and speculating about the scientist who observes us. We are children, following after our wise and mature Father, knowing little more than a young child does of the things of God. This we know: the glory is to the Father (and Christ) forever.

A War of Ideologies The war in heaven was a war of ideologies; it was a war to determine how men would he saved; and so it is still the warfare of the world today. “There was war in heaven. That war was a war of words; it was a conflict of ideologies; it was a rebellion against God and His laws. Lucifer sought to dethrone God, to sit himself on the divine throne, and to save all men without reference to their works. He sought to deny men their agency so they could not sin. He offered a mortal life of carnality and sensuality, of evil and crime and murder, following which all men would be saved. His offer was a philosophical impossibility.” Satan wasn’t cast out of heaven for voting the wrong way; most of the people did the first time. The second time Satan refused to accept the verdict. He was going to resort to violence with a third of the hosts of heaven; therefore, he was cast out in a twinkling. There was no war in heaven; the word that is used is polemos. Joseph Smith explains that very well. Satan was cast cut for refusing to accept the popular vote. Our moral agency was so important that it became the focal issue over which the War in Heaven was fought. If we felt that moral agency was important enough to fight for before we came to earth, we must then jealously guard our agency and not thoughtlessly relinquish our freedom of choice to others. Finally, after a mighty struggle, there was a great victory by the Savior’s righteous “soldiers of God” (D&C 76:44 LDS) which is one of the meanings of the word, Israel. Two-thirds finally ratified the Savior’s plan, whereupon Lucifer and one-third of the Father’s spirit children were cast out. However, it serves God’s purposes to allow these rebellious spirits to operate on the temporal earth during part of the Second Estate. (Revelations 12:12; Jude, verse 6) Nevertheless, their doom is to eventually be cast into outer darkness and suffer what is called “the second death” (D&C 76:36-37 LDS). When the teaching and training of the First Estate were completed, we were ready for the plunge into the testing or probationary existence which is called the Second Estate.

The War in Heaven The crisis which is mentioned in scripture as “the war in heaven,” (Revelation 12:7) occurred during a special council which was called by the Father to select the “Redeemer” who would be required for the perfecting of the Second Estate. Before any selection was made, Lucifer was the first to speak up. However, he did not volunteer to be the Redeemer because he said he had a new plan that would not require a Redeemer. He then presented a ridiculous scheme based on his recommendation that the Father set up a heavenly dictatorship that would not allow anyone to sin in the Second Estate. He reasoned that if no one were allowed to sin during the Second Estate there would be no need for a redeemer with all of that terrible suffering connected with the Atonement. Satan felt that the genius of this plan was the marvelous idea of temporarily suspending free agency during phase III of our eternal progression. If his plan had been adopted, here is what we assume would have happened: Each person would get his or her assignment. Each person would then be compelled to fulfill his or her assignment. No disorder would be allowed. No disobedience would be allowed. There would be no sin. There would be no injustice. There would be no failures. Under this plan, all would return to the Father untainted, therefore all would be saved. None would be lost. In short, this was a guaranteed, no-fault, eternal life insurance program. It is interesting that the Greek philosopher, Plato, reflected some of these same ideas in proposing what he thought would be an ideal society. He said: “The greatest principle of all is that nobody, whether male or female, should be without a leader. Nor should the mind of anybody be habituated to letting him do anything at all on his own initiative, neither out of zeal; nor even playfully. But in war and in the midst of peace — to his leader he shall direct his eye and follow him faithfully. And even in the smallest matter he should stand under leadership. For example, he should get up, or move, or wash, or take his meals ... only if he has been told to do so. In a word, he should teach his soul, by long habit, never to dream of acting independently, and to become utterly incapable of it.” Thomas Jefferson called Plato’s theories “nonsense.” John Adams waded through all of his writings and said: “My disappointment was very great, my astonishment was greater, my disgust shocking.” The Freedom Factor The Father’s Firstborn held out for a Second Estate with everyone enjoying free agency. In fact, this was the Father’s program similar to that which had been used throughout the eternities. That is why the Firstborn, or Jehovah, said: “Father, thy will be done” (Moses 4:2 LDS). But a free society is a very risky society. If all are free to make their own choices, we are bound to have a certain amount of disorder, a certain amount of injustice, and a broad differential in obedience to God’s commandments. To put it bluntly, some make it, some do not. That is why it is risky. When the “freedom plan” of Jehovah (or the Savior) was chosen by the Father, Lucifer was outraged. He felt his 100 percent guaranteed, no-fault insurance program was so brilliant, innovative and efficient that he thought the Father would embrace it with animated enthusiasm. In fact, he wanted to be sure he got the credit for it and asked that the Father transfer His “honor” to him (Moses 4:1 LDS). With so much arrogance and conceit festering within him it was almost predictable what would happen when Lucifer’s plan was rejected. Lucifer rebelled. He tried to overthrow the Father from his throne and make himself the master of the Second Estate (Isaiah 14:12-14; D&C 29:36 LDS). So the battle was joined, and the conflict began. But the war in heaven was not fought with swords and spears. It was fought with polemics,debate, and testimony-bearing (Revelations 12:11). In this contest Lucifer’s plan was the easiest to sell because it offered a 100 percent guarantee of getting through the Second Estate unscathed — and all of this by merely giving up free agency for awhile! On the other hand, the most important argument for the supporters of Jehovah was the fact that if Satan lost, none of his followers would participate any further in the Father’s plan of eternal progression. They would not get physical bodies, and they would be cast out of the Father’s program of eternal progression forever (D&C 76:44 LDS). No Neutrals in Heaven There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, and men receive rewards here based upon their actions there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. Historical researcher and author Helene Holt eloquently illustrates the extreme danger neutrality poses: Neutrality refuses to keep evil in check. Evil unchecked will destroy good. That’s why neutrality is so dangerous. Moreover, real neutrality refuses even to identify evil as evil, in which case there is no activity to promote good as well as no activity to prevent evil. By default, neutrality is the great sympathizer and nurturer of evil. . . .The most deadly enemy of righteousness is not evil, it’s neutrality. Neutrality, compromises, taints and ultimately destroys truth as the following example illustrates. When you comprise any food with poison, death is the only victor. Similarly in any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that benefits. The evil drains and feeds on the good until it is totally weakened, corrupted, and absorbed by it. Light and darkness cannot mix in any degree; for even good, when it is compromised through neutrality becomes contaminated and perverted, and therefore becomes evil. Thus, all were required to choose between the plan put forth by our Savior and the one proposed by Lucifer. It is known that Lucifer’s ambition and lust for power were the reasons for his ultimate downfall. Satan would not repent of his sin. Therefore, he lost his place among the children of God. It is very interesting to note in the Collected Works of Hugh Nibley-LDS this descriptive information documented in the Coptic “Discourse of Abbaton” that traces back to books deposited by the apostles in the archives of the early church in Jerusalem, concerning his loss of exalted position and authority in the pre-existence: God saw that Satan, because of his boundless ambition and total lack of humility, could no longer be trusted with celestial power and commanded the angels to remove him from his office. This ordinance they performed with great sorrow and reluctance: They “removed the writing of authority from his hand. They took from him his armor and all the insignia of priesthood and kingship.” Then with a ceremonial knife, a sickle, they inflicted upon him certain ceremonial blows of death which deprived him of his full strength forever after. (14a.) Other accounts say that after these cuts he retained only one-third of his former power, even as he was followed by one-third of the hosts. And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out., that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceivcth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him (Revelation 12:7-9). “Scriptures reveal that Lucifer sought vigorously to amend the plan by destroying the agency of man.” . . . “Satan’s selfish efforts to alter the plan of God resulted in great contention in heaven. . . This war in heaven was not a war of bloodshed. It was a war of conflicting ideas — the beginning of contention.” The War in Heaven is a point in view. There, even before the earth was created, Lucifer, the son of the morning, led the rebellious and those who sought to usurp the power and the authority of God, to utter defeat. He was the leader of one-third of the heavenly hosts and leads those who today clamor against the righteous and revile the good and the pure. And there was war in heaven: What kind of war? The same kind that prevails on earth; the only kind Satan and spirit beings can wage — a war of words, a tumult of opinions, a conflict of ideologies; a war between truth and error, between light and darkness, between the gospel of Jesus Christ, with all its saving power, and the false religions of the world, which have a form of godliness but are devoid of saving grace. And the battle lines are still drawn. It is now on earth as it was then in heaven; every man must choose which general he will follow.

The Rapture - An LDS Perspective The concept of the rapture wasn't really popularized until 1908 when an evangelist named William Blackstone wrote a book called "Jesus is coming" that sold more than a million copies. He went out and found all sorts of quotes and ideas from former bible historians and scholars to support the idea of the rapture (the entire concept is built around scriptural versus, and I know Isaiah was a big influence on the theory). The word "rapture" didn't occur in print until a year later (1909) with the Scofield Reference Bible. In its purest form, the concept of the rapture basically says Christ will remove the righteous from the earth prior to his coming to burn the wicked. There are, however, two very different schools of thought on "the rapture": Those who believe the rapture we occur PRIOR to all of the horrible tribulations and events described in association with the apocalypse (they are dubbed "pre-tribulation rapturists") and those who believe it will occur AFTER all of the trials (post-tribulation rapturists). The LDS peopel like to dismiss the idea of a rapture completely, except our doctrine clearly places us in the camp of the post-tribulation rapturists, since we know Christ WILL remove the righteous from the the earth immediately prior to the millenial burning. Other post-tribbers have slightly different ideas about what sequence of events will lead up to the rapture, but for LDS people, there can be no debate. It's interesting that for a pre-trib rapture, there is a surprising amount of scriptural evidence to support it -- they simply misunderstand the meaning of the versus. No single point of doctrine has done more to prevent good Christian people from preparing for the last days than the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture. I think MOST good Christians believe Christ's return (and the rapture) are imminent, but have NO preparations whatsoever -- What's the point in preparing if God intends to remove them from the earth and they don't have to suffer through all of that, anyway? Satan is a very clever person, isn't he??

TempleStudy.com Ordinances as Signs Posted: 13 Apr 2008 11:28 PM CDT Today in priesthood we talked about chapter 7 in the Joseph Smith manual. It is about “Baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost.” One thing that struck me as I read the chapter is the number of times that Joseph referred to baptism and some of the other principles and ordinances as signs: God has set many signs on the earth, as well as in the heavens… Upon the same principle do I contend that baptism is a sign ordained of God, for the believer in Christ to take upon himself in order to enter into the kingdom of God… It is a sign and a commandment which God has set for man to enter into His kingdom. Those who seek to enter in any other way will seek in vain; for God will not receive them, neither will the angels acknowledge their works as accepted, for they have not obeyed the ordinances, nor attended to the signs which God ordained for the salvation of man, to prepare him for, and give him a title to, a celestial glory… Baptism is a sign to God, to angels, and to heaven that we do the will of God, and there is no other way beneath the heavens whereby God hath ordained for man to come to Him to be saved… The Lord says do so and so, and I will bless you. There are certain key words and signs belonging to the Priesthood which must be observed in order to obtain the blessing. The sign [taught by] Peter was to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins, with the promise of the gift of the Holy Ghost… …but he could not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost until after he was baptized. Had he not taken this sign or ordinance upon him, the Holy Ghost which convinced him of the truth of God, would have left him. I think this is enlightening. All of the ordinances and covenants of the gospel include (and are) signs. Signs are physical actions which demonstrate to God that we have, indeed, entered into the covenants that we say we have. We can’t just say we’ve made a covenant with God with our lips (which is what God said in the First Vision was occurring in the world - “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me” (JS-H 1:19). Whenever true covenants are made with God, established physical signs have accompanied them. The sign of baptism is the physical action of being immersed in the water. The sign of receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost is the laying on of hands, as is ordination to the priesthood. The sign of the sacrament is the blessing, administering, and partaking of the emblems or symbols of Christ’s flesh and blood. The sign of blessing the sick or afflicted is the anointing with consecrated oil and the laying on of hands. The sign of the sealing ordinance in the temple is kneeling at the altar with your spouse and other sacred actions. The signs of the covenants of the endowment are likewise recognizable to those who have participated in them. Because these signs always are physical, perhaps that is one of the reasons that a disembodied spirit cannot perform them alone. They must be done vicariously, or by proxy, by a living person, one who can perform these signs with a physical body in behalf of the dead. Post from: Temple Study - Sustaining and Defending the LDS (Mormon) Temple Ordinances as Signs CLICK on PICTURE to enlarge............

Articles of Faith The Articles of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535–541 1 WE believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. 2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression. 3 We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. 4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. 5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof. 6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth. 7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth. 8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. 9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. 10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory. 11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. 12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. 13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Which Church is Right? There are three major Christian churches which claim to be the Savior's only true church. The issue boils down to one crucial point: Has the Savior's church continued on the earth without interruption from the time it was founded? Or, did the original church fall away and hence need to be restored through a latter-day Prophet? Three choices: Of the major Christian churches, only three claim to be the one and only true church of Jesus Christ----Roman Catholic Church, Easter Orthodox Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. For several centuries the Catholics and the Orthodox Church were part of one "Universal" church. Due to doctrinal disputes and other conflicts, they eventually split into two separate churches and have remained divided ever since. Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy teach that the Lord's church has remained on the earth since the time He established it, and both claim to be that very same church. Mormonism, on the other hand, teaches that the Savior's ancient church fell away not long after the death of the apostles and that it was restored 1830 through a latter-day prophet. Seventeen points of the True Church: Does your Protestant Faith have and use all of these true points. 1. Christ organized the church Eph 4:11 2. Must bear the name of Jesus Christ Eph 5:23 3. Must have a foundation of Apostles and Prophets Eph 2:20 4. Must have the same organization as Christ's Church Eph 4:11-14 5. Must claim divine authority Heb 5:4-10 6. Must not have any PAID Ministry Isa. 45: 13 Peter 5: 2 7. Must Baptize by Immersion Matt 3: 13-1 8. Must bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of Hands Acts 8: 17 9. Must practice divine healing Mark 3:14-15 10. Must teach that God and Jesus Christ are separate and distant individuals John 17:11 and John 20:17 11. Must teach that God and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bones. Luke 24:36-39 and Acts 19:11 12 Must be called by God Heb. 5:4, Exodus 40: 13-16, Exodus 28:1 13. Must claim revelation from God Amos 3:7 14. Must be a missionary church Matt 28: 19-20 15. Must be a restored church Acts 3:19-20 16. Must practice baptism for the dead 1 Cor. 15: 15-16 and 29 17. By their fruits ye shall know them Matt. 7:20 If you don't find all of this true points in your faith, please consider the LDS Church!