bytor2112

You mean like Britney refusing to pay Kevin? She's already in some kind of prison isn't she?....mental prison I mean.

Abortion has been a hot thread lately....so perhaps this would be a good analogy. Let' say, that I am a woman and I go to my Bishop and tell him that I want an abortion because I am afraid that I might not survive the birth and he says ok...you should do that....so you have the abortion and it turns out that he was wrong....he should have asked you to see another physician or whatever or perhaps referred you to the Stake President. You will not be accountable for acting on your Bishop's council........make sense?

Not accountable for my sin mind you, just accountable for the council he gave.

Yep....sure do. Not accountable for my sin mind you, just accountable for the council he gave. Why? Because he holds the keys of Priesthood authority....the authority to act in God's name.

You mean just because I believe it...that's not proof........:o Are you sure?? Oh and you failed to acknowledge that you and I agree on the child support issue....just saying.

Very true.......we will stand at the great judgement bar of Christ alone. However, if I follow my Bishops council in some spiritual matter and he was wrong....it will be the Bishop who is held accountable by the Lord and not me. Prophets aren't always speaking as Prophets......often times as men...fallable men. So again I say, for spiritual guidance I do folow the Prophet.......for other things, I tend to work those things out myself.....with the help of the Spirit.

Whoa, whoa, whoa......please don't misunderstand me. I COMPLETELY agree with you. Men absolutely should be required to support there children...whether they are wanted or not....and if they don't, they should be jailed for the low lifes that they are. See my original post and you will find that I made that very clear. I was only asking if you thought it was fair......sorry for the misunderstanding. :) And while I am a mortal......I am also eternal and I believe that my choices have eternal consequences. Eternal perpective is my belief that all my choices in this life should be centered on the fact that we are eternal......you too Otterpop.

Regarding matters of spiritual signifigance.....yep. I follow the council of the Prophet. If he says that we should be prepared and live within our means...then I strive to do that. If he says that pornography destroys lives and is a pernicious evil and should be avoided...I trust that he is correct. If he says that purple ties should always be worn on Thurdays...then not so much. We do have an ecclesiastical heirarchy in the church. Other churches do as well. In matters related to the Spirit we rely on our leaders for guidance. If I have been commiting some very serious sins like adultry.....I would confess to my Bishop and rely on his authority as a representative of Christ through the keys of Priesthood authority that he holds to guide me through the process of repentance. I am guessing Catholics are very similar as are other churches. Make sense?

Hmmm......thats's not really fair. Having sex doesn't always lead to pregnancy.....does it? From an eternal perspective.....is it better to have the child in the event of unwanted pregnancy.....yes. Is it always convenient? No. I look at things from the perspective that we are eternal beings...sons and daughters of God and all here for the same purpose.....ultimately to return to the presence of Heavenly Father. Abortion doesn't help us to return. It is not a Christ like action and I want everyone to return home. This world is full of distractions....full of deceptions. I know you disagree with me Otterpop, but my heavens 42,000,000 abortions per year and 93% Of them performed for social reasons and inconvenience.

No say so before....but financial responsibility after?

Perhaps you might want to say Orthodox Christianity....we LDS take offense to not being referred to as Christian......:) I have no problem offering you the same courtesy despite our differing beliefs.

Peter....you really have to stop saying ONLY 3%......that equates to a whole lot of abortions. and that is so misleading. Three percent of all services performed....that is hardly a fair comparison when you are comparing it to HIV testing or breast cancer screening....apples and orange trees. During the year of 2005-06, besides reporting that 264,943 children were killed by medical and surgical abortions performed by its clinics, it also reported a record income, including a record amount of taxpayer funding. Planned Parenthood’s total income for the year was $902.8 million, with a $55.8 million profit. “The final category of Planned Parenthood revenue sources is you and me — the American taxpayer,” Sedlak continues. “I am sorry to report to you that Planned Parenthood reported receiving taxpayer funds totaling $305.3 million — a whopping $32.6 million (12 percent) more than last year. This means that taxpayer money now accounts for 34 percent of Planned Parenthood's income.”

Let' say a couple engages in sexual intercourse and the result is pregnancy. The female doesn't want to have a child.....the encounter was a mistake and the end result unwanted and wants to terminate the pregnancy. However, the male feels strongly that abortion is immoral and asks the female to have the child...his child....and he will adopt. Should he have legal rights to the child? Certainly there are plenty of instances where women have babies and the man wants nothing to do with them or the baby and yet they have to pay support...and rightly so I might add. Also, what about parental notification? Should minors be allowed to have abortions without parental consent. Would you let your daughter have any kind of elective medical procedure without your consent?

I am fairly certain that if you are faithful and are not able to be sealed to your husband in this life....you will have the opportunity to be sealed to a worthy Brother in the millenium. Just as members who have been sealed, but the spouse falls away will have the opportunity as well. The Lord is into families.....:)

Me neither...but it happens. Why women have abortions 1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient).

I see your point......this is however the Churches position.

A response to the Thread title regarding importance of the family: We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children. All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose. In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshipped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize their divine destiny as heirs of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally. The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God’s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife. We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God’s eternal plan. Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. “Children are an heritage of the Lord” (Psalm 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, and to teach them to love and serve one another, observe the commandments of God, and be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations. The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed. We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets. We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.

BIBLE DICTIONARY Aaronic Priesthood As a result of the failure of the Israelites to observe the gospel law administered by Moses under the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood, the Lord gave an additional law of performances and ordinances and “confirmed a priesthood also upon Aaron and his seed, throughout all their generations” (D&C 84: 18) to administer it. This priesthood was of lesser power and authority than the priesthood of Melchizedek, and was used to administer the outward ordinances, particularly as characterized by the ceremonies of the law of Moses. The terms Aaronic and Levitical are sometimes used synonymously (D&C 107: 1, 6, 10), although there are some specific differences in the offices existing within the Levitical Priesthood. For example, the lesser priesthood was conferred only upon men of the tribe of Levi. However, within the tribe, only Aaron and his sons could hold the office of priest. And, still further, from the firstborn of Aaron’s sons (after Aaron) was selected the high priest (or president of the priests). Thus Aaron and his sons after him had greater offices in the Levitical Priesthood than did the other Levites. The privileges of the priests were greater than those who functioned in the other Levitical offices, and a distinction between the two is evident when the scripture speaks of them as “the priests and the Levites” (1 Kgs. 8: 4; Ezra 2: 70; John 1: 19). The priests could offer sacrifices for the people, burn incense on the altar, and teach the law, whereas the other Levites were employed in more menial tasks, such as the housekeeping of the tabernacle, keeping oil in the lamps, transporting the Ark of the Covenant, taking down and setting up the tabernacle when moving, and related tasks in assisting the priests (Num. 3: 5-10; Num. 18: 1-7; 1 Chr. 23: 27-32). The account of Korah’s rebellion against Moses and Aaron delineates some of the differences between the duties of the priests and those of the Levites. It also shows the error of aspiring to offices in the priesthood. Levite companions sought for the high priesthood, but as they were unworthy, the Lord destroyed them (Num. 16 - 18). The Aaronic (or Levitical) Priesthood thus functioned only within the tribe of Levi, and the right to have it conferred upon one was determined by lineage and worthiness. As part of his rationale that the law of Moses was fulfilled, Paul makes a point of the contrast between the lineal requirement of the lesser priesthood and the nonlineal Melchizedek Priesthood, which was not confined to those of one tribe (see JST Heb. 7: 3; Heb. 7: 11-14). The lineal restrictions of that Aaronic (Levitical) Priesthood were lifted when the law of Moses was fulfilled, and thereafter the offices of the priesthood were conferred upon worthy men without limitation to the tribe of Levi. This appears to be the case in the Church as recorded in the New Testament and in the Book of Mormon (where there were no Levites), and is presently operative in the Church as it has been restored in the latter days. The Aaronic Priesthood continued “with the house of Aaron among the children of Israel” from Aaron until John the Baptist, who was a priest in the Aaronic order (D&C 84: 26-27), and by this authority he prepared the way for and baptized Jesus. Nineteen centuries later this same John was sent from heaven as a resurrected being to confer the Aaronic Priesthood upon Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. This was done on May 15, 1829, near Harmony, Pennsylvania, along the banks of the Susquehanna River. At that time John outlined some of the duties, privileges, and limitations of the priesthood, specifying that the Aaronic Priesthood holds the keys of the ministry of angels and can perform baptisms by water, but has not the authority to confer the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Aaronic Priesthood functions under the direction of the Melchizedek Priesthood (D&C 13; JS-H 1: 68-72). Although the Aaronic Priesthood is conferred in the Church today without restriction to the lineage of Aaron, the keys of this priesthood rightly belong to the firstborn of the seed of Aaron, and in the restoration of all things the office of bishop (president of the priests) will once again be conferred on one of that lineage, as it is designated by revelation to the president of the Church (D&C 84: 14-21; D&C 107: 13-17).

Continue in faith. Pray and have faith that God will soften there heart. We will all be judged by what was in our hearts as well as our actions. It is very painful when family members stray.....but there is always hope. Short answer..... I would not stop practicing my faith regardless........

No.....we believe that as well.

From Environmental Heresies, by Stewart Brand. For 50 years, the demographers in charge of human population projections for the United Nations released hard numbers that substantiated environmentalists' greatest fears about indefinite exponential population increase. For a while, those projections proved fairly accurate. However, in the 1990s, the U.N. started taking a closer look at fertility patterns, and in 2002, it adopted a new theory that shocked many demographers: human population is leveling off rapidly, even precipitously, in developed countries, with the rest of the world soon to follow. Most environmentalists still haven't got the word. Worldwide, birthrates are in free fall. Around one-third of countries now have birthrates below replacement level (2.1 children per woman) and sinking. Nowhere does the downward trend show signs of leveling off. Nations already in a birth dearth crisis include Japan, Italy, Spain, Germany, and Russia--whose population is now in absolute decline and is expected to be 30 percent lower by 2050. On every part of every continent and in every culture (even Mormon), birthrates are headed down. They reach replacement level and keep on dropping. It turns out that population decrease accelerates downward just as fiercely as population increase accelerated upward, for the same reason. Any variation from the 2.1 rate compounds over time. That's great news for environmentalists (or it will be when finally noticed), but they need to recognize what caused the turnaround. The world population growth rate actually peaked at 2 percent way back in 1968, the very year my old teacher Paul Ehrlich published The Population Bomb. The world's women didn't suddenly have fewer kids because of his book, though. They had fewer kids because they moved to town. Cities are population sinks-always have been. Although more children are an asset in the countryside, they're a liability in the city. A global tipping point in urbanization is what stopped the population explosion. As of this year, 50 percent of the world's population lives in cities, with 61 percent expected by 2030. In 1800 it was 3 percent; in 1900 it was 14 percent. The environmentalist aesthetic is to love villages and despise cities. My mind got changed on the subject a few years ago by an Indian acquaintance who told me that in Indian villages the women obeyed their husbands and family elders, pounded grain, and sang. But, the acquaintance explained, when Indian women immigrated to cities, they got jobs, started businesses, and demanded their children be educated. They became more independent, as they became less fundamentalist in their religious beliefs. Urbanization is the most massive and sudden shift of humanity in its history. Environmentalists will be rewarded if they welcome it and get out in front of it. In every single region in the world, including the U.S., small towns and rural areas are emptying out. The trees and wildlife are returning. Now is the time to put in place permanent protection for those rural environments. Meanwhile, the global population of illegal urban squatters--which Robert Neuwirth's book Shadow Cities already estimates at a billion--is growing fast. Environmentalists could help ensure that the new dominant human habitat is humane and has a reduced footprint of overall environmental impact.

The alternative? You mean like...not having an abortion? Treating sex as sacred and teaching that we must all be accountable for poor decisions? These are alternatives as well...no? Safe, clean partial birth abortion? You doubtless meant clean safe abortion....yes? I think we can all agree that procedure is almost always unnecessary. For the record...I am not arguing for abortion to be illegal. In certain instances an abortion may be appropriate....rape, incest, mother's health. But that accounts for a very small percentage of abortions. Abortion is used primarily as a means of birth control as evidenced by the statistics that I posted. These clinics are not going away and abortion is not going to cease.......BUT, I don't want to contribute my tax dollars......to support the cause. Veiling the evil with...."look at the good the organization does" doesn't work for me. As I posted in a different thread......Please feel free to contribute your personal income if you choose.....but don't force me to support it through federal funding. Obviously, there are as many or more that support abortion as ardently as you do.....let them give there money and it will serve the same purpose. If the argument that has been made that denying funding would also deny other than abortion services...then find a new organization to support that offers other than abortion services.

Adding to my post regarding guidance from The Prophet......we are also very fortunate to have some very clear guidance from our Catholic friends and the Pope.:)

Bahahahahhahah .....A pretty good piece of comedic fiction..... and the idea of overpopulation was debunked as junk science years ago. Forty-two million abortions per year doesn't count as abuse? :eek: Particularly since 93% are done for convenience? Funny, how your opinions outweigh the churches opinions. I wonder if your logic will pass with the Saviour at the great judgnment bar?