Fiannan
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Posts posted by Fiannan
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Huh? Meaning that if polygamy is brought back, then after that one special woman who doesn't judge, all the other wives will be judgmental? Or do you mean that if polygamy comes back, then you don't need to find any special woman?
You lost me on that one, fiannan.
Strange, thought it was pretty simple to grasp.
The point is, it doesn't matter if you go into a singles ward and 80% (hypothetically speaking) of the females will only date an RM. You only need one out of the entire ward (heck, LDS universe) that will like you, connect to you, and marry you. I would hope there would be enough diversity that in a ward or stake you could find a few who will find you interesting and then only one that you want to get sealed to. There is no consensus in the LDS world in regards to issues like whether one needs to bag a RM -- I have known females who don't want to marry a RM.
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You know, until polygamy comes back you only need to find one special woman who cares more about you and your spiritual qualities than the status of being able to say "I bagged a RM,".
This situation is akin to dropping out of college and setting up a business. In a short time the person becomes quite wealthy, starts dating a woman and then she finds out you don't have a college degree -- so she drops the man because she has been taught that having such a degree is a measure of one's success.
The point of that illustration? Simple, having served a mission may increase your chances of developing spiritually but it's not necessarily a good indication of how one will develop for the rest of one's life. And many men who never served missions for a variety of reasons now serve the Church in its highest callings. So there's the analogy, not being interested in a man because he doesn't have a collge degree, but still is successful, is akin to not being interested in a man who is spiritual but not a RM.
Now again, that being said we all discriminate in the dating process. I know one guy who vowed never to date anyone shorter than him because he didn't want his kids to be short like he was. Is that okay? Sure it is, we have the right to say we will only date people of (fill in the blank).
Like I said,
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A Finnish friend of mine in college got her patriarchal blessing and was listed as being part of the tribe of Mennassa so I suppose there may be some link -- Lehi's family was not all of the descendants of Joseph.
Genetics would make it hard to confirm or denigh anything though. Joseph married and ancient Egyptian -- who knows if many of those peoples exist today in Egypt. I read a study on Egyptian genetics that claimed there was no evidence that Negro blood existed in modern Egyptians but that to me seems very unlikely since Egyptians were invaded by Nubians a few times and some pharoahs were black. Also, black slaves were imported into Egypt and even though in the Muslim times many of the males were castrated the women must have contributed genes. Sometimes Egyptians are born with red or blonde hair (probably throwbacks to earlier peoples since pharoahs were often quite light -- Rameses was a red head) but then again they could be from Jewish or ancient Libyan or...
If one wants to really see how genetic markers are not that good at determining movement just look at Finland. Russians have probably made their mark there but Finnish tribes also contributed to Russia's gene pool. Then when we consider movements in modern times one can see that one of those popular DNA tests to see where your ancestors came from can get very sketchy results since even in more recent history people have moved around and contributed to gene pools in ways that make it impossible to say "Here's where my ancestors originated from:"
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There are two primary reasons Muslims leave their countries and move to Europe.
The first is to escape countries that are either theocratic or military dominated and allow for little freedom. Most of these people come from the more educated classes. Many also can find better opportunities for professionally trained people in Europe.
The second group consists of people who can find a better living on the welfore programs offered in much of Europe. Many do wind up with jobs but these jobs are generally very low-end in nature.
The problem is, many of the young people are finding themselves not all that into integrating into the European way of life. Many from educated, and generally secular, families are finding more meaning offered by religion than their parents did. They have grown up in a culture (at elast in Scandinavia) that expects teenagers to be having sex -- and that one should celebrate homosexuality as a wonderful thing and abortion as a cornerstone of western democracy. They also see a people so afraid of offending people that they are getting rid of many of their traditions. So what you have left is a cultural vacume in which the people around you have no real meaning of life or purpose. Sp many Muslim youth turn to something with answers.
Many others, mostly from the poorer immigrants, feel trapped in a system that sees them as something different. They often stop trying in school and build up antagonism towards the Europeans. This has erupted in violent riots in places like France that are similar to the race riots we sometimes see in the United States.
I personally don't blame the Muslims for not wanted to integrate into European culture. Americans I know who live in Scandinavia joke that the only reason they apply for duel citizenship (most live there due to marriage to Scandinavian women) is for easier travel in Europe as well as not to have to mess around with visas if they choose to move to another EU country. Their #1 loyalty is tot he USA. And most Muslims I know who live in Europe identify with their homeland much more than the country they may have been born in.
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Iranian President's Christmas Message
Ironic that many leaders of Christian nations try to give Christmas messages that are watered down to the point that they are just a "holiday greeting". Hope this at least can help clear up the misconception that Muslims don't believe in Jesus.
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An atheist, fully disgusted with the Christmas holidays, decides to go hiking in the mountains on Christmas day. While he's hiking a huge grizzley bear wanders onto the path, notices him and starts to approach.
Suddenly the atheist thinks fast and says a prayer -- "God, if you are there, and I seriously doubt you are, but if you are there please demonstrate some of that awesome power your followers claim you have and make that bear into a nice Christian bear."
Then, all of the sudden an angel appears, grins and sighs, and says "Well, guess what my brother, your wish has been granted."
Then the bear gets on its knees and folds its arms and bows its head.
The atheist then says, "Never seen a bear do that before...what's the matter with him?"
The angel replies "Oh, nothing is wrong...he's just saying grace before dinner!"
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God decides to take a break and spend some time in Miami. He sits on a park bench, dressed in conventional attire, and looks out over the beautiful beach scene. Soon a couple of middle-aged Jewish women come over and sit down and start talking.
Jewish woman #1: "What's the world coming to? My son always was a good Jewish boy. He went to temple all the time, loved to read his torah, and I thought he'd someday become a rabbi. Then he went off to college and within a year announces that he's become a Christian!!!
Jewish woman #2: "Yes, I know what you mean. My son started dating a Chrisian girl when he was in medical school. Next thing you know he goes and announces they are engaged and he's decided to become a Christian as well!!!
Then God replies: "I know exactly what you women are going through. I have a son and when I sent Him on a religious mission to Israel of all places..."
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Well I have no idea.
Apparently it offends some Muslims.
I mean, I can understand why - who wants their child learning songs about Santa if they're a muslim?
Christmas Carols, in my experience, don't much testify of Christ.
Why do people assume Muslims are against Christmas? True, Islam does not celebrate the Pagan holiday of the Winter Solstice co-opted by the Catholic Church and called Christmas but neither did most Christians until more recent times. Did Joseph Smith's family have a Christmas tree? No they didn't -- in those days you might have people over for a family meal but that was the extent of it.
That being said, many more Muslims are celebrating Christmas -- when the sunami hit Thialand and Indonesia some imams claimed it was punishment for Muslims celebrating Christmas.
I have never heard of Muslims calling for an end to Christmas. Muslims put more emphasis in the koran on Mary and the birth of Jesus than the Bible does. They just don't see Jesus as the Son of God, just a major prophet.
The people who get all bent out of shape over Christmas tend to be white, secular, wimpy, "celebrate diversity" types who'se extent of celebrating diversity might entail picking up on the local men on the beaches of Beleze while on holiday (if they are females...oh wait, maybe...) or buying some ethnic CD or some other ritual to prove how open-minded they are. They feel they have to protect people from being offended even though the vast majority of those people are not offended by traditions. The problem is, they think everyone loves them for their efforts yet the people they seek to "defend" don't have any particular love for them nor do the people who enjoy the traditions their parents and grandparents passed on.
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Reminds me of a joke I once heard.
God decides to take a break and spend some time in Miami. He sits on a park bench, dressed in conventional attire, and looks out over the beautiful beach scene. Soon a couple of middle-aged Jewish women come over and sit down and start talking.
Jewish woman #1: "What's the world coming to? My son always was a good Jewish boy. He went to temple all the time, loved to read his torah, and I thought he'd someday become a rabbi. Then he went off to college and within a year announces that he's become a Christian!!!
Jewish woman #2: "Yes, I know what you mean. My son started dating a Chrisian girl when he was in medical school. Next thing you know he goes and announces they are engaged and he's decided to become a Christian as well!!!
Then God replies: "I know exactly what you women are going through. I have a son and when I sent Him on a religious mission to Israel of all places..."
Just something on perspectives.:)
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Where in the Scriptures does it say that we should deny our services to those who don't fall in line with our beliefs? (I'm not talking about eHarmony, who was niche-marketing to the straight dating scene and had to do a huge revision of it's business structure to accomodate the gay community) You can disagree with someone's choices and still take pictures of them. Do these photographers also turn down clients who have had sex outside of marriage, or are divorced, or had kids out of wedlock, or are getting married in a non-religious ceremony?
I think it's safe to say that necessary jobs that involve life and death (i.e. police, fire and medical) should serve everyone regardless. However, even in extreme cases there is often room for choice. For instance, when I was still in high school I read about a big convention at the local nudist resort near my home town. The newspaper reported that a nude skydiver was injured and required medical assistance. The story reported that the resort asked that the med team (this was a bit before advanced EMT units I assume) respect the event and shed their clothing when they came out. The local hospital dispatched a team but had asked for volunteers willing to go nude and a couple of the women at the hospital volunteered to go treat the man -- the paper at least made sure the women were shown with their backs to the camera.
A photographer for a wedding is NOT as needed a service as a man getting some broken bones skydiving. So why not employ the same respect of choice and just get another photographer willing to cover the event? Besides, 90% of photography is being able to capture feeling in a picture and do you really want someone taking your pictures if they feel what you are doing is sinful? You can't tell me the pictures are going to be as nice in such an event.
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I think that one of our current challenges, collectively, is to explore the idea of neurodiversity. There are traits, like ADHD or autism spectrum issues, that are a "disorder" as far as getting along in the greater society, but are an asset in other areas. You'll see a LOT of Asberger-ish traits among scientists and engineers, as those careers demand the focus and precision that those traits bring.
I don't have a great deal of insight into this, but I do know that proper treatment can help a person make the most of who they are. Best wishes!
I am inclined to agree. Anyone here ever spent much time in China? O doubt they even have a category called "aspergers" since the culture thrives on the kind of meticulous orgnaization, dedication to rules, and desire for detail and structure. Oh, by the way, the Chinese only have one university that offers any program in psychology so I think we see how they prioritize things.
I really have a hard time saying aspergers is a disorder. The only problem it might cause is in one's relationship to others as well as trying to understand the self. One of the key themes in the series "Dexter" is Dexter Morgan trying to understand how to fit in -- and while the show seems to present this crime fighter as a psychopath the characteristics written into the character are much more in line with aspergers.
ADHD -- in an era that demands creativity, the ability to move from one project to another (multitasking) and even unconventional ways of thinking we might consider the blessings of this "disorder" rather than it being seen as a problem.
As for other "disorders" even something like psychopathic behavior has its merits. Many of our best emergency room doctors, lawyers and CEOs are what is known as secondary psychopaths. And it would be very hard to believe one can make it far in American politics today without being a secondary charismatic psychopath.
There are reasons God made people different.
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I would liken my stance on using drugs to change behavior in kids with the morality of forcing your kid to drink beer. Let's say you and your 6 year old are lost in the desert. It's your third day out and you are fearing for your survival. Then you meet up with a group of people having a keger. The only liquid they have is beer and nobody plans on driving home (thus giving you a ride) until at least 8 hours later.
Is it moral to have your child drink a couple bottles of beer? I'd say yes.
Then let's say you are at the beach and run out of soda or water. You and your child are both thirsty and your friend offers your child a beer. Is that morally justifiable to use in that case? I would say not.
That's how I feel about using drugs. If I had a child suffering from cancer I'd be the first to find him some marijuana if it helped them. Now we have a push-pull situation involving a "disease" (ADHD) that is diagnoses with pensil and paper questionaires and observations. Both are highly subjective tests and thank goodness that's not the way we diagnose other diseases.
Pretend we have a 6 year old in a traditional classroom. The teacher asks a question about deserts and the child raises their hand and starts asking what kinds of lichen from arid areas could grow on Mars. If the teacher has received information that the kid is talented and gifted she will respond to the question positively. If not, she may feel he has trouble staying on task.
Let's say the kid is not listed in TAG and continues to make these sorts of associations. He raises his hand every time the teacher asks a question and eventually sees that she no longer calls on him. He then gets distracted and goes into his own little projects at his desk. This is frustrating for him and eventually the teacher gets cross with him and demands he stays more focused. He responds in an angry tone that he'll do as he pleases.
Guess the kid is on his way to be tested, isn't he?
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Margin, perhaps you have assigned me into the category of being totally against using medication which is not my position at all. My position is that we are doping kids today at an alarming rate. Why? Kid's physiology is no different than it was 10 or 20 years ago. What is occuring is that we have created criteria that encourages (insures) that a large segment of our population is going to be listed as having some sort of disorder. Since we have also become a drug dependent society we assume then that taking drugs will solve problems. So now we have everyone trying to explain behavior that is perfectly natural in human expression as falling into a "disorder" category and then medicating it. ADHD is not only too broad in it's criteria, it's also culturally dependent -- if you are a set of quiet parents and you have a loud and active kid you are more likely to think your kid has something wrong with it than if you and your spouce are loud and active and give birth to children with the same pattern. If you live in a society that promotes quietness (even soem people mistakingly thinking quietness is a form of reverence .. pure hogwash) then if your kids don't share the same view then maybe it's easier to think something is wrong with them. Then you get 'em tested and just going to the doctor with a "problem" pre-disposes the doctor to feel something must be wrong -- just like when many doctors give patients antibiotics when they have viral infections...I mean, the patient is here and maybe the antibiotics won't hurt or anything. Remember, doctors have been criticized for this practice for quite some time now.
So when I read of some school districts where 20% or more of the boys in 1st. grade are on ritalin I have to question what we are doing. As the post illustrates that I praised from applepansy what in the world is a doctor thinking when giving a 2 year old anti-depressants?
So if I saw the judicious use of mind-altering medications as we see in most of Europe, where evaluation of any and all disorders is much more strict, then I would see no problem. Of course, in those countries you have government regulation of major drug companies so they are kept under check. In the USA you have a profit-driven drug industry that makes money if more and more doctors are prescribing their drugs -- and representatives from drug companies that make used car salesmen seem shy and restrained visiting doctors constantly praising the virtues of their medications.
Not a good situation.
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Making Christmas into an orgy of consumerism (when it's supposed to be about celebrating Jesus) makes as much sense as serving a big ham for Christmas dinner since Jesus never in his life on earth partook of pork.
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They forgot to add "Much Ado about Nothing," in their list of Beckinsale movies. That's where I fell in love with her.
Elphaba
Fid she do Underworld 1 and 2? Number 1 was okay but I thought number 2 was a pretty good vampire flick.
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Reading through this thread has left me concerned and saddened. After listening the the Frontline program I'm even more convinced that individuals and parents need education and less judgement.
We are all individuals having individualized experiences in this life. What works for one person doesn't always work for another in standardized or alternative medicine. The key is to find what works for you or for your child. Finding that key requires education. Doctors do not have the time to do all the education necessary and nobody knows you better than you do, except maybe your Mom. :)
Looking back. . . . my oldest son was diagnosed by his teachers with ADHD. I took him to the pediatrician who was convinced that teachers diagnosing was out of their scope of practice. He refused to medicate my son based on a teachers observations. On one hand I'm glad the doctor didn't medicate my son. On the other hand I might still have my son here with me if we had medicated him, but then I question "would I have really had my son?".
The ideal solution in our case would have been for me to have home schooled our children. At the time we didn't see that as an option. If I could do things over. . . I probably would.
I worked for a year in Psych as an Intake Coordinator. I saw a child psychiatrist prescribe adult antidepressants for a 2 yo. That child did not need medication, he needed to be loved in a stable home enviroment. I often saw children medicated because Mom or Dad had a mental illness that was being untreated because they saw the child as a problem, but the psychiatrist couldn't get mom/dad to accept that the issue may have been them. I also saw children who were in distress and not only needed but wanted the help that medications offer.
If a child is having behaviorial issues, I believe the first course of action should be prayer. Only God can tell you which course of action is right for you and/or your child.
I believe there is a place for modern medications. I believe there is a place of alternative medicine. I believe that there is an agenda to make money on these modern medications and I believe there are people working hard to make money on the alternatives. We are in a tough world.
Studies are showing that our thought patterns can control the brain chemistry. And just last Sunday our Gospel Doctrine teacher (Professor of Biology) read us an article that said science has now proven that genetics is changeable based on our experiences. (I have asked him for a copy of this article.)
I KNOW that our Spirits can control the physical. That's what we are here on this earth to learn. How this fits in with teaching a child with behavioral issues is something I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on. We all have to learn how to let our Spriits be in control and parents are required to not only learn that but teach their children how too.
I pray that somehow we can learn and teach our children. I pray that the suffering happening in families because of these issue can be navigated without destroying those families.
applepansy
No reply necessary here. Just wanted to emphasize how well thought out and insightful applepansy's post is.
And thanks for the reference to your watching the Frontline special that I originally posted. It's rare in American media to find truly thought-provoking news media and investigative reporting (Frontline is pretty good as is anything produced by John Stossel) but the specials Frontline has done on this issue are fantastic.
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First, the article on brain scans said that the research was preliminary and they could not really extrapolate anything from what this particular study showed. Second, other studies on things like blood flow, while getting attention on the Dr. Phil show, are likewise not proven to show anything useful.
Other points that have to be considered is that the brain is an ever-changing organ. Start learning a different language and it changes shap and weight distribution. Go into a stressful situation and chemical and structural changes occur. Heck, start a relationship with someone and/or start having sex with someone and the brain changes dramatically. Get pregnant and huge changes occur.
Point is, the brain is like your absomin in a way. Start out with a flat abdomin and then stop exercising or start eating more (or be deprived of sleep) and you will get beer gut in time. Resume healthy living and you can go back to the original look. We don't usually think of the brain as ever-changing because the fleshy part is covered by a cranium. So there are other variables that may be involved here. And even if there wre differences that still does not warrent classifying people as different based on some behavioral characteristics that in one environment may lead to stress but in another environment may be highly beneficial for survival.
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No it is not well documented. Hey, people still debate on disorders that are more easily classified (like if borderline personality disorder may actually be Asperger's but expressed differently in women as opposed to men. Then there are debates on what constitutes a psychopath -- even that may overlap at times with Aspergers.
But now we have ADHD (and as the Frontline documentary indicates a rush to diagnose bi-polar in kids too young for kindergarten). The diagnosis for ADHD has skyrocketed yet there is serious debate over the validity of diagnostic measures, whether there is an organic basis for it, or if it does exist, the number of kids given false diagnosis for it. Then we have the debate as to how to treat it.
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"The broad selection of targets indicates that ADHD does not follow the traditional model of a "genetic disease" and should be viewed as a complex interaction among genetic and environmental factors. Even though all these genes might play a role, to date no single gene has been shown to make a major contribution to ADHD." Wikipedia -- ADHD
Sounds like your Wikipedia article's way of saying they don't have a clue as to what constitutes ADHD or how people allegedly with the condition differ from people without.
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One of my sons really good friends is on a mission in Russia right now and he says the scariest thing for the people in general is the russian mafia. (just thought I would throw that in)
I went to lunch with a friend last week and she made a statement that from what she sees that we are losing our compassion for each other from what it used to be. (that is in general) But it did make me think, I wonder if it is true?
Most of the so-called Russian mafia is not even ethnically Russian. Just wanted to clarrify that.
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One of the signs of the time that was also seen in the last days of the Nephite empire. Even my daughter, who stopped in this Thanksgiving, mentioned she wants to move out of Utah due to members pride.
Better run when they start eating people. The last straw for the Nephites losing devine intervention to protect them was when they started eating Lamanite virgins.
Then again, there are things in modern society that come close -- yet they occur with much less statistical frequency in Mormon communities.
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Why does every single subject go back to your sperm donation logic? Seriously it is getting old. I'm surprised that you haven't posted something on the Youtube Christmas thread about it. Seriously.
Because it illustrates the entire concept of genetics so well -- hey, be careful with the Christmas thing, you might consider the entire process involved in the conception of Jesus. Given what we know of His conception...
That's a topic most Christians and Muslims don't want to think about for obvious reasons.
It all goes back to the genes. And the reason I brought it up was because there are people who actually consider not having children since they don't want to pass on some condition that in reality may not even warrent being classified as abnormal. And often people with these "conditions" will say it seems to run in their family -- of course, personality traits do run in families but to say the trait is negative? Again, if these were totally accepted conditions you would think that geneticists and fertility doctors would not want to pass them on to prospective parents who are looking for totally healthy offspring, wouldn't you? They screen out people with diabetes, bad eyesight, recognized mental illnesses so why not these "new" conditions that have been caught up in the modern collective psychie?
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Mental illnesses such as depression and ADD/ADHD for example, are legitimate illnesses much as diabetes and cancer are.
Depression yes. ADD/ADHD are not mental illnesses even if you accept there is such a thing (there is no concensus in the mental health community in regards to classification or if you can actually list these "conditions" as true disorders).
Strange, if you fill out a questionare dealing with your mental health history (at a doctor's office or even if you are a donor) there doesn't seem to be any box for ADD/ADHD -- or I have not seen any. On that last part I have a great enterest in genetics and also in the modern process of egg and sperm donation. I have seen a few forms for donors and one would think if ADD/ADHD were truly a condition recognized by doctors (especially those involved in creating babies) they would not be letting people who might have this condition go in and father (or mother) dozens of children, now would they? They seem to screen for lots of other things after all and not allow donors with those negative characteristics.
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not to mention the trauma the messed up boys pass on to their wives and their children... what is it to the 3rd and 4th generation?
So boys who went through traditional Catholic schools are just psych cases? Are you saying that our fast evolving dope-based society offers real hope for the future?
And people think the Amish and the FLDS are missing out on the wonders of modern society.
Once you turned forty did you notice
in Advice Board
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It doesn't have to be. :)
You may not be able (yet) to stop the clock but you can slow it down a lot. Just pick an age and maintain the vitality that you had at that age. It does wonders.
Most anti-aging experts will say that you can keep your body about 15 - 20 years younger physically than your chronological age. Eating right, staying active, and challenging your mind and your mindset (don't dwell on age or how others your age live).
My heart was tested a couple of years ago and turns out I was in the top 10%. And even in the upper 40s I still have problems sometimes with some acne (oily skin). Hair color hardly different than it was in my 30s. Then again, I like to challenge my limits (when I was in Tibet last spring the elevation where I was staying was 3600 meters but I still went running -- even though one of the people I was with who was half my age was really scared of me doing this yet her fears were totally unjustified. In fact, I was one of the few westerners who stayed totally healthy when doing an overnighter at a monestary nearly 4000 meters high where they were doing sky burials).
Hope I can maintain the slowing of the age thing. I guess it just takes a psychological and physical commitment to do so.:)