Maureen

I can't remember if I first heard about the plagiarizing or read about it - either way that does not negate the possibility that parts of the BofM were plagiarized.M.

srm - Huh? IMO this is an idiotic question. I can credibly speculate that JS wrote parts of the BofM by plagiarizing Isaiah. JS had access to a Bible. Your question makes no sense.M.

I confess that I have not memorized my Bible from page to page, so I had to go check if this was real or one of Snow's clever creative writing exercises.I'm going to have to dust off my Bible and start reading more regularily; I'm missing all the good stuff. M.

Using a source that has no credibility is logical? I am not interested in what the BoM has to say because there is no evidence to suggest it is anything more than a work of fiction. Then don't use the BofM yourself; but who are you to tell Mormons on a Mormon message board that they can't use it because you don't believe it is valid. What makes you so special on this message board Trident? M.

So because I am on a mormon board I am expected to believe everything mormon? Jesus is a historical figure, the BoM is not a historical book because it has not been proven to be. I don't believe something just because it has been published, there is a lot of crap in print. Trident - No one said you had to believe Mormon scripture. But it's only logical to expect Mormon's are going to use their scripture on a message board because they believe it.M.

Maybe Peace understands the trinity better than most Mormons.My understanding of the trinity places Jesus as the person while God is the entity. There is one divine entity (nature) but 3 persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. So we can say that the Father is God, Jesus (the Son) is God and the Holy Spirit is God. God in 3 persons. Not sure if that's how Peace sees it, but I agree with her that Jesus is God. M.

These are some excerpts from the book The Prophet Puzzle. Personally I see JS as a very complex personality. He may have had little schooling but nevertheless was quite intelligent and creative. The Prophet Puzzle - Interpretive Essays on Joseph Smith EDITOR'S INTRODUCTION To some degree, Joseph Smith used ambiguity—especially regarding his own life—in similar ways. Taking into consideration the "deeply suspicious world" into which the Mormon prophet "introduced his Adamic restoration," writes Paul Johnson, "we must conclude that Joseph Smith expected to arouse accusations of fraud" by leaving many details about his story unanswered. Throughout his life Smith said very little, for example, about the translation process that resulted in the Book of Mormon, and he offered multiple versions of his "first vision" experience.(5) Indeed, Smith at some points knowingly fostered an "aura of ambiguity" around himself: such a cloak of secrecy made possible the institution in Illinois of rituals designed to protect the political and sexual peculiarities being introduced by Smith and others. Smith's legacy, Johnson concludes, is a "game," an "enigma that demands (as is demanded of no other major American religious figure) that we guess at the authenticity or fraudulence of the founder and the visionary," even a century and a half after his death.(6) In Bercovitch's terms, Smith uses ambiguity to demand "faith" in an "ideal prospect that impels us toward an ever-larger truth"—the truth of his own prophetic calling. 10. THE PSYCHOLOGY OF RELIGIOUS GENIUS: JOSEPH SMITH AND THE ORIGINS OF NEW RELIGIOUS MOVEMENTS Lawrence Foster …Religious genius, especially the prophetic leadership of founders of new religious movements, has proven even more difficult to evaluate with any degree of openness and objectivity. Adherents to new faiths often accept at face value prophetic claims to having had direct communication with the divine, while naive critics and apostates in equally one-dimensional fashion tend to see nothing but fraud and delusion in such claims. Neither approach begins to do justice to complexities that characterize the classic foundational phenomena that noted American psychologist William James explored so convincingly in his still unsurpassed analysis of the psychology of religious genius, The Varieties of Religious Experience.(1) This essay focuses on one particularly well-documented case of religious genius—that of Mormon prophet Joseph Smith, founder of a rapidly-growing religious movement that now numbers more than 10 million members worldwide. Joseph Smith's motivation and the psychological dynamics that made possible both his successes and failures have proven highly controversial, both in his own time and today. Critics of Smith such as Fawn Brodie have often found him opaque and disingenuous. They have speculated that his was a highly conflicted personality with enormous powers to rationalize his own impulses as being the will of God. Devout Latter-day Saints, on the other hand, have often ignored whole areas of Smith's personality and actions, creating an almost unbelievable paragon who could do nothing wrong as he consistently attempted to do God's will. Despite the apparent polarization of opinion, recent scholarship increasingly has seen Smith as a complex figure who nevertheless creatively attempted to come to terms with and fuse seemingly conflicting elements within his personality and his world into a new synthesis.(2) The analysis that follows is an admittedly speculative personal reflection on elements that need to be kept in mind in understanding the psychological dynamics of Joseph Smith's creativity….. http://www.signaturebooks.com/excerpts/pro....htm#psychology M.

LOL! What? Is Snow some sort of pathological litter bug? Who is he to apologize for something he knows nothing about. He has your side of the story and that's it. He sounds a little sanctimonious, IMO. M.

santuaryave - No need to apologize if you are being sincere with your questions. I am usually not the suspicious type but I was not sure about your style of questioning. This board has had its share of trolls and made up characters (just ask Redbone...er...I mean Snow). Ask away if you don't have any dishonest ulterior motives. :) M.

I smell a troll. I am also a little suspicious, but I'm willing to give sanctuaryave the benefit of doubt for the time being. M.

Jenda - That is very interesting. What do you mean by the manuscripts?M.

Oh those evil Baptists. Where's the Spanish Inquisition when you need it? Casual dress and atmosphere? That's just wrong, we all know that fashion and appearance is very important to God.Aquabat - If this is your attitude towards the Baptists and their style of worship and your fiance is from a baptist background I would reconsider marrying her. If your plan is to change her just before or after you're married your expectations will be sadly frustrated. Have a talk with her about what you both believe and how you both understand God (to the best of your ability of course). Don't assume, talk. M.

Well then I'm sure you won't be offended when people who have had bad experiences with Mormons think you are garbage. (Do you really think Proud Duck is garbage? I have a hard time with that.) LOL...I am not offended when someone says all mormons are garbage...cause I have been abused by garbage all of my life...: ) So...about PD. If he is a lawyer...i believe he is garbage. I'm shocked Peace. So does that mean you would never associated with a lawyer? - ie Mortgage, Wills, defending yourself if accused of a crime. M.

Erin - Are you saying that there is absolutely nothing on TV nowadays that you enjoy watching? Not even the sitcoms? Or a really good movie?M.

Well Duck, if it's any consolation...I think you have one of the greatest minds in the Western Hemisphere and your posts are always intelligent, thoughtful and insightful. (Okay, Snow is funnier, but you still mark pretty high in that category too.) There's your ego stroke for the day. (Do you have your own webpage? Do tell!) I absolutely agree with curvette regarding TheProudDuck's posts. I always enjoy reading your posts PD. I found your website. I think you need to advertise. Don't know how you'd go about doing that though. Word of mouth, I suppose. I will bookmark your site and peek at it every so often. M. PS - I also enjoys curvette's posts too. I'm sure everyone has their favorite posters that they like to read the best.

You've already seen it Peace. It's not coming to the big screen until Feb. 25th, how did you see it so soon?M.

We can also see Abraham offering up Isaac as a foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice. God is offering up his son for the sins of the world.M.

Abraham offering up Isaac is a good example, I think. The only thing that for me that makes this a little less awful is the idea that Abraham and God's relationship was unique. Abraham had such complete trust in God that when God asked for a human sacrifice he possibly thought it was out of character but went ahead trusting God would still keep his promise in the end. God had promised Abraham that he would be the father of nations. A few things could have been going through Abraham's mind. He could have thought that God would bring his son back to life or give him a different alternative at some point. He said to Isaac that God would provide the sacrifice, so he wasn't totally hopeless that he was loosing his son completely. Genesis says that this was a test for Abraham. Who did he love more, God or Isaac. OT stories are so far removed from our time and culture that it's sometimes easy to just read them and not see the terrible circumstances or almost unbelievable situations that are portrayed in them. Today we would see Abraham actions as coming from a mentally deranged person. I can't imagine "the God of my understanding" testing me like Genesis says Abraham was tested. M.

I'm going to side with Joe and AS here. Another way to look at this situation is as follows: 1) A couple paid their tithing and because of it a deer is dead and a man's car is in need of repair which in turn will raise his car insurance premiums. 2) A couple did not pay their tithing and because of it a deer did not die and the man with the car has no car repair and insurance problems to deal with. Are you really sure that this couple's tithing action and the dead deer are related? M.

I'm sure this question was directed at AS, but I'll answer for myself.I post at ldstalk because I have an interest in the Mormon religion and history. I have an LDS friend and LDS in-laws. I almost joined the LDS church so I still have a connection with it because of how it has effected my life. I don't share in some of the LDS beliefs but I do enjoy the history and a good debate now and then, and sometimes LDS views on certain religious questions. M.

Hey Peace - I don't think we have the power to delete, only the mods can do that. Send them a request through the "Report this post" link.M.