crazypotato
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Posts posted by crazypotato
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Yes, it is both of your faults that you are arguing, and there is nothing in your post that I see that is not pretty normal and fixable.
You have faults and he has faults. What he says about you is probably true and what you say about him is probably true. And infertility, I have been through that too. (BTW, I highly, highly recommend acupuncture to treat infertility. I know it sounds crazy but it is actually valid and really helps).
Will you please read a book called "Fascinating Womanhood" by Helen Andelin. You will either hate it or love it. I have had a huge change in my marriage once I read it. It is by an LDS author but not an LDS book. The best parts of the book on how men think and what annoys men the most in a marriage. Then there are chapters on how to be a good wife. It is very 1950s but try and read it with an open mind. It has a LOT of truth in it on male/female differences.
Or if you can't stomach that book, try Dr Laura's "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands". It sounds annoying but it has, I have heard, very good perspective into how men think. In my opinion, she oversimplifies men and their needs, but I think it still has a realistic message.
You can email me privately anytime about infertility or the books. I would be happy to help you. You sound like a very humble person because you are willing to admit your faults, and you need to start working on your faults and walking away from arguments, rather than engaging in them. Then start reading up in those books. In my opinion, they worked 100 times better than several marriage counselors that I am embarrassed to say I tried.
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Okay I've gone through this thread. The way I see it, a mind has been made up. Whether or not anyone posts their opinions on the subject or provides links to talks by GA's, the mind is made up.
It's already been posted that an "exception" has been made by God. Okay fine. If that is how the OP feels that's awesome and it's your life.
It's not just this post but I see this time and time again. People ask for thoughts and advice. When said thoughts and advice are given there is always a reason why it doesn't apply to them.
Just my 2 cents.
Great point, Pam. This is something that has been bugging me about the forums on LDS.net. Since most of us assumedly are LDS, I don't understand why people post that they are exceptions to the council of the prophet and then get so irritated when I or other people disagree.
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Prince,
I wish you the best in your life. If everyone opened their dating life up to the public I am sure we would all find things to criticize about each other.
Maybe your question is whether the serious dating thing is doctrine or counsel, and if so, what is the difference?
Do you have to follow the counsel in the pamphlet, "For the Strength of Youth" that advices against serious dating? Maybe that is your core question that was lost because your OP is kind of long and has a lot of information in it.
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PrinceofLight2000,
Did you really want advice, or did you just want us all to agree that you know exactly what you are doing and the rest of us are judgmental or wrong in some way, shape, or form?
It's your life, but you opened it up for examination. I am wondering why? It's true that we don't know you. But most of us have life experience and wisdom and are trying to HELP you, not put you down, just give you things to think about.
We are not your parents but your tone sounds like you are arguing with the dumber, older generation (i.e. 25 and up), hence, you sound like the teenager that you are.
Chill! I for one don't really enjoy making people feel bad about themselves.
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PC,
What form of Protestant religion are you? Just curious.
BTW, I'm 100% LDS, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (100%) Books, etc. Information link
2. Jehovahs Witness (95%) Books, etc. Information link
3. Orthodox Judaism (86%) Books, etc. Information link
4. Islam (74%) Books, etc. Information link
5. Eastern Orthodox (69%) Books, etc. Information link
6. Roman Catholic (69%) Books, etc. Information link
7. Bahai (68%) Books, etc. Information link
8. Mainline - Conservative Christian Protestant (66%) Books, etc. Information link
9. Seventh Day Adventist (64%) Books, etc. Information link
10. Sikhism (61%) Books, etc. Information link
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I'm really curious if you have actually met, face-to-face, and dated any of these girls, including Kelly. From your post, it seems that the entire relationship has been online.
Me too. You can't really get to know a person online or over the phone, even if you spend hours and hours.
It doesn't replace face to face meetings with them and their family.
Also, lots of teenagers now seem very clingy to each other. I think you feel safe having a girlfriend. Are you the type that fears being lonely? I caught the word lonely a lot in your post. Did you know that children of divorce tend to get more serious with the opposite sex in order to replace the feelings of loss and grief from a broken family/absent parent?
Anyone who feels lonely and goes looks to a boyfriend/girlfriend to fix that feeling is making themselves very vulnerable to the adversary.
If you are really lonely and have to have a girlfriend to escape the pain for loneliness, may I gently suggest that you turn to the Lord and try and have him be your best friend, ask him to fill your heart and help you with your loneliness, rather than an online person named Kelly. I am sure that she is a nice person, but she has faults, her family has crazy and annoying things about them, she is not perfect and you don't know everything about her imperfections. She will ultimately disappoint you (everyone does). No one can fix your loneliness but Christ.
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Hello there,
You sound young. I think a lot of young people are a bit self-centered. This is not good but normal.
Praying - just pray and don't worry so much about what you are saying, like if it is too informal. I believe God cares about everything that is going on in your life and would rather hear from you than you give a stiff, formal prayer that you don't really mean.
My perspective on you is that your natural man side wants to keep sinning because it is pleasurable and enjoyable. But your spirit wants you to stop. All of us have this same problem to one degree or another. We wish that we didn't even desire to sin, but our bodies desire it.
So one great thing to try, along with prayer and scripture study, is fasting. Each fast Sunday or any random day you want, Fast for as long as you can, up to 24 hours without food or drink. And dedicate your fast to overcoming your desire to sin. Your body is being denied food and drink, which makes your body weaker, but your Spirit actually gets stronger when you fast.
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As for religious stuff,
Imagine someone kept telling you, "we need to read the scripture together. We have to pray together right now. You need to get ready for church now. Did you do your home teaching yet this month?"
This is very annoying to hear. I am not saying that you do that. I am not saying that it is wrong to wish your husband was more into the churchy, spiritual stuff.
But as a spouse, we have to be extra careful to not be the church or spiritual police. We hear in church all the time that the way to have the most happiness in a marriage and family is to pray together, go to the temple together, have family home evening and scripture study, and then it is so hard when our spouses aren't really into it much or at all. We feel like because of their lack of desire to do those things, they are hurting our marriage. While this is true in a way, it is also harmful to a marriage to judge ourselves as better than our spouses if we are more churchy, or be angry and nag or cry or anything to them about doing those things.
Try and remember that spouses are adults and can make their own religious decisions, and that setting an example and then genuinely not judging them for not doing the church stuff is the Lord's way. You can still ask or invite them to do things with you like pray, but not constantly, maybe every once in awhile. Trying to push them into doing stuff is not the Lord's way. Spouses don't like to have their negative traits focused on. None of us do. We need to try and focus on the positive and good in our spouses, because the Lord doesn't look at us and see only our faults, but he sees our divine potential and always is filled with hope in us.
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I didn't catch this the first time. I'm unmarried so I have to speak in the hypothetical but:
Probably won't, but then I don't spend all my free time doing any one thing. Certainly not for a years worth. I'm diverse enough that I could probably find something mutually enjoyable. I'm curious, why is it important that my wife does or doesn't like it? Do you mean she can enjoy that particular hobby (that she can enjoy it doesn't mean we necessarily do it together)? Or do you mean she doesn't like that I'm doing that hobby in preference to spending needed time with her?
I would rather spend time doing both, spending free time with just myself doing my thing and some with her, even if we happen to have simular enough interests that I could spend all of it with her. Alone time is a good thing. That said it shouldn't be the only thing.
Assuming it has merit yes, at any rate merit or not it would have to be worked through. Whether she simply perceives it or it actually has merit there will be a strain on the relationship.
Nope. Also, talk of deserving it does not bolster your case that it isn't about punishment, control and/or revenge. Additionally keep in mind if I'm temporarily insane I'm not seeing the problem. If I could come home and see the console missing and think: "You know what, I've been neglecting her. This is not a power-play but an honest attempt to remove something detrimental to our relationship from the environment and engender honest and meaningful communication about the issue" I'm fairly sure it wouldn't have gotten to that point to begin with.
In fact this is a hypothetical without me being mired in the situation and I'm not thinking that.
Throwing away 'my' posessions while I'm away from the house is a power play. It is an attempt to exercise control over me, and even worse it is an atempt to do so when I can't respond or defend against it. It is an attempt to hold my posessions and things I consider important hostage to the threat that "I can throw them out when your back is turned" in order to bring me to heel.
Let's just say I am not your husband and throwing out my possessions (strangely I'm okay with your alcohol example, or if say I had a stack of Playboys that you'd told me I need to get rid of because you don't want filth in our home*) would not be a way to express your frustrations in a way I could appreciate, quite the opposite.
*From the inside I'd probably have issues, but outside looking at a hypothetical I'm more understanding.
Dravin,
My husband is the same way. He doesn't like to feel like I am in a power struggle with him. He hates being threatened or pushed (doesn't everyone?) I have never thrown his stuff out, but I have gotten into power struggles with him before and I am sorry that I did, because even if someone is doing something harmful to a marriage, a power play, in my experience, may help in the short term but causes long term, maybe unspoken resentment towards the spouse.
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Kimiko,
As a woman married to a guy who loves, loves, loves computer gaming, I feel your pain.
Reading through all the posts here, I really appreciate the male comments on here. I think they are giving you really good advice. Nothing against the females advice, either, but women think differently than men, so often a woman's feelings are hurt by her man gaming all the time, and the man is not trying to hurt her feelings, he is just thinking about his gaming.
Men, correct me if I am wrong, but I have learned that men don't really like to have little talks with their wives about something the wife is annoyed with. Instead, suggesting an alternative activity like going to a shooting range and shooting together is an awesome idea! My husband LOVES doing this. It's great because you drive there together, when you are out of ammo you have to stop, and then you have to leave and come home, where with gaming, you can go for hours and hours and hours. Plus the shooting range is also a good way to relieve stress, but something you are doing together, and you both get earplugs.
Also, men on here have said that they see little talks as nagging, and sad faces as disappointed in them. I fully agree. My husband is very sensitive to my facial expression and tone of voice. If he looks at my face and it looks angry and my tone is irritated, his brain says to him, "oh-oh! your wife is mad and she is getting ready to tell you something that she doesn't like about you again."
And men need admiration for what they are doing right in the marriage. The kinder I am to my husband and the less I point out what annoys me, the less he seems to need to be on the computer doing gaming. He naturally starts coming over to hang out with me because I don't look annoyed or irritated, so it is safe to come out.
The women who are gaming widows also need to remember that if our husbands are neglecting any of their duties, to never cover their butts for them, because then they are not as motivated to get off their butts.
Also, one more thing. My husband doesn't like clingy. I don't think normal family times are clingy, but anyway. . . If I stop pushing him to spend time with me, and go on with my business, often he wanders away from the computer and wants to spend time with me.
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Just a reminder to us all here of the forum rules:
4. No bickering and nit-picking toward others. Realize that sometimes it is very difficult to be able to express how one feels through written words. Please be courteous and ask for a further explanation, rather then trying to attack and find holes in someone else's post.
I am not saying that all of you are doing this, but I do feel rather attacked and under a microscope.
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Friendly reminder of Site Rules:
3. Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, and judgments against other members will not be tolerated.
4. No bickering and nit-picking toward others. Realize that sometimes it is very difficult to be able to express how one feels through written words. Please be courteous and ask for a further explanation, rather then trying to attack and find holes in someone else's post.
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That's crazy, if you did receive a paycheque your husband would have no control regarding your pay. That is more under your and your boss' control. So in other words, it would actually be your own fault for seeing your husband in a disrespectful way, since you put him in that position - hypothetically of course, since I'm assuming you don't receive a paycheque.
M.
You are not making sense to me, but that's okay. I'm the bad guy here (apparently) because I want my husband to work and I want to be a SAHM. No, I don't receive a paycheck because I am a full time mom. Although no one seems to have my point of view on this forum, that doesn't make my philosophy "crazy."
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(1) You admitted that you are extreme. Confession = truth?
(2) Nothing in the most recent conference talks indicate that we shouldn't have friends of the opposite sex.
You have got to be kidding me, girl. Seriously. .
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Oh brother....
I agree!
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For reasons I do not understand you equate disagreement of opinions as personal attacks. You think, incorrectly, that I view your opinions as a personal attack on me and choose to interpret my disagreement with your opinion as a personal attack on you.
I am not attacking you personally. I have no idea if you are funny looking, unhygienic, malodorous, amoral, or Canadian. I oppose your opinions because they are:
1. Factually untrue.
2. Uninformed.
3. Offensive.
It is not a matter of definition, a point you will shortly demonstrate by being unable to post any credible published definition that feminism = man bashing, promotion of self over family, pushing for women to put children in day care, promotes women as having superior intelligence over men. That's not a definition, that merely uniformed bigotry.
If anyone hurled analogous pejoratives at Mormons or Hispanics, or veterans, or Mia Maids, those opinions would be condemned and yours should be also.
Were it not for a long history of feminism, women would not be able to vote, own property, get equal educations, holds same jobs with same pay as men, serve their country in politics. Fortunately for each one of us, male and female feminist have enriched all of mankind with their tireless efforts.
I fear that percentage of feminists in the Church does not equal or surpass the percentage of feminists in the general population. I hope I am wrong.
Feminism = a doctrine that advocates equal rights for women.
Actually, I find your reply very offensive. you are not disagreeing with me, you are calling me a bigot. Excuse me, but moderator, isn't this not very KOSHER? To call me a bigot?
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The is NOWs agenda, from their own website.
Before Obama even took office, NOW released its Feminist Action Agenda for 2009 and Beyond to illuminate specific pathways to achieve women's equality. NOW's action agenda covers nine issue areas: economic justice; reproductive rights and sexual health; equal rights and ending sex discrimination; healthcare for all; stopping violence against women; lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender rights; educational equity; promoting diversity and ending racism; and media fairness and accessibility. The agenda details NOW's specific policy goals for each category.
Intern
The Promise Keepers, a right-wing fundamentalist men's group known for holding men-only rallies in football stadiums, continues its surreptitious campaign for male supremacy with a new nationwide tour.
"Don't be fooled by the media coverage of the group's religious faith," said NOW Action Vice President Olga Vives, who spoke at a rally outside the Promise Keepers' first tour event in Albany, N.Y. on June 5.
"This organization breeds bigots. Underneath the façade of Christian religion are the workings of the radical religious right, mobilizing men against the rights of women, lesbians, and gays. Let's remember they blame women's equality for society's ills."
No, I do not identify myself as a modern day femiinist and I don't stand by their agenda. I am not uniformed and wrong. Can you really be LDS and affiliate with NOW? NOW is the modern feminist movement. They are for gay marriage, abortion, anti-right-wing, etc.
Including:
•Constitutional protections alone cannot ensure accessible and affordable reproductive health services for all women. In a political environment hostile to reproductive rights, a number of women—especially young women, women of color, poor women, immigrant women and women with disabilities—are unable to access abortion, birth control, pre-natal care, maternity leave, child care and other crucial health and family services
•NOW believes that our schools should provide only the most up-to-date, medically-accurate and comprehensive sex education to their students. Abstinence-only education, a favorite of the right-wing, leaves young women and men uninformed and unprepared to safeguard their own health and well-being.
Throughout the next three decades, NOW's work on lesbian rights remained strong and decisive, covering such issues as discrimination in the military, anti-sodomy laws, electing lesbian and gay candidates to political office, hate crimes legislation, and expanding same-sex partners' rights. In 1995, NOW made official its support for same-sex marriage, stating that the choice of marriage is a fundamental constitutional right, protected under the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, and should not be denied because of a person's sexual orientation
NOW and Fighting the Right Wing Example of how they are fighting the right wing.
Intern
The Promise Keepers, a right-wing fundamentalist men's group known for holding men-only rallies in football stadiums, continues its surreptitious campaign for male supremacy with a new nationwide tour.
"Don't be fooled by the media coverage of the group's religious faith," said NOW Action Vice President Olga Vives, who spoke at a rally outside the Promise Keepers' first tour event in Albany, N.Y. on June 5.
"This organization breeds bigots. Underneath the façade of Christian religion are the workings of the radical religious right, mobilizing men against the rights of women, lesbians, and gays. Let's remember they blame women's equality for society's ills."
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Another item on the agenda:
"Sappho's Rights" Basically, fighting for lesbian rights.
Another one:Hard Core Activism fights Soft Core Tokenism
Judy Rose & Pym Schaare
The ethic of male as provider and masculine identity defined by status at work
reinforces the privileging of the male in the workplace. On the flip side, women’s
issues are silenced and minimalised as pressure is applied for her to acquiesce or face
the chop. Through the threat of losing their job, being demoted or made redundant
workers are forced to comply with the new workplace laws. Isolation, rejection, being
alienated with bullying tactics also works to keep the patriarchal workplace ethic in
order.
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FEMINISM:
A SPENT FORCE OR STILL A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH?
Betty McLellan
"We wanted to transform the world, to make it a fairer place for women, and what we see is that the world has been transformed all right but, under George W. Bush, John Howard and their ilk,
transformed in an extremely negative and destructive way - certainly not in a way that will bring justice for women and other minorities. The transformation is one which, more than ever before, privileges the already privileged. Economic rationalism, the formation and dominance of global trade
and financial institutions has meant increased hardship. . ."
She adds:
an Ethic of Absolutism is an ethic of obedience to the law - any
law, a law which is held up as containing guiding principles for life. You see,
there’s no need to reflect if you’re a conservative, no need to try to understand
what’s going on in the world, to understand, for example, why women are still
treated so badly. Because some higher authority has said that this is how it
should be, and that’s enough. The Bible, the Koran, a political leader, religious
leader, tribal leader, Indigenous customary law, Sharia law - some higher
authority.
The thing is that an Ethic of Absolutism or an Ethic of Fundamentalism never
works for women. In fact, women are targetted by fundamentalists who
unashamedly proclaim that if women are included in the category “human” at all,
it is only as second-class citizens. It’s all about men - and why? Because God
ordained that it should be so!
What’s happening for women? Well, first of all there’s the
curse of fundamentalism. Women are diminished and silenced by religious,
political and market fundamentalism. Religious fundamentalism denying personal
and social freedoms to women; political fundamentalism deliberately excluding
women and silencing all dissenting voices; and market fundamentalism putting
enormous stress on women as they struggle with poverty or, in wealthier
countries, as they struggle to keep up with the demands of consumerism.
Fundamentalism.
How is it possible to stand against the oppression of women without alienating men when it’s almost always men and male institutions who do the oppressing?
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Here's an article from the same International Conference on feminism. It is titled: "Male Domination’s Double Act: how warrior training in domestic terrorism reinforces female oppression
57…..Radical Feminism foretells ourselves as ‘endangered
species’,58connects man-made ‘witchunting’59 extermination and today’s Phallic
Fundamentalism.60..…..One scribe views ’the terrorist as the logical product of a
people who have beeen crushed, dispossessed, tortured and killed in terrible
numbers’.61 Ordinary Family females have logical reason to retaliate,to kill neonatal
males,castrate rapists, as sex-slaves maim their owners.In truthtelling, this
’evil-female-enemy’ serves as camouflage for ruling class dependency
masqueraded as superiority.Radical Feminism sabotages manhood mythomania.
Lyn Ariel. Sydney ‘07
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http://www.feministagenda.org.au/IFS%20Papers/Nonie2.pdf
This paper is from a 2007 Feminst conference. Here is a quote if you are not going to read it:
Radical feminists linked women’s oppression to their child caring responsibilities and,
also, to the ideology of motherhood that defined and contained mothering in the
interests of men.
Feminists argued, “Only if the pattern of child care is completely changed can the
mass of women be free” (Curthoys, 1976, p. 3).
The outcome of this radical feminist vision was support for “… a strong child care
movement, as a subsidiary or offshoot of the women’s movement, with revolutionary
aims, devoted to the breakdown of existing work patterns and the establishment of
communal child care” (Curthoys, 1976, p. 5)
So in the 1960s and 1970s community centred child care was one of the fundamentals
of the feminist revolution.
But where are we now?
So is it too late? I argue not!
Child care is not simply a liberal feminist issue that helps women balance work and
family! Child care is still fundamental to the liberation of women and radical
feminists need to reclaim child care before “all the men in power put their spin on it”!
If we do not reclaim child care, a child care movement with revolutionary aims, it will
remain in the hands of men whose sole goal is not the liberation of women or quality
care for our children but the unfettered pursuit of escalating profit at the expense of
women."
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Um,
Can we stop the attacks on crazypotato? Where have I attacked any of you other than asking you to stop your hostile tones? Where is my hostile tone? Do you view me as hostile because I don't see eye to eye with you?
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Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
I called you extreme once. I do not "keep" calling you extreme.
Okay, so you called me extreme and told me that I only see things as black and white.
Also, not being me, you wouldn't know what my aim was, would you?
What is your aim? I don't see you overanalyzing people that you agree with. If you agree with someone, it is okay for them to say things like, "I have a close boyfriend and I have never had an affair" and that's okay. Where are they using, according to your little rules that you made up by yourself, at least one scripture quote to back them up or a current general conference talk?
Can you back up that I am extreme or see things only as black and white with at least one scriptural reference and one conference talk? Oh, and by the way, it has to be a conference talk from the most recent general conference (I'll throw in that little rule).
Play fair, Wingnut. All you used was a dictionary.
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That is not what you said though. You make a blanket statement earlier in the thread.
Seems when people disagree you change your story.
No, I actually agree wtih both of my quotes. I would lose respect for my husband if I made more money than him. I still have that opinion. And do you reallly think that I am trying to get people to agree with me? If that is the case, then I could lie and be PC and say that it doesn't matter to me if my husband makes less.
Am I at Fault?
in Family
Posted
I agree that you need to be a lot more considerate of the fact that he lost his dad. And I also agree that he is not going to fill your needs and make you happy. Women notoriously go to their husbands to fill their needs first. This is a common mistake. No matter who your husband is, you should always go to Christ first to fill your needs, and you will find yourself much less irritated and disappointed in other people when you learn to do this. Your husband and anybody will always be imperfect but Christ is perfect.