crazypotato
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Posts posted by crazypotato
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I tend to think that people are born gay, while the rest of us were born heterosexual. I say that because I don't know anyone who would chose to be something that is seen as a major sin, and many homosexuals have ended up committing suicide because of the stigma.
Which as stated by President Faust, I believe, would not allow someone any agency or hope in Christ's atoning sacrifice to have any power to help them. Hence, that lack of hope and faith in Christ could make anyone feel very depressed and suicidal. Isn't Satan tricky?
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Snow is male.
That's funny because the eye blinky thing looks female so I had assumed Snow was a female.
Personally, I don't find men who where mascara and eyeliner attractive.
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With all the different preferences out there, there are surely plenty of men that find the OP attractive.
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Snow,
Are you female or male?
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Here is where the contention comes and it doesn't need be.
God has commandments. The greatest is to love him above all else. The second is to love your neighbor as yourself.
If we first love God before ourselves, we will deny ourselves of everything unholy (who has got this commandment down? not me!) Second, we will love our neighbors as ourselves.
There are gay people that seem to think that if we don't agree with their lifestyle, we are hateful and homophobic. There are gay people who just want others to be sympathetic of them. I think sometimes those two groups (and more) can become confused. I think it is fine to ask for love and respect, but that should not be confused with condoning or accepting or agreeing with something we believe is against God's commandments, as long as we have humility to remember that we are all sinners and all of us fall short.
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Maybe she blocked the other ones from her memory? :)
I haven't been on this site very long, just off and on. I am betting the plenty of others you are referring to are all similar, ad nauseum if you want to call it that, of the same ol same ol.
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I think this thread has been highjacked into a debate with Mr. T.
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Well, I remember a few months ago the the whole homosexuality and gay marriage thread on here that went on forever and I started getting mad and other people started getting mad. . .
A lot of the same opinions and comments again on this thread. Although last time, mostly the reason I was so irritated and going back and forth with a few people was because I was about to get my period (TMI) and was in my angry, argumentative mode. Then day one started and I didn't care anymore and was fine.
Anyhoo, now that I have grossed all the men out on here, I just want to say that it does bother me that there are people wavering or unsure on this issue, that are not going to the scriptures and to the Lord about what the answer is. Whoever is the most convincing or who is the best at swaying people or confuses people with their perspective may win the undecided people over to their side. If you have a testimony and are doubting Pres Monson, that is fine, but go to the Lord over it, not lds.net if you know what I mean. The Lord will tell you the truth, unpopular as it is with some people. The truth is not relative to people's own situations and feelings.
There is the scripture where if your right hand offends God, cut it off. That is how I view homosexuality. If you have those strong feelings, cut off your right hand so you can be with God.
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Melissa,
I think this is a topic where everyone already has their mind made up and there is pretty much no point in discussing. Same as abortion or politics.
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Once again, a thread with a hot button topic has gone off the deep end.
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I'm always concerned when poeple say that if we sin we can't have the Holy Ghost with us.
I don't think it's that simple. I think when we are participating in something we shouldn't he can't be our constant companion but he still does visit and prompt us to repent and comfort and encourage us.
Which is what I meant. You can't call upon the Holy Ghost and have his spirit always with you. The Holy Ghost can come to you and prompt you, but you don't have the power to have the Spirit with you when you are looking at pornography or thinking about it.
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You are not alone. There are tons of people in and out of the church that have a problem with porn. It is normal for a young man to want to look at it.
You can't have the Holy Ghost when you break this commandment. I don't know if I would call this a punishment more than a law. The Holy Ghost is offended by porn and by those kinds of thoughts that you are having. Don't ever think that God is mean and trying to punish you because he doesn't like you or something. It is just a natural consequence that you are experiencing.
Have you talked to your bishop and asked for his help? His job isn't so much as to hurry and condemn you and kick you to the curb as it is to try and help you repent and bring you to Christ. I am sure his office is full of visits from other people struggling with the same problem. If you keep it a secret, I think it will be harder to repent.
Have you tried fasting often for the strength and the desire to overcome this temptation? Everyone, whether they are strugglng with porn or any sin needs to fast to have spiritual strength. Prayer and scripture study are good, but fasting gives added strength.
Do you have thoughts and activities to do to replace this? When you are having these thoughts, you need to actively fight them by thinking more righteous thoughts, like imagining a positive image. Also, when you are fantasizing, you can repeatedly tell yourself that those women are probably high on drugs, have families that are horrified by their behavior or are from horrific homes, or are airbrushed or whatever. The truth can start killing your fantasies. Those women are someone's daughter or sister that is demeaning herself and destroying her life. She is not actually turned on by you and if you were struck by lightning or hit by a car, she couldn't care less.
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Crazy: No offense, but it isn't up to you to make that call. You do what is right for you. President Monson has to do what is best for the church. I will trust the Lord in what He tells me is best for me.
GaySaint,
You are right, I am not going to judge your own personal prayer experiences. And was not singling you out. I am following President Monson to the best of my ability, you are following your conscience to the best of your ability.
It is my belief (maybe naive) that most people are good and when we sin, it is out of a lack of a full understanding of Jesus Christ. Just because I am not gay doesn't mean that I am better than anyone else.
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I am brand new to the site and forum and I have read with interest all of the posts contained here in this particular thread. Out of all of what has been spoken (and certainly not to minimize the accuracy and appropriateness of any one comment in particular), I find this posting by Ben Raines to be the most spot on point.
I am keenly aware that no one here knows me from Adam and what I share here is certainly up for anyone's interpretation, judgment, criticism, praise... what have you. I will say that I have many of my own personal experiences within the subject directly dealt with here in this thread, and because of those experiences have formed a very, very strong opinion and personal belief that works for me.
Having said all of that, Ben's post hits on counsel that has been given quite strongly by modern prophets. Being alone, with a member of the opposite sex who is not our spouse is a very, very, very risky activity. Turning to an "old friend", "good friend" of the opposite sex for seemingly innocent "help with a difficult time" or "perspective on a current relationship" (not exact words I have read in this thread, I know... but I hope you get my point) with a member of the opposite sex who is not our spouse is, in my opinion, absolutely inappropriate and nearly a direct invitation for the Adversary to enter into the equation to work his purposes. If one is having marital struggles and really needs someone other than their spouse to talk to, then their Bishop should be the first person to come to mind... not the ex-spouse, old flame, best friend from way back, or even current good friend and next door neighbor (of opposite sexes, of course). Next in line after the Bishop would be a qualified therapist within a professional setting and environment.
The issue is not about having friends of the opposite sex. And in my opinion, I do not believe that crazypotato intended to ever make this point (that's of course an opinion of mine based on what I read of the entire thread). If we didn't have "friends"; opposite sex or otherwise, how would we ever do any missionary work? How would we function in society? How would we help to make the world a better place? How could we "mourn with those that mourn", "comfort those that stand in need of comfort", etc? Is it OK to have a friend of the opposite sex? I certainly believe so. Is it appropriate to spend one on one time with them, no matter what the situation or circumstance? My personal opinion... nope... it's not.
Folks... I don't care who you are. Satan knows each of you better than you know yourselves in many ways. He does not have the veil to cover his knowledge of you and the life that we all shared before this one. He knows your weaknesses... even ones that you may not have yet discovered about yourself. He has been about the business of deceiving souls for what... the last 6000 years at least, and certainly many, many before that? You don't lead away one-third of the host of heaven without having exceptional skills of persuasion, manipulation and deception or without knowing how to capitalize on the weaknesses of others.
Please, take it from someone who has been down this path before, both personally and "by proxy" and has seen the consequences and the pain and the anguish and the regret firsthand... you are never as strong as you think you are and if you let go of the rod of iron for even a split second... for seemingly the most innocent of reasons or situations... you are taking your salvation into your own hands and trust me, your own hands will let you down every single time.
Thank you. Exactly what I was trying to say. Even innocent intentions of good people can lead them down the wrong path. I am sorry for the pain you have gone through and remember, God forgives.
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There is also false personal revelation. If someone tells me that they had a revelation from God that gay marriage is okay for them, and at the same time President Monson is saying that the church is against it and we should vote against it, then. . .
Any good person can go in the wrong direction, including me, but I don't believe that President Monson will or can.
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Personally, I am conservative/libertarian leaning from looking at the church welfare system and the heavy council by church leaders for us to be self-sufficient. We are supposed to have a supply of food, have a 72 hour kit, get out of debt and stay out of debt, etc. And the welfare system of the church is designed to try to encourage members to work if they can and use the system only temporarily.
Also, having worked for Medicaid for a number a years, I see how many well meaning people in a bureaucracy can waste millions of dollars and clog up a system into such inefficiency that lots of people don't get the help that they need.
Joseph Smith stated that the Constitution of the US was inspired by God, and that people in this land were meant to be free, as long as they were righteous. He advised all members to study and understand the Constitution. I have studied it and believe that it leans most towards a conservative/libertarian system of government.
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I stand with the Founding Fathers when I say that I want no laws put on my person, or that restrict my freedom, based upon someone else's interpretation of scripture.
Period.
I make no excuses for my desires; they are in line with the foundation of this nation.
I would not restrict the contracts that may be entered into by consenting adults of informed consent and sound mind. I have always expressely stated that only adults or those in their majority may enter into contracts of any variety; I don't know where you see that I have been ambiguous on that point. I would never be OK with those in their minority, not of sound mind, or of informed consent to willingly (without duress) enter into contracts of performance; even though I did by enlisting into military service at 17. I was not mature enough, mentally or of suffecient experience to know what it was that I was doing or why. I took an oath I was incapable of truly understanding or performing. I toughed it out, as I keep my word, but I learned from that experience what it is to submit to a contract without understanding what it truly entails.
I don't care what you do for a living; trash-man, astronaut, president of the United States, skilled tradesman, or a practicer of priestcraft; that's your business. I simply give no creedence to or recognize any authority from your occupation. Your knowledge of scripture may be greater than myself, although that's irrelevant. I do not need to read and understand the 99 theories to follow the Laws of God as set forth in his commandments and in the oaths I took or the covenants I made.
I also don't need, nor particularily want, anyone shoving their particular view of morality down my throat.
Abortion? In most cases its an abomination; but its none of my business what others do with their bodies. Do not, however, demand that I participate in any way though financial support; monies taken from me without my permission, by force of law and threat of punishment or death for disobedience, just to take that money and give it to another who is in performance of an action I am in disagreement with, and which is not specifically called for in the Consittution or Bill of RIghts.
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Why do I disagree? Because even the Prophet can be wrong; Joseph Smith was severely punished a number of times for preaching false doctrines and even leading an Army against detractors in another state.
Any President of the Church who uses their position of authority to espouse the creation or removal of a political law in a government that is free from religious interfierance is preaching a false doctrine. We are to be in this world, not of it. And using law to prohibit others from excercising their God-given rights to drink beer or enter into a contract with their neighbors cat, in my opinion, is a gross abuse of authority and station.
The Church just had to pay a sizeable fine to the government for illegal interfierance with a recent election; harldly a righteous activity in my opinion. Ya know, that whole "being subject to Kings, Potentates, laws, etc" part of the Articles of Faith.
Mr T,
Although I very much, very much disagree with you about the prophet, I respect your opinion and your right to it. And weren't you in the military? I seem to remember you stating that in different posts. It has been my experience that the military attracts people that value and uphold freedom as higher than most people, so thank you for your service.
I think you are coming across as very offensive to some here but I think I understand where you are coming from and are just so strong in your convictions about upholding people's freedoms that you are disagreeing with the prophet. Now Joseph Smith was not perfect, and neither is President Monson, but I believe they won't lead us away from God and if they make a stupid mistake, I for one will still follow them and not be held accountable if they are wrong.
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CP: I don't think people are arguing. I think they are trying to discuss the reprocussions of breaking up real families by using a secular government to force religious ideals on people who do or do not share in the LDS beliefs.
There are a lot of people who, for whatever reason, find themselves having to unit secular belief with church teaching in this regard to better understand the spiritual reprocussions of a church getting involved with a secular government to enforce one particular moral code, especially when doing so damages another group of people.
I understand that you disagree with the prophet and that is your right. However, hearing different points of view as to why the prophet is wrong is HOPEFULLY not going to sway any believing members' testimony of the prophet as our infallible leader.
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CP: Can you point me to a reference where a church leader has said this? I'm curious as to the context, and official doctrine surrounding the statement :).
I have heard of "declining morality" mentioned as one of many causes that will lead to a society wicked enough to usher in the second coming, and have heard homosexuality mentioned as one of many factors in a declining morality, but haven't heard that legalizing gay marriage would directly lead to the downfall of society.
And that seems rather strange to me considering that at high estimate, only 10% of the population is gay. The other 90% must be doing some rather wicked things as well for society to fail. If the fact that that 10% of the population can't get married is the only thing holding up society, then that other 90% has "some 'splanin' to do."
We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.
We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.
We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.
And here the prophets are saying the disintegration of the family brings calamities foretold by prophets. This includes gay marriage as well as abuse, adultery, etc, any sins by people breaking the laws of chastity or harming the institution of marriage. There is no singling out of gays, it is anybody harming marriage.
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This is my question:
Why are we arguing? President Monson, that some of us sustain as a prophet of God, specifically has stated that he wants us to VOTE against gay marriage being legalized. So if you are a member and going to the temple, I find it confusing that anyone would argue against what our prophet has asked us to do.
Most always the church takes no stand in political issues. But once in a blue moon, they do. Back during prohibition, the church asked everyone to not vote it out of law. But it was voted out, including the state of Utah.
And PrisonChaplain and people of other faiths have taken the same view as our prophet. They are trying to follow God. Why argue?
If people disagree, that is fine, but I am confused as to why a member in good standing of the LDS church would debate this. I know I was getting pretty emotional when a few months ago gay marriage was debated. My beef was, it is okay to disagree with the prophet and have your opinion, but if you are a member who would like to be going to the temple, I think this is something that needs to be prayed about to God to see if President Monson and other religious leaders are right.
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I'm not saying that the church is the bad guy, merely trying to understand whether this is a policy and exploring, if so, why it exists.
As for the rest, well, until you walk a mile in someone's shoes... that's all I have to say about that.
I understand what you are saying about not judging her, but it is one thing to be married to a reasonably decent person who is adamantly opposed to the church, and another thing to be married to a mess. Sometimes, when people have one problem (spouse), they blame it on other stuff (church). And I wasn't trying to be totally unsympathetic, but she does still have her agency. She does live in a free country. It may sound harsh and judgmental, but I didn't intend to sound that way. However, look at all our country and churches have to offer verses some of the middle eastern nations where women have absolutely no rights to religion or divorce.
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Mr T,
You sound like a libertarian.
I understand what you are saying, but when the church specifically states that legalizing gay marriages and condoning homosexual unions leads to the downfall of a society, I believe that although logically it may not make sense, we should have faith in the prophet and support marriage as a sacred institution.
I agree in all you are saying about small government and the government getting their noses out of people's private business, but when the proclamation on the family comes out, and then a bunch of messages from the First Presidency warning against gay marriage, I think this is more than a political issue, but a prophetic warning.
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I think the church asks the spouses permission before a busy calling so that the spouse will be supportive of whoever for spending more time away from the family. The bishop asks females for permission for their husbands to have busy callings sometimes, and vice versa. It is totally fair. If I get a calling as Young Women's president, for example, it is absolutely necessary for my husband to be on board and willing to support me taking large amounts of time away from my family.
Also, why is she playing the victim to a violent drunk? Are you sure the church is the bad guy here? Or is she dysfunctional, too? She doesn't HAVE to stay married to him. She can go to a women's shelter if needed and get free food and lodging until she finds a job, if he is really that bad. Just because her husband may be too controlling or whatever doesn't mean it is the church's fault for having it's policy, if it is a policy.
I think she should ask the bishop what his handbook says about baptizing someone whose spouse opposes, because like Dravin said, PMG is a handbook for the missionaries, not for the general church.
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A friend of mine in another state is seriously considering being baptized. This is wonderful news, of course, but even more so because she is married to an abusive drunk. The blessings of the gospel will be extra helpful in her case.
She told me today that she'd found a statement in "Preach My Gospel" (p. 207) that says "Do not baptize a married person without the consent of his or her spouse." I'd never heard of that restriction before-- is it new?
I'd love to understand the rationale behind it; it seems that most spouses would grant permission, but it seems unfair to deny someone the benefits of membership in the church if their spouse withholds permission unrighteously.
I have heard this before. Since the church is very family oriented and doesn't want to destroy families over a religious dispute, if a spouse wants to be baptized and the other one is extremely against it and says no, then no baptism.
However, if she is married to an abusive drunk, he is already not holding up his part of the marriage so it doesn't matter and she should be able to get baptized.
The church is trying to help families and keep them together. Sounds like her husband is already trying to destroy the family so it doesn't matter what he wants.
Do I Have To Be Skinny? LDS Dating
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Or any of those creepy makeup-wearing heavy metal/hard rock musicians that have women throwing their bras at them.