Serg

Tao, what gave you the idea that in the BOM Jesus killed anybody? Letalone millions? Show me the chapter pal, cause i dont remember it so...LOL

I agree with Ray... Its very interesting to see and understand the relation between what we speak and what happens around us. Its said in the Word that it literaly changes the surroundings and all... But more than a motivational advise, its got something more. And its not that with only confessing the Lord you are saved... That same Paul that said so, also said ': "cause in Christ Jesus, there is no circumcision or uncircumcision, but to keep God's commandments.." So we find a very "different"saying... But its not so, John in his epistles shows that confessing the Lord really means to PREACH IT as TRUTH. He says : Dont believe every spirit, but that which confesses that the Lord came in flesh..." And also , that salvation is only within THOSE expressions, those CREEDS, that GOSPEL, the only one. Peter, the leader of such church said in the very first verse of his epistle, "we 've been called to "OBEY", and further more says that its through the grace and the spirits that we are saved but through the OBEDIENCE that we are COMMITTED for so. The very Jesus said that not all who call him : Lord!Lord! will enter salvation but those who do the will of His Father... Now dont tell me Maureen that the WILL OF THE FATHER is to only confess Jesus, for then the other commandments must have been taken away, but if you watch closely youll find that in the Apocalypse, there's the ARC with the LAW and the STICK of Aaron and the MANA, that represent the COMMANMENTS, the PRIESTHOOD OF CHRIST AND THE LIVING BREAD THAT COMES FROM SALVATION. So even at the end of times the Law will be remember, why? Cause you ought to follow it until then...LOL Best regards..

I believe Please, you are a very intelligent and curious member. Yes, if Adam had never fallen , there would be NO natural man. But why does the natural man tends to the "wickedness", well, its so. You see, man(as body), after the fall, lost its perfection(for Adam had it perfect), and since, its COMPONENTS attract other similar ones(earth). I mean...this tabernacle LOVES it to be crawling on the ground, dirty, seeking pleasure, and savage. But reason instead, doesnt fight it but "canalizes" it(it leads it moderately). But spirit, ah!, It governs it. Now, its not that pleasur is wicked or dirty is not divine, is just that God has set rules for you to follow. If you had no tendency to bad, how would you choose wisely? For Lucipher had no tendency at all, but his wickedness could more thn his own divine nature...with us is different...Actions have been stablished as "good"ones and "bad ones", that simple, and its got to do with your inside. Now, with tendency to bad, people can really PROVE who they follow. Because it requires HARD EFFORT to FIGHT your own self and nature, and as Jesus said, to DENY IT. Of course, our real and eternal nature is for good, and thats a fact...For in the beggining it was contemplated that Spirits would DOMAIN their tabernacles, for some things in the eternity were made to govern and others to be governed. So is with us, you see, the bible and the BOM, tell us that WITHOUT humility there is no ARISE or EXALTATION, as to Jesus was. The letter to the Hebrews is so revealing...you see the 2nd and 3rd chapter, please read it, i love it. It explains clearly what this probation is all about, it says that 'god crowned man, and put ALL THINGS under his feet...but we DONT SEE IT right now..." and so on... And then says:"but we see ONE(Jesus), that was made a little less than angels..." and now is ABOVE ALL. So with us. The word says: Prov.15:33; ..."and HUMILITY precedes HONOR...". Thats an eternal law. Now, i cant say more by now, but its sufficient as Ray said, for you to look it up, onyour own , and then bring doubts here (if you need it).... Best regards, *********************************************************** Psalms 130:3) If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.

If you mess with God to the point of intentionally trying to kindle His anger against you, without repenting and seeking His forgiveness, you will end up dead, even though you will live to regret having upset Him. Or in other words, God is our heavenly Father, and any child who intentionally abuses His love and patience is just asking for trouble. ← I agree, gotta love it! THE HEAVENS; a SYSTEM that REALLY WORKS, finally! LOL

Well, i guess water never turns into wine at all with Jason... Hey pal! Guess what? You dont believe almost nothing of what we 'believe exists in our minds only', but do you know what is really real??? YOU still HERE wanting to talk to us and visiting this chat! We appreciate participation from you, just as we would appreciate RESPECT. P.D., Kant was a great thinker... Best regards, **********************************************************

Well , Ray and Please got a point!! Jason we are not doubting of supposed women holding the "priesthood" within early christian churches, but within the original CHURCH of CHRIST. It is well known among those gnostic writtings to find women as leaders or even as "priesthood" holders, but THAT doesnt got anything to do with JESUS's PATRIARCAL order. Read the bible man ! Best regards... *********************************************************** (Psalms 130:3) If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.

I totally agree with all of you...I know is not the will of God that his children suffer without reason...Please, SEARCH for health through prayer, HE wants you free from all the opressions of the devil, and even if you should (by His will) stay with that pain, may God bless your faith and reward it accordingly. Best regards, Christian. *********************************************************** If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared. Psalm 130

I hope God helps us every day to learn and live that which we learn.... We really know nothing....and if as brethren we can help each other , so be it. ********************************************************** If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.(Psalms 130:3)

Well Jason, if i offended you with "watch your step", then i am truly sorry, but thats a precaution you ought to take. Now as to the only covenant God made with man was creating him, where you took that idea from? From reason, religion or your continued hatred towards myths as the Bible at all, well then, i am sorry but be careful with what you say not for your sake only but for others. As to the cuts in the garments, i believe much has been said, and i wont insist on treating sacred things with you that way, BUT, it would be very helpful to know that NOW we can buy it from the very church and not sew it ourselves...LOL. No i dont have anything against you, REALLY, i try my hardest to love everyone, i just told you to behave properly... but now i see you are an adult, so beat it... *********************************************************** If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.(Psalms 130:3)

Well....we dont believe that woman SHOULD or HAVE to have the piesthood. They of course CAN, like in the case of Deborah and others. But the explanation there is that there was no worthy men to hold it. Or she was just a leader with out it. When speaking of the deaconesse in Romans, we may say she didnt have to hold the priesthood to be called like that for the mere word only represents servant, which in fact ALL followers of Christ are. And as to the Junia, well it would be a lot better to watch the sintax in the sentence. You see if i say that YOU are very appreciated AMONG the members of this site, that DOES NOT mean that you are in fact a member but that AMONG they that ARE, you are appreciated. I dont believe women held the priesthood in the primitive church, there was no necessity. LOL.

LOL

Yes it explains it, AS FAR AS TO NEPHI IS CONCERNED. He had not the impulse nor the heart for it, the Spirit persuaded him to do it. Now as to why did God do it, well we can speculate and end with the same explanations everybody has, "it was for a greater good",yada yada... But though that could be the reason the question remains: How could God do so? Well , He is the giver of the LAW, He knows when to make exceptions and only He knows whats better for men. For example: we consider wrong the death penalty, but the Lord sometimes requires it. WHY? Cause Jesus didnt pay for that one. You ought to sacrifice your life. If Jesus would have paid for it, he would have remain away from the exaltation, and that CANT happen. So he paid for all that which can be forgiven within the rules of exaltation. Thats why he didnt pay for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and all that commit it are condemn eternally. Ethical questions for an ethical God...He knows all and thats very sufficient to me.LOL

Just for you to know Jason, my deist friend...garments are not sacred on their own, for they are clothes just as all else are, but their holiness comes within the COVENANT that a HOLY being like GOD makes with us in the Temple...and they are a REMINDER of HOLY COVENANTS...so learn more about it, we don't make clothes holy, GOD does... AND the FIVE pointed star i refer is not the one of DAVID, but another one adopted by Israel after Judah's tragedy...the same that Constantine used in his royal seal... And it was an example of an attack to Jo Sm, not a reference to one of the many you make... The problem here is not about clothes or theological point of views, but of your BEHAVIOR within a "theological" discussion... Dont you have in your little site, a word that says : Every human being should take the time to write something that has some significance to them. Every one, right or wrong, should have the space wherein they may take notice of their own beliefs and feelings. This is extremely important, so that you may take the time to express your innermost thoughts... A little bit difficult for him if you are around...LOL Please WATCH your step.

speaking about the devil and all, whats your opinion on apparitions and all, recently some guys taped some site where there was a ghost with white clothes hanging around and fifty people saw it in the very site and TV...? LOL P.D. Please no Bush this time...lol

To our(human) point of view , a man who kills but gives charity to children, would still be good(only in that he gave to children) but would still be evil(in that in which he killed), but again, those verses are not talking about good or evil from OUR perspective but FOR our perspective. I mean. It is said that an evil man "cannot" do good works, but ...of course he can(in the human sense), i mean he can actually kill somebody(bad thing) and write a check for hungry children(good thing), but the meaning of that verse is not that literal, but that the killer(in this example) CANNOT do good works, BECAUSE he does not feel the intention of it. I order to REALLY(from Gods perspective) do a good deed, you HAVE to feel it, and this "do one"is more like a "be recognize by God as one". If people do it and here enters our killer) without wanting or feeling the love of Christ, it shall be taken as if it was never done at all. And no, we DO NOT do good deeds to make "points"in Heaven, for if it would be so at all, what is the minimum score to be saved? Well thats not our doctrine, yes those deeds ought to be considered as accumulative but not to win...but it shows that your commitment with God is real. It does not mean a score but proof of change, you don't do works to be saved(for only through grace we are) but to show to the Lord how we keep our covenant with a real change of heart. This doesn't mean that good deeds now are not so important, of course they are, for if it no be by works, how would i know the path to follow? For as Jesus did all the works for us, we ought to be in his works as well, for the one who sanctifies and the sactified, from one are all. We ought to make our hardest effort(within our particular capacity) to be worthy of the grace of God, because any ways, who of all the children of men can or could ever gain heaven on their own? No one, for if it would have been so, in vain died Jesus, BUT the only WAY to recognize the change of heart of a person is to watch their fruits as John said. And at the end, when all the children of men stand before the presence of the Lord, according to their works will they be rewarded, not as a game score but as a way to see the validity of their conversion,lets say , its like the hidden security line in a dollar, it lets us know if its for real and so you can buy with it, or if it was for fraud... So its fair to say, that only those deeds that come from heart "count", but those which are to buy heaven do not. For if a person gives away his money with rancor, should be just to count it as a deed within those who really gave it and loved the Lord? No , the gospel does not teach that.

Yes Jason, i feel like you've got a serious hidden and exposed problem with mormonism... Fabrics with masonic symbols? Oh! Jo Sm, was a mason!!! Oh the Prophet has fallen!!!.....Thats not a good statement. Nevertheless, what about comparing it to the clothes of Aaron, Elijah an so on?? Did'nt their garments had symbolism involved? This is just another bad comment on Jo Sm, as to the one of the five pointed star that is flipped on a point, which is in some temples! And it was as many said "a symbol not only of masonic but pagan resources", and yet the FLAG and the seal of Israel had it! And constantine adopted it in his "royal seal".... Oh this turns some times into so much nonesense... Anyways, please Jason, have respect over our garments when making a comment. I'm sure even as a "deist"you must some time approach to self control...LOL

Well it does look like Bush...LOL

To Catholicman...i agree with my brethren, that bishops are "common judges"in Israel, thay are counselors, people to HELP, not to condemn...except the sinner doesnot want to repent...yadayadayada...But yes, Joseph Smith declared and was sostained by the 12 Quorum, that violating the Word of Wisdom would be sufficent to not give a calling to somebody or take it from them...but its not a cut and dried as Please said...eventes as fornication ought to be consider...and if the person has repented and the process fulfilled, it WILL be forgotten, for the one who forgives is GOD and not the bishop, and he as a counselor ought to forget it if the person (through prayer) has REALLY abandoned that conduct.. MAY GOD BLESS US ALL !!! "Oh God, if Thou shall see the sin in us, who shall stand before thee?...but in Thee is mercy ." Psalm

Anyways....welcome...you all... "football and girls he likes..." what a not too often found combination...within the USA. LOL

Again...you say that through the Spirit God sees all, but, what about before that Spirit was begotten???Dis He see all??

I agree with most of the posts, but as to the one before me... Does that sort of thinking leads us to say that IF NO one is in a room, there are no eyes from which God could get informed, and hence cant see what is in there? Dont think so... Time as WE know it, is an invention FOR man. Although i agree that God not only sees TIME and SPACE totally but dwells in it, i understand that there is so much to see, and know, that we are only grasping the borders of His ways.... i mean...how can you decribe "infinity" or Eternity? No "finite" mind cand produce an infinite"comprehention"if not Through God himself. It is so wonderful to contemplate the inmensity of what we yet dont know that it's worth a lifetime only thinking about it...even if people didnt get to ever understand it. But we know we will...just as HE has... Its something very hard to reconcile because of antropomorphic ideas of God, (with which i agree totally), but one thing i heard in a movie(mothman prophecies), when the guy asked if these "beings"were as us or were "absolutely"powerful...the other man said, "do you see the man in that building?(a man in a 10th floor window) The man said yes. The other one said: If a car crash occured, three streets ahead of this one, WE being in the mere street, would not see it(maybe hear it), but that man may see it, BECAUSE OF HIS POSITION...but that does'nt mean that he has in his own a capability of more excellence for he is a person just like us..." Now, the lord said to Abraham , These two facts exist, there are two spirits, one above the other, there will be more above the two of them(as well as below)...(again) two spirits, one more intelligent than the other.... I am the Lord your God, I am more intelligent than all of them... So God by some means we yet dont know...can know and BE above everything and yet WITHIN it...as the man in the window...above the streets but IN the streets... How is that possible...we dont know....YET. But mostly i agree with your reasonings and like them.... Thanks.. "To forgive is...to be right again."

Its not my favorite, for i dont have one, i like many as to say "that one"is the one, but the other day I was reading and remembered this one, that I think to be very special...Moses 7:41.

Hi, just to say that I really liked this conference , it was filled with much more "tolerance" and "forgiving" focus... Anyways , i committed myself to some of the things I learned there, and although many complain because Authorities always "repeat" the messages, Abinadi told the court of Noah that as they had forgotten the spirit of the Law, it was necessary for him to repeat it, and so he decleared the whole law again to them, and though it seemed unnecessary because those corrupted priests knew the Law, it was, because they did'nt live up to it... Take care...

Hi. For all its worth, the Gospel teaches that NO one that has not been born both of water and Spirit can go there. And hence there is ONE valid baptism, Jesus's one. I mean, this Church's. So any person that dies without it needs it to progress, and have peace here. If not, and all people could go to paridise without the baptisms, there would be no justice at all. Though the Lord has said that He gives rewards to those who never baptized or knew the gospel but if they would have been exposed to it would have embraced it, still need the ordinances. But remember, that the Lord is a Lord of Justice but too of mercy, and these teachings are far more mercyful that those of a heaven and hell in which no one gets a second chance. This may also bring other doubts, as to Alma's statement that THIS life is the ONLY time for us to prepare for heaven, and yes it is, BUT just for those who ever encountered and knew the gospel and had the chance to embrace it. Those that did not, will have a chance. And those who had the chance, will be judged by the Lord and may have (up to the circumstances) a chance again, but NOT to exaltation but to inhrit a kingdom of less glory. May God bless you and please , always try to know all things from the very God.

Hi brethren ! Just to participate, I believe what you all think in this matter, although i have a different point of view toward the "Church'. The need for its principles will endure for ever, and even when people get exalted they will continue it through their "works and worlds made', so they can too exalt their own spiritual children, as our Prophets teach. But a Seventy once told me that the Church per se will not exist for ever as to us is implied. If you see, the three purposes of the church are purposes that will be completely acomplished when this earth comes to its end to be celestialized. The organization there will be a patriarcal one, no Prophets leading no one for Christ will be our own King, and we'll be all "chained" through the sealings as a eternal family one presiding the other in a patriarcal way. As the Father will preside all, and so Christ, and so Adam, and so Noah, and so... I will preside over my children and my children over theirs, ALL a big celestial family. But no sacraments, no baptisms, no many things that the Church does NOW to perfect us HERE. This all i mean towards the exalted ones, but towards the other kingdoms of glory i do not know, for they will always have to be learning and progressing (not as the exalted ones who will not progress throgh learning but will know all things and progress creating earths for their children too), and will remain with 'ministering" angels and so... This is just an opinion. Thanks an Bye. ******************************************************************** "If God commanded me to do all things, I could do all things." Nephi