mominzion

In mormon doctrine look under all the references for pre-existence, spirits, intelligence, spirit children...etc. Bruce R. McConkie states that our spirits were born. Born from unorganized spiritual matter. I've learned a lot from that book. I LOVE IT.

OK, this post is taking tons of different avenues. Wow...many ways to look at it. Well my main thought is, children cannot sin (under the age of eight), so if they were possessed by an evil spirit, they wouldn't be accountable for their actions, that I understand....the question at hand is.. "IS AN EVIL SPIRIT ALLOWED TO POSSESS THE BODY OF A CHILD?" Now on the matter of determining if a person is possessed by an evil spirit, or just a whack-a-do....I know we are given many helps to determine...I know you will know the difference between the an evil spirit and a child throwing a temper....like a prior poster posted, it is a dark consuming feeling....you will know by one of these means... 1. Holy ghost, the barer of truth and discernment. Whether you are a member or not, he will speak to you when needed. Members are blessed with his constant companionship as long as they are living righteously. 2. Discernment. Some are given this gift, it is true. Member or not member, we are ALL given spiritual gifts & talents. it is up to us to utilize these gifts or let them atrophy. 3. We are all given the light of christ. To be able to recognize the light...or truth. I was taught that if we are attacked by the evil spirit, we can command him out (in the name of the Savior) and they have to comply. I don't have to have the priesthood to command an evil spirit from my presence. I don't know about possession, but in circumstances where I feel the evil spirit around me, I know I can cast it out. Again, does anyone know if a child can be possessed?

"So we were in the "ghetto" part of town now " I meant to say the Ghetto part of the ward...if that clarifies anything.

I'm not sure what he does for a living to be honest with you. I followed his counsel on blind faith, I guess. I know we are done for in the credit department that's for sure. Ya, I don't want to bad mouth him, but he is not one of my favorite people. You see I think our ward was in for some financial crisis or something. We had a new subdivision built and that consisted of the MAJORITY of the ward....The ward was even named after this subdivision when we split from our old ward. So we were in the "ghetto" part of town now (although it was still decent)-it really is quite a yuppy kind of ward. Most of the ward is young people with kids under 5 that bought houses on floating mortgages (housing prices $250-450 G range). So way over most of their heads. Well the economy started crumbling and badda bing badda boom....now everyone is hurting. That ward really has left a bad taste in my mouth to be honest about it. I shouldn't say the ward...the way the ward was run. When we went to the Bishop for help with our house payment, he flat out told us "That is not what the fast offerings were intended for." So I left there so confused! I just figure he needs to study a little more. Hopefully he gets it. I pray that he will because My mom who is a widow and many of my siblings still live in that ward. It breaks my heart when I see the unsupportive nature that goes on. I know that bishop loves them, but he doesn't thoroughly explain what he is wanting them (used to include me) to learn....he ain't great with communication. I know he is guided, but explain what way we need to go with some sort of explaination. I always felt more bewildered when I left his office then when I got there, but I also felt more like I have to do this on my own and not rely on his help. So there you have it in a nutshell. I'm not resentful....just conserned about how things are handled. I am still a very active memeber, and in no way have let our personality clashes wave my testimony. If it were just me that had a problem I wouldn't even of mentioned it, but everyone that I've heard that has the same oppinion as myself is from the part of the ward that I am.....not in that gated subdivision. Go figure.

Can children under the age of accountability be possessed by evil spirits? Does anyone have any literature on this they can share? This was also another topic of conversation last sunday, and I was under the assumption that they were protected? I was told they were allowed to be possessed, but were not responsible for their actions. What is the correct answer here?

Ok, I feel TONS better about this subject. I'm not sure I could of understood it on my own in the depth that I was helped here on this forum. I would think that Intelligence is equal to our soul. We are literally 3 layers deep ! :) Just like our bodys cannot function without our spirits, our spirits cannot function without our intelligence. This makes sense to me. Intelligence is also equal to energy....energy has no begining has no end.....it has always existed. Only HF knows how to manipulate that energy to create our spirits. Heavenly Mother I feel is manditory to create this process or else why would it be mandatory for us to be sealed to obtain the highest degree of glory? She is required in the creation of her spirit children. It is all beautiful when you think of it. I'm so glad you guys helped me here. Now I want to share this with my RS, but don't know how! lol. I think I will write my RS president and explain that doctrine a little more indepth and let her decide what she needs to do. Thanks again!

Thank you...I think I was more along the right lines then.....It is just sad that most of our RS believes otherwise. Sometimes I wish our Bishop would sit in on some of these lessons....It is a hen pecking party...I swear! Thanks for your insight!

We are barely holding our noses up above water...if you can call it that. We aren't on the streets yet. I am very blessed because we purchased our home from my mom-in-law and she won't foreclose on us (not that we are at that point, but future security I guess). No bank owns any of it....that in itself is a relief! My husband owned a business for 3 years that was basically a handyman thing...he worked for realtors that had to have a punch list done in order to sell the house. It was pretty lucrative, but then the real estate business came to a hault! So needless to say we needed to do something in a hurry. I am on disability so we couldn't make it on mine. Our economy in Albuquerque NM was nearly impossible to manage on basically one income....and him finding a job and add that income to my income, you might have a single person's income! Anyway our Bishop told us to move back to Mississippi. THis is where our original house that we bought from dh mom is. He also advised us to let our house go back to the bank (we couldn't sell it for what we borrowed on it). So basically our financial status is in the toilet. We are filing bankruptcy, and starting over. That is NOT an easy process either. I have no doubt that we will pull through. We won't be eating steak for dinner, but my babies won't be hungry either. I have been working my heart out canning, and preserving foods. Gathering essentials...etc. We have been more focused on what we have been taught throughout the years. Just too bad it took a crash in economy to wake us up. It does make it harder, but it is still doable.....I am proof of that. My children feel picked on because they don't have the coolest things in their peer groups, but it is agood lesson for them too. It just breaks my heart when my 12 year old son comes home and says, with tears, "Mom, do you know how it feels to be the one that has to ask..."what if we can't afford it" when the teacher wants money for things?" That one really got me. But what do you do? We are all in this together. Side note....my husband has been through about 4 jobs since we've moved in March. He is now working in a factory as a full time employee with benefits....so hopefully we have found our place.

Ok, this last Sunday, we learned about something that I thought I knew, but I guess, either I don't know what I'm talking about or I do and most of the gals in my RS don't..... We learned about our intelligences / spirits being immortal...well to be immortal, we must have no end or no begining. That part I understand. BUT, I was always taught that our spirits are born and it is our intelligences that are immortal. Intelligences meaning "energy". From what I understand quantum phyisics to be is all things are energy. Well we know that HF works with all the laws of the universe and has the knowledge of how to create using that energy. For example he knew how to take a rib and reform it into a woman.....he knew how to make multiple fish and bread from just a few fish and loaves....and he knows how to turn the water into blood or the staff into a snake....these examples can go on and on. But I think you get what I'm saying. So if our spirits are forever, then we are NOT born. Then what would the purpose of a HF & mother be? It really irritated me, but I didn't know how to express myself in class. You have to understand that I live in the bible belt and our ward is barely a ward size with people that mostly have come from different prodestant backgrounds. Well they can be overbaring at times. I'm not from here and therefor are an outsider, and my ways are not their ways and sometimes that isn't good. I just want to know...does anyone understand this? If you want a reference, It was taught from the JS teachings manual chapter 17, I think...maybe 18. What are you thoughts?

I wish you luck in your search...I pray that you will find what you are looking for. We seem to have things thrown at us from all different angles out there in the world, but I KNOW I find no better peace of heart and peace of mind than when I am doing what I am taught to do. WHen I say that, I mean from the scriptures. Obedience is our key to freedom. When I decide to wander from that, I end up in a heep of you-know-what! So I try to stay on the path as best as I can. The church (as with ANY organization of people) will always have someone in it that doesn't know when to keep their mouths shut. That is just the way it is, I'm afraid. So many strong members have let this be there downfall...they go apostate because someone said something offensive to them. This is when Satan sticks his nose into it and finds and opening to discourage us. We have to remember that the people are not the gospel. The Gospel is perfect like its creator. We are the imperfect, seeking to improve ourselves by partaking of it and practicing it's teachings. I know it has been said before, but go with your gut. Does it leave you feeling uneasy? Then what you are learning is wrong....or does it bring peace? Isn't it wonderful that we are entitled to personal revelation? If not, we all would be brainwashed followers. I think there lies the misconception. Brainwashing if for those that can't think for themselves. We guide our children in the ways of the Lord (as every faith out there), and we continue to pray for them after they start making decisions for themselves. There will come a time when everyone will have to determine if they have a testimony or not of the truthfulness of the gospel and the organization of the church (those that are born into it...is what I'm referring to). I was born into the gospel and when I was 13 was when it hit me like a ton of bricks that I was where I was suppose to be. How do you describe a testimony? I don't know....I just know that YOU will know when you need to know. Keep searching diligently with an open heart and mind....you will just know when you are suppose to know and how you are suppose to know. Sometimes your answers come in ways you weren't expecting.

Who actually owns the Federal Reserve Central Banks? The ownership of the 12 Central banks, a very well kept secret, has been revealed: Rothschild Bank of London Warburg Bank of Hamburg Rothschild Bank of Berlin Lehman Brothers of New York Lazard Brothers of Paris Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy Goldman, Sachs of New York Warburg Bank of Amsterdam Chase Manhattan Bank of New York (Reference 14, P. 13, Reference 12, P. 152) These bankers are connected to London Banking Houses which ultimately control the FED. When England lost the Revolutionary War with America (our forefathers were fighting their own government), they planned to control us by controlling our banking system, the printing of our money, and our debt (Reference 4, 22). The individuals listed below owned banks which in turn owned shares in the FED. The banks listed below have significant control over the New York FED District, which controls the other 11 FED Districts. These banks also are partly foreign owned and control the New York FED District Bank. (Reference 22) First National Bank of New York James Stillman National City Bank, New York Mary W. Harnman National Bank of Commerce, New York A.D. Jiullard Hanover National Bank, New York Jacob Schiff Chase National Bank, New York Thomas F. Ryan Paul Warburg William Rockefeller Levi P. Morton M.T. Pyne George F. Baker Percy Pyne Mrs. G.F. St. George J.W. Sterling Katherine St. George H.P. Davidson J.P. Morgan (Equitable Life/Mutual Life) Edith Brevour T. Baker (Reference 4 for above, Reference 22 has details, P. 92, 93, 96, 179) How did it happen? After previous attempts to push the Federal Reserve Act through Congress, a group of bankers funded and staffed Woodrow Wilson's campaign for President. He had committed to sign this act. In 1913, a Senator, Nelson Aldrich, maternal grandfather to the Rockefellers, pushed the Federal Reserve Act through Congress just before Christmas when much of Congress was on vacation (Reference 3, 4, 5). When elected, Wilson passed the FED. Later, Wilson remorsefully replied (referring to the FED), "I have unwittingly ruined my country" (Reference 17, P. 31). Now the banks financially back sympathetic candidates. Not surprisingly, most of these candidates are elected (Reference 1, P. 208-210, Reference 12, P. 235, Reference 14, P. 36). The bankers employ members of the Congress on weekends (nickname T club -out Thursday...-in Tuesday) with lucrative salaries (Reference 1, P. 209). Additionally, the FED started buying up the media in the 1930's and now owns or significantly influences most of it Reference 3, 10, 11, P. 145). Presidents Lincoln, Jackson, and Kennedy tried to stop this family of bankers by printing U.S. dollars without charging the taxpayers interest (Reference 4). Today, if the government runs a deficit, the FED prints dollars through the U.S. Treasury, buys the debt, and the dollars are circulated into the economy. In 1992, taxpayers paid the FED banking system $286 billion in interest on debt the FED purchased by printing money virtually cost free (Reference 12, P. 265). Forty percent of our personal federal income taxes goes to pay this interest. The FED's books are not open to the public. Congress has yet to audit it. resource: http://www.apfn.org/APFN/fed_reserve.htm It is all private owned! If more people were aware of these things, we would have more power as a people. Let's do our homework....

Welcome & thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and beliefs. Doesn't it feel good to testify of what you feel is true? It is good practice and more of us should follow your example.

I personally believe this is not a fixable problem, as we are way beyond a band-aid. We are obviously at a collapse. But it IS because of a failed system. I don't see how we can recover. How about this....if Bush distributes that money to the people...then we can pay off our homes by paying the banks back...they in turn can stay open and running, then we can delay the inevitable a little longer! I'm not going to pretend to know the answers...I just know our leaders have let us down for a very long time now. Especially this one. I'm not a kerry supporter either....so he did look like the better of the 2, but really what options do we have anymore?

I agree with the last post....I watched my father suffer with the same sort of thing. he was put on zoloft and that changed his life. When he and my mom fought, he would call her ugly names and was really hurtful. He HONESTLY doesn't remember doing these sort of things. That bugged me and I asked a doctor about it one time and he said that some people have a chemical imbalance so intense that when they get angry, it overloads them and makes the "grey out" therefore making them not remember what happened. Kind of like their body's way of protecting them. He said it was like a little seizure in the brain. Not big enough to cause damamge, but on that makes recall impossible. My dad was a wonderful man. He was a spiritual giant in life. He had MANY friends, but when he would get ugly...it was like BOOM! This is why I was so perplexed. he had over 500 people attend his funeral (that is just those we counted in the book. There was no seating left in our chapel and over flows. It was amazing. That testified to me that he was a good person! I miss him dearly. I think what you will find is a vicious cycle too. They get mad at the stuff they do remember themselves doing and that makes them get ugly in general. over and over they do this.

agreed!

I'm sorry if I offended you...I wasn't sure when i was typing it...and that wasn't my intension. Um, about the celebrating of April 6. I've been a member all my life and I've never seen it celebrated. We celebrate his birth with all those who celebrate on Dec 25. We might have a special broadcast centered on the divinity of Christ or something on Apr 6, but nothing in the monumental way we do Dec 25 with gifts, tree, traditions...etc. We are pretty normal in that aspect. Heehee. I hope that answered your question. It is just one of those things that...it's just a date. We better get some christmas shopping done, eh? We are starting to run out of time! lol:D

Dear Sweet sister....I have a dear freind that just endured the same sort of thing you are going through. The problem for me was I was good freinds with both husband AND wife. The main thing is to stay in VERY close personal contact with your BP. You need someone to boost you up and give you support. You will feel like you have lost when you hit the point of "no resolve". So it is vital to have clear communication with him. I know my friend was scared to death to go to the bishop and endured a few intese screaming matches with her husband over it. He told her he wasn't going, but because he was so worried about saving face and "appearing to be obedient to the bishop" he showed. Also he was good deep down, he just has some unresolved personal stuff he has to work out himself. he came from an abusive mother. The thing is, your husband may not even know what is going on or why he acts the way he does. My second bit of advice is to try to change the way you feel/respond. Some of the best advice my mother gave me is, "It takes 2 people to fight....be the bigger person and back down." This is tricky because I'm not encouraging you to absorb the blows either. You are going to have to learn that his anger is NOT directed at you. It is directed at something else that is bothering him. Whatever that may be. You are his soundboard. He is misplacing his anger. This is why you need to seek counsel from your BP at the same time. To help yourself...to build your self back up. Also it is essential for him to seek help. Which sounds like that is what is going to happen here soon? You said the BP and Stake Pres. was aware and helping? My friend's husband told her she was the one with the prob not him....denied it when it came from her, but when he was sat down by the bishop and force to look at it and heard it from a 3rd party, he started to see the light and HIS shortcomings. You will be blue in the face if you try to express where he is wrong. Now the not so fun part....(I know the rest isn't fun either, but this is important too)... if "a" + "b" = "c" Change "b" to "x". Does that make sence? What I mean is, if what you are doing isn't working, whether it be telling him what he needs or trying to defend yourself in and argument...etc, try something else. You are the ONLY person that can change something that is bothering you. You can ask him, but that is all you can do...you can make him. Please don't take this to mean that ANYTHING is your fault, that isn't want I'm saying. This is more for survival mode, not the answer for your problem. Does that make sence? Here is an example....If he says, "This thread on my garment is dirty, you didn't clean it!" instead of retorting with "It went through the wash the same time as everything else!" say something different like, "It looks like I will have to wash that again." Avoid taking on the line he gives you that you did it wrong, or are lazy, because logically, you know that isn't right. I had to tell my freind all the time that she needed to change her responses....because she had the same tone of defense....and tried to defend what she did....never worked. She started seeing results as she changed things. She too was questioning if she should of been sealed to him. She is a new convert and he is a forever member. I can tell you that She is stronger in faith than he. Oh, one more thing....this helped her too....DIET! I know that sounds silly, but I have seen this in my own life! I noticed that My freinds husband was grouchier if he was hungry or if he ate a lot of carbs and little protien. I told her to feel him more frequent smaller meals.....and more protein. he will never know what you are trying to do, and he will feel like you are "taking care of him" through making sure he is fed. This sounds silly I know, but carbs can turn your mood into a beast! I've seen it in myself. Cereal is my worst enemy! I get so GROUCHY! She would slip him pepperonis and cheese sticks as afternoon snacks. Make him eggs in the morning...etc. Whenever she could boost that protien. It works. I know that is more work on you, but it has made a world of difference in their fighting frequency & intensity. My heart goes out to you. You are obviously a strong woman. Remember to try to stay that way. Remember that you are precious to the Lord......Remember that he loves you both. No one but your BP can advice you on continuing on to the temple together or not. We love you and pray for you.

After reading my last post, let me clarify something......The Bankers are in control of our money system...our Government is NOT in control of it. we are at the bankers mercy.

I am with you on this one....we as a nation have really messed up. You sound like a freedom fighter...I love it. I am a seeker of truth, and this my friend is no lie.... We are going to be forced to change anyway....better to change now and even if we do have to suffer some, it will not compare to the suffering we will have to endure later when it collapses. I feel this is when the law of consecraction will come into play though. That will be the only way to set it all straight. Our forefathers would be flipping in their graves if they sat in a common federal meeting now-a-days. When greed came into the government...this is where we started slipping. I am very young in understanding all of the things of the "dark world", but stand firm on the ones I do know. I am just learning the money system....from what I have heard JFK was assasinated for signing an order to place restrictions on the money system. Ronald Regan had an assasination attempt placed on him as a warning (I feel) because he was looking into a way to get the government off people's backs. The bankers are serious. They control the money...not the government. The federal reserve is just a fancy misleading title for "private owned institute"! If you are interested in more...check out YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. and look up fiat money tyranny and presidents. It gives a pretty clear run through of what is going on. Another great website that is full of "real" stories is Alex Jones' Prison Planet: The truth will set you free! I check that one often. We are headed towards a new world order and it will drag us in because the American people will feel it has no other option because our money system is so shot. Then we will have one money system. It is coming...read revelations. I hope I don't sound like a radical....I guess it is hard not too when urgency comes into play.

There are many different birthday of our Lord offered out there. Some say he was born in Sep...others in April and some in June/July. All I know is that it has been revealed to Joseph Smith as April 6th. I don't believe you are going to find a birth certificate out there.....and calculations are just that....calculations. (that is how most people get their birthday of the Savior). If the Prophet has spoken it, I can take it to my Heavenly Father and get a confirmation of the truth of his statement. That is the beauty of personal revelation....a belief in the LDS religion. As far as the birthday of God himself goes, I'm sure he had a physical birth somewhere, but it is not revealed to us where or when as far as I know. It was stated that he is eternal. Well, this is how I understand it...we have two births....we are born as a spirit to our Heavenly Father/Mother. We learn and grow in the pre-existence until the time for our "mortal" birth comes. At this point we are born to earthly parents to rear and guide us through this life (mortality). When we die, if we are proven worthy, we will have the same opportunities as God himself. So OUR spirit children will probably not know our day of birth either. So yes, he has a birthday, but we don't know when, and it isn't important for our salvation. We need to be careful not to get caught up in technical things like this, as these are the traps that Satan gets us stuck in that result in us falling away from the church. If you are not a member, it is normal to question certain things, but even LDS people do not have ALL the answers to technical questions such as the time of God's birth. If you are LDS and questioning these sort of things....pay strict attention to what you are asking and why? Is it important for your salvation? We proclaim to have the fullness of the gospel, not all the technical answers.....that is not the same. I hope I made a little sence. I ramble a lot.... :) Regarding the Savior's perfection.....Well look at it this way...can God himself do all things? He is all powerful, right? Well The savior, being part God (his literal father) and part human (Mary's genetic half), then he held God like qualities and character. BUT.....(this is a big "but") we are taught that even God has to be obedient to the Laws (eternal/physical/spiritual....etc). Is it possible for the Savior to run a marathon (in the flesh before he was resurrected)....no, his body had to obey the laws of things like gravity, speed, endurance...etc. Could he write a perfect poem? Now that is a matter of opinion as far as I'm concerned. I know he was a master story teller.....just read his parables...wonderful. Let's just put it this way, he still had a physical body that was suseptable to injury, disease, pain, hurt feelings, anger...etc....etc.....etc. He learned to master those things that he could, but he still was limited to certain physical laws. Only God knows all those laws...this is why he can work "miracles". Miracles are not magic..they are blessings given to us in ways ONLY God understands. I know this all was rattling, but I felt you needed to hear it from a different angle. Hope this helped.

Ta Da! Here I am.....Well the website said I should introduce myself. My Name is Barb and I am a mom of 4 kiddos (1 girl & 3 boys) ages 8-13, and a wife to a grizzly bear, we call Bob! He's a doll. Let's see, I live in the country in NE Mississippi. I am originally from New Mexico and my husband is from here. I love it here and don't anticipate moving until we all get that exodus call for Zion! lol. I love to sew, craft, quilt, read, play jewel quest, can, bake...you name it! I am fortunate enough to be able to stay at home. I don't know what else you would like to here about me....oh maybe music and movie likes......I like just about all sorts of music from classical to rap. It all depends on my mood. I try not to listen to music that is flat out vulgar, but try to find one anymore that isn't! I love romantic adventure movies like Indiana Jones, The mummy...etc. Absolutely hate horror flicks. Well that wraps me up....I hope to make some fellow mormon friends on this site. Thanks for the welcome!