Jenda

I, personally, liked this story. Even though I have read it before, I cried when I read it again.

You say some of the most inappropriate things in an effort to prove your point. I have never been anywhere where music was played during a prayer of any sort. Sheesh!

YES!!!Also, we do have seventies that are ordained seventies, not high priests.

Third: do you really think a man of 30 years of age can have the WISDOM and EXPERIENCE of a man that is in his 50's, 60's and older? Joseph Smith went into the sacred grove as a boy and came out a prophet, this is absolutely entirely true. However, people didn't live as long back then. So the men WERE younger. I guess it still comes down to, it doesn't matter who, age, or race ... THEY ARE CALLED OF GOD. This is a joke, right? If not, you really don't know that much about how old people lived to be back then. We look at a number called the average lifespan of a person, and at different points in time, it is different. And granted, the average lifespan back in the mid-1800s was a lot shorter than it is now. But you need to look at a specific word in that phrase, and it is "average". What does that say to you? Remember the law of averages? You take all the numbers, add them together and divide by the total number you are adding. Voila, you get the "average". Back then, many, many (if not most) children died in childbirth. That dropped the average lifespan by probably 20 years. Back then, there were no cures for diseases, or immunizations to prevent disease. That dropped the averag lifespan several years. Back then, women died in childbirth. That dropped the average lifespan some. But those that lived through childbirth, and disease lived to be ripe old people. So, please drop the innuendo that the only reason that young people had spiritual experiences was because there were no older people. God works with those who seek Him, no matter how old they are.

Doesn't it say that they can be assisted in ALL their duties by the deacon? In the CofC can a deacon bless the sacrament if occasion requires? Now, the real issue here is how one interprets the word administer. We see it as offering the prayer. The preparation and passing of the sacrament isn't the administration. the prayer is. No, a teacher or deacon cannot assist in the sacraments/ordinances (any of them) in any way. If there is no priest or elder available, the sacrament of the Lord's Supper is not served. Neither are marriages performed, or people baptized, etc.It says that the elders and priests can be assisted in all duties except in the performance of the sacraments. In the CoC, administer means to prepare, bless and pass out the emblems. It is all considered part of the sacrament and therefore must be performed by the person responsible for the service (elder or priest). Depending on how large the congregation is, and how many priesthood members there are available to do it, we often have 2-4 priesthood administering the sacrament. And as I said earlier, they do not pass the trays down the row, they serve each person personally. There is a lot of theology involved in the sacraments, and it should not be watered down. IMO.

Hey Jenda - I'm curious. Can you be more specific with this statement. What do you mean? M. These are the duties of the priesthood members. From Section 17:8a-11f RLDS (20:38-59 LDS) 8a The duty of the elders, priests, teachers, deacons, and members of the church of Christ: 8b An apostle is an elder, and it is his calling to baptize, and to ordain other elders, priests, teachers, and deacons, and to administer bread and wine--the emblems of the flesh and blood of Christ-- 8c and to confirm those who are baptized into the church, by the laying on of hands for the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, according to the Scriptures; 8d and to teach, expound, exhort, baptize, and watch over the church; 8e and to confirm the church by the laying on of the hands, and the giving of the Holy Ghost, 8f and to take the lead of all meetings. 9 The elders are to conduct the meetings as they are led by the Holy Ghost, according to the commandments and revelations of God. 10a The priest's duty is to preach, teach, expound, exhort, and baptize, and administer the sacrament. 10b and visit the house of each member, and exhort them to pray vocally and in secret, and attend to all family duties: 10c and he may also ordain other priests, teachers, and deacons; 10d and he is to take the lead of meetings when there is no elder present, but when there is an elder present he is only to preach, teach, expound, exhort, and baptize, and visit the house of each member, exhorting them to pray vocally and in secret, and attend to all family duties. 10e In all these duties the priest is to assist the elder if occasion requires. 11a The teacher's duty is to watch over the church always, and be with, and strengthen them, and see that there is no iniquity in the church, neither hardness with each other; neither lying, backbiting, nor evil speaking; 11b and see that the church meet together often, and also see that all the members do their duty, 11c and he is to take the lead of meetings in the absence of the elder or priest, 11d and is to be assisted always, in all his duties in the church, by the deacons, if occasion requires; 11e but neither teachers nor deacons have authority to baptize, administer the sacrament, or lay on hands; 11f they are, however, to warn, expound, exhort, and teach, and invite all to come unto Christ. It is the elders and priests responsibility to bless and administer the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper. The teachers and deacons are not authorized to participate in any way in any of the ordinances/sacraments. I used to frequently attend an LDS church, and after the emblems were blessed, they were then served by any of the priesthood. In fact, the trays were passed down the row of people seated in the sanctuary. In our church, the plate does not leave the hand of the priest or elder serving the emblems.

The washing of feet was always an exclusive ordinance reserved for the president of the church. The directions for it are given in the D&C. It was reserved for the president of the church to perform to those who attended the School of the Prophets. D&C 85:44b-46 RLDS (88:136-141 LDS) 44b And ye are called to do this by prayer and thanksgiving, as the Spirit shall give utterance, in all your doings in the house of the Lord, in the school of the prophets, that it may become a sanctuary, a tabernacle, of the Holy Spirit to your edification. 45 And ye shall not receive any among you into this school, save he is clean from the blood of this generation; and he shall be received by the ordinance of the washing of feet, for unto this end was the ordinance of the washing of feet instituted. 46a And again, the ordinance of washing feet is to be administered by the president, or presiding elder of the church. 46b It is to be commenced with prayer; and after partaking of bread and wine, he is to gird himself, according to the pattern given in the thirteenth chapter of John's testimony concerning me. Amen. And I don't understand why the LDS have departed from the scriptural commandment regarding serving the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper. The RLDS still hold fast to this commandment. And we still have a presiding patriarch. Well, I take that back. We don't have patriarchs anymore since women started being ordained into the higher quorums. But we have a presiding evangelist (a rose by any other name (or so they say)), and he acts as the minor prophet of the church. In fact, the presiding evangelist is more of a prophet than the prophet (if you get my drift.) (I am not happy with this whole scenario, but don't get me started. )

In the Community of Christ, we have had a Japanese and an African apostle. And none of the first presidency are American (they are all white, but not American.) And the age of the apostles has been steadily decreasing, some are being ordained in their late 40's. The president of the church is probably in his mid-50's, and has been president for 6 or 8 years.

Why don't they start ordaining younger men into the higher offices? I mean, Joseph Smith was 39 when he was killed and he had started a church by then, and all the men he ordained were about his age (give or take), except his father, who, as presiding patriarch, was supposed to be an older figure.

No one knows who wrote John. It's primarily a matter of tradition. The author claims to have been an eyewitness to the events he described and the proof of such is that he claimed it. There is a bit of external testimony. Iraneus, a disciple of Polycarp claimed Johannine authorship but he lived well after the time of John so he is only a secondhand, late source. That could be true, of course, if you discount Christ's testimony in 3 Nephi about John being changed in the twinkling of an eye, just like the 3 Nephites, and is still alive today doing the same work he was commissioned to do close to 2000 years ago. Yeah, RIGHT! The idea of immortal men wandering about cracks me up! The mormon legends about the 3 Nephites are funny to read. I think the existance of vampires and werewolves is more likely. . . . . . C'mon! You've never heard any "3 Nephite" testimonies?

No one knows who wrote John. It's primarily a matter of tradition. The author claims to have been an eyewitness to the events he described and the proof of such is that he claimed it. There is a bit of external testimony. Iraneus, a disciple of Polycarp claimed Johannine authorship but he lived well after the time of John so he is only a secondhand, late source. That could be true, of course, if you discount Christ's testimony in 3 Nephi about John being changed in the twinkling of an eye, just like the 3 Nephites, and is still alive today doing the same work he was commissioned to do close to 2000 years ago.

There's nothing like all-day "morning" sickness to make one rethink her future pregnancy plans, lol. Just wait 'til how you feel during labor. You might be one of those women who are screaming at their husband, "What did you DO to me! This is all YOUR fault. STAY AWAY FROM ME!" in between contractions. That's why epidurals are also our friends. :) But seriously, I hope your stomach feels better soon! With my older daughter, my water broke at 8am on Saturday morning, but I did not go into labor. At 2pm I went to the hospital and they wouldn't let me go home, but they decided to wait till the next morning to induce me if nothing had started by then. (All this time I was having Braxton-Hicks contractions, but no labor.) At 10am the next morning, the took me back to L&D and started inducing me. Except for that, I went all natural, no epidurals. At 12:26am Monday morning, my daughter was born. After being awake for almost 48 hours, 40 hours of contractions of one form or another, as soon as my daughter was born I looked at my husband and said "Can we have another?" LOL.

Well, at least the thrust of the article is a step in the right direction. People are pulling out of the program because of their discriminatory actions. Sounds good to me!

Didn't your foray on ChristianForums teach you anything?

I'm pretty sure that the jews of the bible were black, unlike the European decended jews of today. I'll go do some research and let you know. The middle-eastern Jews and the European Jews are not the same. A lot of the European Jews are converts. The middle-eastern Jews would look like their Palestinian cousins (since they are ..... well......... cousins (genetically speaking)), olive-complected.

Jesus would have been olive-complected, like the Jews of the middle east today.

<span style=\'color:purple\'>YES!!!!! Because it would be. Christ will come back when the world is ready for him, when a people have prepared a place for him. When He comes, Zion will come again, and He will reign there for 1000 years.Some of us really believe this and pray for it daily. I am one of them.

I read the story years ago on a website chock-full of inspirational readings, and it did not have the preface attached to it that it does here in this thread, and I felt it was extremely insightful. It helped bring something that is fairly esoteric into grasping reach for those who are not well-versed Christians, who struggle to understand the meaning of Christ's sacrifice and how it is personal to each one. Aside from the false intro, I believe the story has more to offer than any other inspirational story I have read, and is on par with, if not slightly above, Footsteps.

I have to say that I agree with Cal on this one. This story reads like something straight off the lips of Paul H. Dunn. On the surface it appears to be a tearjerker, but it is nothing more than a lie masquerading as truth for the purpose of emotional manipulation. Which lie, exactly, would that be?

<span style=\'color:purple\'>YES!!!!!

In your own home, as you wake up in the morning? No Rodney, anywhere, anytime, any home. There is NO rule against smelling coffee :) Which is why I said originally "There's no rule against smelling coffee :)" <span style=\'color:red\'>ROFLOL!!!

Actually, I appreciate what you have written, it makes it easier to understand, in some ways. Although being the fundamentalist that I am, I am also interested in those theologians that still believe that the gospel writers were actually present with Jesus.

You continue to confuse someone going over and reading things with trolling and bashing. Of the people you listed, Peace, Snow, Spencer, (and I don't even know who elderbell is) did not go over and post, they just read the board. Ammon was already a poster there, and I did not go over to "bash", as you put it. I went over to do damage control when the trolls from there came here. And you know that, because we talked that night.What is your definition of "a regular basis"? The only other two or three that posted did so for 2 days, and didn't go back. I, alone, have stayed over there, and was even invited by Dr. Steve to participate in a discussion there. And never have I bashed. I did defend myself that first night when others bashed me, but I did not bash anyone. IMO, what went on here IN ONE THREAD (or two (if you count this one)), is nothing compared to what goes on over there on a daily basis. The difference is that here, it is virtually non-existent, but there there are multiple threads on a daily basis that are designed to do nothing but bash LDS and JW's. With the exception of the fallout of what transpired that night about a month ago, there is nothing remotely similar to that here. And there isn't anything any more "Christian" when you do it than when "we" do it.

Sorry.

I asked for proof... and you diverted the subject and threatened me with "moderator status". No, I didn't divert the subject, what I said about moderated status was an aside. That aside had to do with your "put up or shut up" statement. I even highlighted it so you would understand that that was what I was talking about. That's a threat to keep me from contronting you again and expecting you to post the proof of your statement. You can confront me all you want. But the proof is on you at this point in time. You are the one who made the first accusation. Sorry, you are barking up the wrong tree. Since I am not LDS, I have no hidden motives here. Now, if you came to my church's board, then I might. Here, all I am concerned with is how people treat each other. In case you need to recall the rules of the board, they are pinned to the top of the topic index. I'm not asking you to back down, but you do need to address the problem you have created by accusing everyone here of trolling on another board.