captainmoroni1265

Several years ago I went to the leadership in my ward and offered to maintain a website for the ward. The answer they gave me was an emphatic, curt, and resounding NO. I was very disappointed that they would not see the potential of the internet as a gospel tool, but I sustained my leaders and accepted their counsel. I am hoping that some other time God will pave the way for me to serve such a function, according to His Will. I have decided that until then I am going to follow Elder Ballard's admonition for church members to be active on the internet as a whole, and raise their voices in testimony. :)

"What think Ye of the Book of Mormon?" Here is my answer: It is Word of God, received and written by the power of God, preserved through history by the power of God, translated and published by the power of God, and no unholy hand or institution will ever be able to stop its words from being read and spoken throughout the earth. Before any anti flames me, I am fully aware they harbor criticism of specific items in its content. They should keep in mind however, that any intelligent, educated atheist can point out all sorts of faults with The Bible. It is for that reason that I declare only the power of God through the Holy Ghost can establish the book's truth, as it has for me many, many times.

I've always wondered that myself. Consider the words of Gamaliel to his Rabbinical students, when the new "upstart" sect of Christians started to spread. He told them, in effect that if Christianity was false, just leave them alone and don't worry about it. God would take care of them and nobody would miss anything. But if the Christians were true, then it would be wise to respect them, or risk being judged by God for harming his people. One thing I definitely know for certain: I am either a Mormon or I am Agnostic. I have seen enough of the inner workings of some "modern" Christian church organizations to make it very unlikely I would ever join any of them. I would associate with individual Christians ok, but none of the churches. Their entire identity is wrapped up in trying desperately to justify their decision to leave. They are consumed by the burning unconscious fear that maybe they actually might be wrong. This is especially seen in those who leave for reasons of transgression. So many accuse Mormons of not thinking for themselves, and then they parrot line for line all the old tired anti mormon rhetoric they get from their pastor. They can't think for themselves, either. I can remember being chased through a parking lot by a wild-eyed, mouth-foaming jesus-freak in a car. He was bound and intent on keeping my mission companion and I from leaving until he could finish his screaming harangue. I can remember having rocks thrown at me while I was on my bike. I can remember having brooms and baseball bats swung at me on doorsteps. I am glad to know that someone else saw through those words like I did.

I have already apologized to him as he had asked in his PM to me, and he indicated that he accepted my apology. I explained to him the case of mistaken identity, and he said he understood.

Your characterization of my response is overly exaggerated. I never used the words "how dare," nor did I mean any kind of related tone. I am trying to say that I find his choice of words to mean far more than whimsical humor. I base this suspicion upon personal past experience with anti-mormons on other forums, and in my personal life. Many of them are very adept at word games, and go to great lengths to cast themselves as poor victims of Mormon backlash. You are a peacemaker, and that I can respect. However, please let me fill you in on some of my background. I served my Mormon-Christian mission in Orange County, California. At the time, that particular area was, (and I hear still is) a hotbed of intense anti-Mormon activity. Walter Martin lived there when he was alive, Ed Decker made frequent speaking appearances, Melodyland "Christian Center" (where Jessica Hahn used to work once) routinely made public showings of the temple film and priesthood robes, The Eagle's Nest declared a crusade against Mormons, and so on ad nauseum. While tracting I had to deal with verbal abuse from anti-mormons every day. I'm not talking about average, honest citizens who politely told us no -- I'm talking about theological predators who would seek us out specifically to harangue us with tirades, or to flatter us with sweetie-pie "Christian Love" to "save us from our error." My bad manners was in accusing him of being another "Erik Johnson" without proof. Never did I *specifically* accuse our Erik of being anti-mormon. I only tried to explain that I have suspicions about his motives for spending time on a Mormon forum, since he says he is so certain he is right for leaving the church. If the Mormon church is so wrong, why spend time still communicating with Mormons? Why not spend more time ministering to his fellow "modern" Christians? I did not take offense about playing fair. I take offense of being accused of NOT playing fair. If you read my post, I conceded his point, agreeing with him that I should play fair. HE was the one who became EXTREMELY defensive about being associated with the other Erik in his message to me. If it were me, all I would have said was "sorry dude, but you've got the wrong guy." That's it. That's all that was really needed, but he got very indignant. What was an honest mistake on my part was labeled by him as "unfair play." The label carries with it the presupposition that I am some kind of spiteful, ethically questionable person who doesn't play fair. I have spent many years reading anti-mormon material and studying anti-mormon tactics. I have been active on other forums observing their behavior, and I am familiar with the word patterns they use to troll and flame-bait. They parrot the same patterns every time -- it is ridiculous how predictable some of them are. I have also spent a lot of time studying sophistry, logical fallacies, Neuro Lingustic Programming, Ericksonian Hypnosis, and Communist Thought Reform. I have analyzed the psychological tactics that anti-Mormons use, and I have found they use quite a lot of the above techniques. So, when I see an anti-Mormon start in with their word games (speaking of other places, not this particular instance) I call them out on it. I'll concede that Erik is a honest individual, seeking only peace and communication with Mormons, for whatever reasons he has. My reaction was based on prior negative experience. I confessed that to him already. My mistake was judging too quickly before observing more of the situation, which I have also confessed to Erik. You have my commitment to think my words through more carefully, you have my commitment to respect others' right to disagree, HOWEVER -- I reserve my own right to be suspicious of a person's motives BEHIND their disagreement. Is it honest human difference, or is it a calculated method of trying disseminate anti-Mormon faith-poison. I have respect for honest human difference. I refuse to respect faith-poison.

The same reason any nation needs an army -- for the defense of freedom. Australian Troops have distinguished themselves on the beaches of Normandy, in the deserts of North Africa, in the winter mountains of North Korea, on the beaches of the South Pacific, and I believe even the beaches of Iwo Jima. They have helped us in Bosnia and Iraq. The United States owes quite a bit to Australian veterans.

Please, Please forgive me everyone, but I just can't help myself ==> LAUGH BUTTON!

Back in the old days when USENET was still useful, it was customary to bomb the trolls with posts that quoted their flame-bait, and then say something nonsensical like "banana" or "barney." Another technique would be to bomb their posts with repeated replies simply stating "troll alert." It takes at least two or three people to do it effectively, but it works. Another technique was to email them privately with nice letters and questions, to find out if their address was valid. If it was, forum members would sign up for five or six throw-away email addresses each, and then bomb the troll's mailbox with floods of nonsense messages from each of those addresses (like yahoo, hotmail, gmail, excite, lycos, etc.) Truth be told, Anti Mormon trolls aren't worth the waste of effort to do things like that, but when you're bored it makes for quite a bit of fun. After I finished my mission, I decided I was tired of dealing with all the crafty, slick-tongued sophistry that anti-mormons get trained in, so I made it my life's pursuit to study the subject of sophistry. I highly suggest reading up on the subject of "logical fallacies." Information on that subject is easily found on the internet. Then you can take Anti arguments and pick them apart. I also suggest studying the subject of Neuro-Linguistic-Programming, and Ericksonian hypnosis. Many Anti's are very skilled in these slight-of-tongue techniques, and it would suit church members well to learn about them. Fore warned is fore armed I always say. In the grand scheme of things, however, it's far better to completely ignore Anti's because they use dissension to fill their spiritual emptiness and justify their apostasy. They are like those aliens on Star Trek that feed off of human emotion. When feeling down about the anti's, be sure to read about how wicked people treated Alma and Amulek while they held them in prison. Read about how people treated Paul in prison. Most important, read about how people treated Joseph Smith the many times they threw him in jail, or beat him, or tarred and feathered him. "For God hath not given us a Spirit of fear, but of POWER; of love, and of a sound mind." :)

I know what you mean about how good books can be influential. When I read James E. Talmadge's "The Great Apostasy," it startled me to learn about all the dissentions and factions and sects that existed after the apostles died. The more I delved into post-apostolic Christian history, the more confused I got about the many, many, different doctrines that existed, and the many differences that still exist today. My brother reads alot about early Christian history. He's got a really cool book that talks about how Greco-Roman philosophy schools influenced the formation of post-apostolic creeds and doctrines. I don't have the title at the moment, but I can get it for you. It's an interesting read, and I highly recommend it.:)

Nice little barb, there. Of course I'll answer in public (as if there were doubts?) I will concede to your point that I am not in possession of specific links to past discussions. You have my apologies, and I retract my statement, TOWARD YOU SPECIFICALLY. However, that being said: In the past, I have had unpleasant exchanges with person(s) calling themselves Erik (Eric) Johnson, with both spellings, on more than one website, for a NUMBER OF YEARS. I apologize for asserting you were one in the same. What I SHOULD HAVE SAID was "this reminds me of another Eric Johnson I've known, who is a forum troll that throws out flame-bait and plays like he's a picked-upon victim." You'll have to forgive me, but your title "Don't Hate Me Because I'm Christian" sounds very, very much like something the OTHER Erik Johnson I know would say. Even if you are not him, I find the title to be offensive, because it PRESUPPOSES that Mormons will hate you because you are Christian. It shows to me you have a low estimation of how Mormons view other Christians. The statement also carries a presupposition that Mormons and Christians are (allegedly) totally different. That's a can of worms that most people on a forum like this would prefer not to open, I'm sure, for the sake of the peace. I should have kept my comments relevant to the title of your post, rather than engaging in ad hominem assertions. That is my mistake. In the future I will qualify my statements more. Oh, and by the way: I find the title of your private message to me to be interesting. You called it "a request for fair play." That choice of words presupposes that there is a question as to whether I or Mormons in general "play fair." That is also offensive to me. I confess to my bad manners in my first post about you, but that title you chose is equally laden with insult, on your part.

I've had conversations with Erik before, also. You should see the emails he sent me when I didn't agree with his philosophizing. He comes on with "don't hate me," then he spews all sorts of hate filled invective upon anyone who disagrees with him. No matter how he tries to present himself, he only has one goal in mind -- to tell Mormons how wrong he thinks they are. "Don't hate me because I'm not Mormon" is a very common anti-mormon technique of flame-bait. It's been around since Cain almost. Don't fall for that line. (I fully expect critics now to answer this post with accusations of how much they thingk I'm a "hater." On the contrary! I love TRUE Christians who are tolerant of other faiths, and I mean truly tolerant, without an act. However, I don't have time for professional critics who sell books and movies that play upon public ignorance and fears about The Church.)

Hello everyone -- Recent statements by the General Authorities have encouraged us to speak up and testify on the Internet, so here I am! I hope to make friends with other church members, wherever they may be, and to have good discussions about learning and doctrine. Peace, C.M.