TruthSeekerToo

I don't really see how this quote from Joseph Smith is any different. Sooo, women cannot discern for themselves? People with a desire for truth, but not yet holding all those attributes, cannot discern for themselves? I have to admit I was very surprised by this statement while helping my friend plan this lesson. I really don't know if I understand the message trying to be conveyed. My mom has the gift of discernment. Is this a different kind or something? Is a "false spirit" the same as a bad spirit?

Matthew 22 The woman marries 7 brothers who all die before having any children. They ask who her husband will be in the resurrection. Christ says that the people do not understand the scriptures. 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. Now, for me this just makes it sound like there is no marriage after earth life. He is speaking to the Sadducee's who did not believe in a resurrection.

I totally agree. Words seem so inadequate(sp?) at times.

Very true. I do think repentance, prayer, study are works that help us towards our conversion. I also know that you can get different answers depending on if you have "studied it out" or not. So, yes, very important. I believe the "refiner's fire" is crucial to true conversion and sanctification. I've got some more thoughts, but can't articulate them...yet. I think you've brought up some very good points, but I can still see some difference in our conclusions.

That's the miracle, isn't it! It's all Him.

Yeah, I think that is going to be my new favorite saying. I do think my mind works different then yours, though. I believe that faith creates works naturally. I don't think adding works to belief creates faith. I also believe that pure Christlike love with move a person to works. I see works as a natural expression of faith and charity. When I see your formula I feel like you believe that the works will produce faith and charity. IMO, you can do works without faith or charity BUT you cannot have faith or charity without works being manifest.

Ahhhh, I see what you are doing. Charity is love in action.

It will always be password protected-at least to get into your account. Ordinance dates will always be hidden from non-member view (to my knowledge). They are talking about doing a version for non-members at some point in the future.

I'm looking forward to seeing how charity is not love since the scriptures teach that charity is the pure love of Christ. I have been taught that my whole life (in the LDS church).

I'm under the impression that the previous sealing will not be canceled for a woman unless she is going to be sealed to another man. In rare circumstances you can go through a lengthy process in the case of abuse to get it canceled w/o a prospective new spouse (my aunt did this).

New Familysearch is for use by members and they are slowly rolling it out across America. We've had it for many months. Utah will be the last to get it. Main difference is that it is interactive. You have a family tree that shows yourself, children, parents, spouse. You can change and add info, merge files (be careful). You can contact other members working on the same line (they don't always reply). You can also reserve names to do the temple work for and prepare them all from home. It's pretty nifty.

Yay! May 13 is a great day to get married (today is my 14 year anniversary). You've gotten great advice. I will add that whenever you argue do it with respect. If you fight dirty you will regret it. DH and I have already had an argument and made up once today...LOL Life is stressful. When you are married you are teammates working for the same cause. Life will throw you curve balls, expect it and deal with them together.

Soul_Searcher-thanks for the update. Have you found any ways to reduce your monthly bills or ways to being in any extra income?

This is taken from a paper on the history of polygamy in America. My previous post has more of the wording from the law in it. ETA: crud I'm slow. <blush>

I used to think it wasn't illegal, too. Now I understand that there were anti-bigamy laws on the books in Illinois as early as 1833. Apologetics doesn't deny it-just questions the legality of the law or that the law didn't apply to religious marriages. The D&C also contained something called the Article on Marriage which said that marriage was between one man and one woman-unless one died at which time the other was free to remarry. The article was presented to the church and accepted by common consent for the 1835 printing. It was not removed from our canon until 1876.

OP, have you prayed for peace?

What I am understanding is this: For Christians anything less than being with Christ in the eternities is hell. We may call it by another name, but being with Christ is what they consider salvation. I think what we call exaltation is what they call salvation...There are websites that outline the difference. Here is how I see grace, mercy, being saved: Hearing leads to believing which leads to faith unto repentance. This process takes us to embracing the atonement and a spiritual rebirth. You become a new creature and allow Christ to work through you. You are continually saved from sin by accepting the blood of Christ. You cannot boast in any works you manifest because they are all a manifestation of Christ. At the judgment Christ pays the price for justice for those who lay claim to his mercy. I feel like it is pretty easy to understand. But maybe I've just made it more confusing...

Actually, Hemi said it would be better to lose the house than salvation. If you lose your house because you can't pay your mortgage you will be evicted and be homeless. If you are renting and stop paying rent, once again, you will be homeless. Maybe the wink meant he was totally kidding but it was not a helpful tip. My point was that it shouldn't be an either/or situation. And if it is then we have a problem. And I believe that scripture has everything to do with tithing. I know that almost all the scriptures about the poor tell us a great deal about how the Lord sees tithing. You are entitled to your opinion, though. But, if you think that scripture is talking about child molestation or loitering you might want to read it again and pray about it. I mean, are you really serious that you see no connection? It was my way of restating (as many pp's have) that she should see her bishop because that is what tithing/offering money is supposed to be there for---to help the poor and the needy.

Well, I think a good deal of it is to avoid upset and offense. Our temple recorder gives great lessons. He said he cannot count the number of times he has had a child or grandchild in his office crying because some random non-relative did the work for their family. They were not given the opportunity to do it themselves. Now, right or wrong this is how people feel. Then, yes, we have promised the Jews that we will not do proxy work for the Holocost victims. Yet, members take it upon themselves to submit them (more than one). This is not okay. There are rules for a reason. You should do your direct line and their children and no further. If the person has a living spouse or child (or parent) you need permission. If the relative had no children then by all means, do the work.

If we allow people to live on the streets so that they can "pay their tithing" we are in serious trouble. 2 Ne. 28: 13 13 They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up.

I could be worng. I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt... It just makes me so sad if people really think that sinners shouldn't come to church. That is a sure way to empty the building.

I think the pp was specifically referring to baptism. At least, that is how I took it. All should still be welcomed at church.

I agree, Moshka. If the church is not a hospital for sinners then we might as well set up a rameumptom.

About 50% of the leaders of the Church apostatized (left the "main body" of the church) at this time in our history. One group actually excommunicated the prophet Joseph and Sidney Rigdon. Obviously, it all depends on whose perspective you look at it from. Either way, it was a big deal and qualifies as an apostacy. Don't worry about questions! Questions are good. This is stuff beyond the scope of Gospel Doctrine class. ETA: You're thinking of the "great apostacy" that we believed happened after the time of Christ-after the death of all the apostles.

The Kirtland Temple was open to all. It was a house of worship, learning and ordinances. I believe the solomn assembly(s) for the brethren was by invitation-members only. Weddings were public. The School of the Prophets was held there. This is the ceremony that took place in Kirtland: Washing with soap and water Washing with water and perfumed whiskey Consecration with oil and receiving blessing Blessing sealed Washing of faces and feet and partaking of the Lord's Supper It appears that baptisms for the dead may have also been performed here. I'm not sure if that was in the temple or in rivers. However, if the apostacy hadn't taken place leaving the temple defiled we can safely guess that they would have continued in a font in the temple.