livy111us

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Everything posted by livy111us

  1. I concur with what Paul [the former post] said about works. As recorded earlier, works mean nothing without Jesus Christ. However, I was a little confused about his own beliefs. Does he believe in faith alone for salvation?
  2. Have the Jehovah Witnesses been messing with my bible again? Mine doesn't go up to 2 Thess 4:3. ← Lol, 2 Thess. 4:3 is right between to 2 Jacob, and D/C 142. Good eye! The correct scripture is 1 Thess. 4:3
  3. I think C.S. Lewis said it best when he said 'which blade is more important in a pair of scissors?' they both work together to do the job. Same with salvation. You can't have faith and works seperate. Many people believe in just a belief only salvation. However, this belief didn't fully arise until Martin Luther (1483-1546). So we must ask, if this truly was the way to salvation, where was it for 1500 years? There are 2 options. One, there was an apostasy. Two, the doctrine did not exist until one and a half millenia later. I believe the latter is the best answer. Justin Martyr (100-165 A.D.), the great early Christian apologist said “And let those who are not found living as He taught, be understood to be no Christians, even though they profess with the lip the precepts of Christ; for not those who make profession, but those who do the works, shall be saved, according to His word: ‘Not every one who saith to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven...’And as to those who are not living pursuant to these His teachings, and are Christians only in name, we demand that all such be punished by you”. (Ante-Nicene Fathers 1:168, chap. 16, First Apology of Justin) From this and many more (including Irenaeus, Clement and others) that would be to lengthy to quote, show that salvation by just grace alone was non-existent, even in the post-Apostolic Church. We also must remember, to whom was Paul writing to in his epistles? Was it non-member pagans? No, of course not. He was writing to members of the Church who had been baptized, and were taught correct principles of the Gospel. But what was taught to non-members? We can find out in Acts 2:37-38. The Bible is also clear on the pre-requisites on salvation. It says that we are saved by: --Abstaining from fornication, idolatry, adultery, stealing, coveting, drinking, reviling, and extortion--1 Cor. 6:9-10 --Abstaining from fornication--2 Thess. 4:3 + Mat. 7:21 --Baptism-Mark 16:16, 1 Pet. 3:21, Heb. 6:2 + 1 Tim. 4:16 --Become as a little child--Mat. 18:3 --Belief-- Acts 16:31 --Belief and confession-- Rom. 10:9 --Belonging to His church--Acts 2:47 --Bring forth good fruit– Matthew 7:16-20 --Calling on the name of the Lord-- Rom. 10:13 + Acts 22:16 --Endure until the end--Mat. 24:13, Mat. 10:22, Mark 13:13, Rom. 2:6-8, Rev. 2:26, 2 Tim. 4:7-8 (notice the words fought, finished, and kept) --Engrafted word--James 1:21 --Faith-- 1 Pet. 1:5, Heb. 11:1, Rom. 8:24 --Faith and scriptures-- 2 Tim. 3:16 + Heb. 6:2 --Foolishness of preaching-- 1 Cor. 1:21 --Gospel--1 Cor. 15:1-2 --Grace-- Eph. 2:8 --Hope not seen-- Rom. 8:24 --Keeping the commandments-- 1 John 4:7,5:3, Mat. 19:17 --Know God and Christ--John 17:3 --Love of truth--2 Thes. 2:10 --Must be morally clean--Eph. 5:5 --Name of Christ-- Acts 4:12 --Obedience-- 2 Thess. 1:8, Heb. 5:9, 1 Pet. 4:17, 1 Tim. 4:16, John 17:3 +1 John 2:3 --Overcoming the world--Rev. 3:21 --Repentance-- 2 Cor. 7:10 --Washing of regeneration-- Titus 3:5 --Yourself and fear--Phil. 2:12 why? Heb. 4:1 I believe when we read all the salvation scriptures from the Bible, we can truly find out what we need to do in order to be saved. I don't want to seem to focused on works, because I'm not. I just want people to understand that it is not by faith alone. And on the other hand, it is not by works alone. James said that faith without works is dead. He would have been just as justified as saying that works without faith is dead. It doesn't' matter how much we do, without Christ, we would not be able to return to our father in heaven. [email protected]