livy111us

The Old Testament does not have the word "baptism"It does have words with similar meanings, such as "rachatz", translated as ‘wash’, which the Hebrew definition is a ‘moral cleansing’ (Isa. 1:16) also Isa. 48:1 (compare to 1 Nephi 20:1) and in John 1:25, the Pharisees talked about it as if they were expecting the Messiah to baptize, so it would have been a familiar ordinance in order to recognize it. See also Jer. 4:14, Ez. 36:25, Zech. 13:1, J.S.T. of Mat. 9:18-21. Also, the Pharisees performed a form of baptism called "miq-veh" in Hebrew, it was by immersion and cleansed sin. Christ refers to the "baptism of John" rather than simply to "baptism" (Matt 21:25) implying recognition of the concept by his hearers. This same language is repeated in Acts ("John's baptism -" Acts 19:3, also referred to as the "baptism of repentance.") We read in the legends of the Jews that 2 days prior to the Lords revelation at Mount Sinai the ordinance of baptism was imposed upon all the children of Israel. (The Legends of the Jews, 3:88) "According to rabbinical teachings, which dominated even during the existence of the [Jerusalem] Temple...baptism...was an absolutely necessary condition to be fulfilled by a proselyte to Judaism." (Jewish Encyclopedia, 2:499)

I've added it to my favorites. Thanks for posting this!

FAIR has a question answer email called "Ask the Apologist". You can email them here: Contacting FAIR I don't think you'll find much contemporary evidence of the Brass plates. They seem to have been a familial book as opposed to a book of scripture that was passed around for Prophets to write on. Remember, it contained the exact lineage of Lehi and his family. Here is some info I have on the subject: The Hebrew text of Isaiah 8:1 reads "take thee a great Gillayon and write on it..." The word "gillayon" as Dr. Adam Clarke points out, is a polished tablet of metal which prophecy was to be written on. "William J. Adams jr. informs us of Dr. Gabriel Barkays find at an excavation site in Jerusalem. The dig, which was begun in 1979, unearthed a tomb dated to about 600 B.C. Among the finds were two rolled-up strips of silver, unknown elsewhere in the archaeology of this period. These silver plates contain quotations from the book of Numbers, confirming that religious texts were engraved on precious metal plates in Lehi’s Jerusalem and thus showing that Lehi’s search for the plates of Laban and his own writings on precious metal plates are real possibilities." (FARMS Review of Books, 14:1-2, pg. 94) Since these discoveries were made, many of the criticisms of the gold plates ceased. But still occasionally you come across an ignorant anti-Mormon who still thinks that he can use this argument against the Church. But now that we have proof of other plates being found in stone boxes, it actually is something to prove the divine calling of Joseph Smith. (for more information see Dr. Franklin S. Harris Jr. discoveries found in the Instructor magazine in Oct. 1957) There have also been many stone boxes and plates found in the Americas, such as the Hackman stone box found in Texcoco, Mexico, the Carved Aztec box, and the Kulkulcan stone box found inside the Temple of Kulkulcan of Chichen Itza, Yucatan, Mexico, which matches Joseph Smith’s description of Moroni’s box to a "T". "On her deathbed, Alice Le Plongeon (wife of Augustus Le Plongeon) turned over to an intimate friend many of her husbands drawings and notes and evidently tried to tell the location of another spectacular discovery they claimed to have made and covered again in 1875–some underground rooms containing stone boxes holding perfectly preserved ancient records of the Maya." (Lost Tribes and Sunken Continents, Robert Wauchope, pg. 19) A man named William Bolsover wrote about his dealings with the Ispogogee Indians at Tuckabatchee, Alabama. He said that this tribe of priestly Indians had many brass and copper plates containing prophetic writings of their forefathers which were given them by the same diety they say we call God. (Edward King, viscount Kingsborough, Antiquities of Mexico, vol. 8 pg. 357-358, as cited in A Challenge to the Critics, Diane Wirth, pg. 43) In their book, America’s Ancient Civilizations, Hyatt and Ruth Verrill tell of a Maya book containing the complete history of their ancestors. This book is said to have been inscribed on gold plates. They write "According to tradition a complete history of the Maya was recorded in the Golden Book of the Mayas which, if it actually existed, as it probably did, was so carefully hidden to prevent it from falling into the hands of the Spaniards that it never has been found." (Americas Ancient Civilizations, pg. 23). We also have the copper scrolls found in the caves of Qumran which make up, in part, the Dead Sea Scrolls. I doubt that the format will transfer over, but an older source, from Mark Petersons "Those Gold Plates!" listed a few discoveries of writings on metal plates in ancient times. This list, of course, is outdated, but it is good starting point for metallic plates. Object or material Civilization Language and script Time Asia 1. Gold plate Javanese Javanese 2. Copper plate Javanese Kavi (old Javenese) up to A.D. 1473 3. Gold sheets Siam Siamese A.D. 1300-1500 4. Silver plates India Singhalese 5. Copper plates Harappa,Pakistan Indus Valley script 3rd Millenium B.C. 6. Many copper plates Pakistan, and India A.D. 324 7. Copper plate Gorakpur, India Indo-Aryan 4th century B.C. 8. Copper plate Kalawan, Pakistan 134 A.D 9. Silver scroll Pakistan 136 A.D. 10. Copper plate India Tamila characters middle 1st millenium A.D. 11. Gold plate Pali-maunggun 5th century A.D. 12. Copper plates India Grantha script 5th-7th century A.D. 13. Silver India Mixed Pali-Pyu 6th-7th century A.D. 14. 20 Gold leaves India Pyu 6th century A.D. 15. Gold plate India Pyu 16. Gold and Silver plates Iran old Persian, Babylonian, 518-515 B.C. and Elamite Europe 17. Plate Portugal 18. Lead, Bronze, Silver Spain Iberian 5th century B.C. 19. Plates Roman Latin 2nd century B.C. 20. Lead Italy Etruscan 6th century B.C. 21. Lead Italy Etruscan 3rd century B.C. 22. Gold Italy Etruscan 23. Bronze Italy Oscan 3rd century B.C. 24. Bronze Italy Oscan 2nd century B.C. 25. Bronze Italy Umbrian Earlier than 500 B.C. 26. Bronze Italy Latin, Greek, and Phoenicain 27. Bronze Italy Greek 4th century B.C. 28. Bronze Greece Greek 5th century B.C. Egypt 29. Gold Egyptian Hieroglyphics 3000 B.C. 30. Gold Egyptian Hieroglyphics 2800 B.C. 31. Gold Egyptian Hieroglyphics 2000-1788 B.C. 32. Lead Egypt Pseudo-hieroglyphic 33. Silver Egypt Egyptian 1254 B.C. 34. Silver and Gold Egypt Egyptian 1198-1167 B.C. 35. Metal Egyptian Demotic after 4th century B.C. 36. Gold Egypt Greek 242-222 B.C. Mesopotamia 37. Gold Sumerian 3rd millenium B.C. 38. Copper Sumerian 2900-2425 B.C. 39. Copper Sumerian Cuneiform 2900-2425 B.C. 40. Bronze Assur Hurrian Mid 3rd millenium B.C. 41. Bronze Lebanon Pseudo-heiroglyphic 2000-1800 B.C. 42. Gold and Silver Assyrian 883 B.C. 43. Gold Assyrian 858 B.C. 44. Bronze Assyrian 858 B.C. 45. Gold, Silver, Bronze Assyrian 722. B.C. 46. Bronze, Gold Assyrian 722 B.C. 47. Lead Mesopotamia Mandean 7th-8th century A.D. 48. Lead Assyrian Hittite 7th century B.C. 49. Silver Semitic Late Hittite 600 B.C. Palestine, and Arabia, Turkey 50. Bronze Galilee, Palestine Ugarit cuneiform 14th century B.C. 51. Copper Palestine Hebrew 12th century B.C. 52. Bronze Arabia Himyaritic 6th-7th century B.C. 53. Brass Palestine 2nd century B.C. 54. Copper scrolls Dead Sea Caves Hebrew Middle of 1st century B.C. 55. Gold and Silver Palestine Hebrew/Aramaic 200 A.D. 56. Silver Arabic 57. Copper Maghreb Arabic

Of course, anything by Bart Ehrman is good on this subject, but this paper is also very good: What Remains of the Old Testament? Its Text and Language in a Postmodern Age David J.A. Clines University of Sheffield http://www.shef.ac.uk/bibs/DJACcurrres/WhatRemains.pdf

FAIR has a question/answer page you can go to. They are a group of LDS scholars who mainly deal with apologetics, but also deal with other doctrinal questions as well. You can send in your question here: Contacting FAIR

Downplaying the King Follett Discourse - FAIRMormon This is a must read on the subject

1 Pet 3:19 19 By which also he went and apreached unto the bspirits in cprison; Luke 16:19-31 19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain abeggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the aangels into bAbraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in ahell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime areceivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great agulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have aMoses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the adead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they ahear not Moses and the bprophets, neither will they be cpersuaded, though one rose from the dead. Heb. 9:27--"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" 2 Tim 4:1--"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;" Rev. 20:12-13--"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Acts 2:31--"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." Rev. 6:11--"And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." And a few quotes from early Christians: "Do you dare to laugh at us when we speak of Gehenna, and fires that cannot be quenched...into which we have learned that souls are cast...They are cast in, and being annihilated, they pass away vainly in everlasting destruction. For theirs is an in-between state, as has been learned by Christs teaching." (Ante-Nicene Fathers 6:439-440, Arnobius, 305 AD, E) Tertullian wrote "Therefore, whatever amount of punishment or refreshment the soul tastes in Hades, in its prison or lodging, in the fire or in Abraham's bosom, it gives proof thereby of its own corporeality." (Tertullian, On the Soul 7, Ante-Nicene Fathers 3:187) In the book "Dialogue with Trypho the Jew", which was written in 155 A.D. by Justin the Martyr, a great teacher, who established a school for Christian philosophy, he gives an account of a conversation between an old man who set him on the path to Christianity, and himself. It says "Yet, I do not say that all souls will die; for that would be a God-send for the wicked. But what? The souls of the pious remain in some better place, the unjust and evil in a worse, awaiting the time of judgment." (Ante-Nicene Fathers 1:197) St. Irenaeus (120-202 A.D.), who was the Bishop of Lyons, wrote in 180 A.D. in his letter "Against Heresies" that "for since the Lord went away into the midst of the shadow of death where the souls of the dead were, and afterwards arose in the body, ...his disciples, on account of which the Lord underwent these things, will go away into the place allotted them by God. And there they will delay until the resurrection, waiting to be raised up..." (Ante-Nicene Fathers 1:560-561) To name a few....

Isaiah 5:2-6 tells us that why there needed to be an apostasy. The Lord is speaking in these verses in a parable, the vineyard being Israel. He says after He has done all he can to help the vineyard flourish by continually caring for it, it still brings forth wild grapes. So, He has only one choice, and that answer is found in verse 5-6: " And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down. And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it."

1 Peter 3:7--"Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered." This speaks about being "heirs together" with our husbands and wives. That would have to mean that they will not be separated at death. Isaiah:-65-19-25---It is speaking of conditions on the earth during paradisiacal glory. "And they shall build house and inhabit them {us} They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for trouble for they {us} are the seed of the blessed of the lord, and "their offspring with them". 1 Cor. 11:11-- "Neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." Mat. 19:4-6-- What God hath joined together, let no man put asunder. Also there is found in the Gospel of Philip, which is in the Nag Hammadi, an account of this. It talks about a "mirrored bridal chamber", which is the highest form of a saving ordinance, and to "those who have united in the bridal chamber will no longer be separated". And will be sealed "in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost". This is obviously a sealing in the temple. And was written sometime between 100-400 A.D. This should also help: Mormon Answers: Love, Dating, and Marriage for Mormons (Latter-day Saints) Mormon Answers: Love, Dating, and Marriage for Mormons (Latter-day Saints)

Here are some articles to read as well: Biblical inerrancy - FAIRMormon Biblical completeness - FAIRMormon Textual criticism - FAIRMormon

Here are some contradictions: John 3:13-No man hath ascended into heaven 2 Kings 2:11-Elijah went up into heaven Mat. 27:5-7-Judas hung himself. Acts 1:18-19- Judas fell down and his guts burst asunder. Gen. 6:6-7 -God repents. Rom. 11:29--God can’t repent. Acts 9:7--Men heard a voice but saw no man. Acts 22:9--Saw a light, but heard no voice. Exodus 24:9-11--Moses saw the God of Israel. Deuteronomy 4:12--Moses only heard a voice. John 3:22--Jesus baptized. John 4:2--Jesus didn’t baptize. 2 Chron. 22:2--Ahaziah 42 when he began to reign. 2 Kings 8:26--Ahaziah 22 when he began to reign. James 1:13--God tempts no man. Gen. 22:1--God tempted Abraham. 1 Chron. 21:1--Satan provokes David to number Israel. 2 Sam. 24:1-- God moved David to number Israel. Mat. 5:22--Whoever calls his brother a fool is in danger of hellfire. Luke 24:25--Christ calls Cleopas a fool. Rom. 3:23--No man is perfect. Job 1:1--Job is perfect. Luke 1:6--Zacharias and Elizabeth are perfect. Mat. 1:16--Jacob begat Joseph Luke 3:23--Heli begat Joseph Psalms 121:4--The Lord shall not sleep. Psalm 44:23--The Lord sleeps. Heb. 7:0--Abraham was Levis great grandfather and was dead before his father was born. How could he pay tithes to him? Acts 13:48--Can you gain eternal life and then believe in Christ? 1 John 4:2-3--A spirit of the devil will not testify Christ has come in the flesh. Mark 1:23-24--Demons testify of Christ. John 5:20-- God shows Christ all things that He does Matt. 24:36--No one knows when the second coming of Christ is, not the angels, or Christ himself, only God. Psalms 46:1--God is there in times of trouble. Psalms 10:1--God hides in times of trouble. Mat. 27:37--This is Jesus the king of the Jews. Mark 15:26--The king of the Jews. Luke 23:38--This is the king of the Jews. John 19:19--Jesus of Nazareth, the king of the Jews. Matthew 1:1-16--Differing genealogies of Christ Luke 3:23-38 Proverbs 8:17--Those that seek me early shall find me. Proverbs 1:28--They shall seek me early, but they shall not find me. Jer. 17:10--God searches the heart. Deut. 8:2--God tries to see whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no. Isa. 49:15--God will not forget. Gen. 8:1--God remembers Noah (meaning He must have forgot him) Num. 12:8--The similitude of the Lord shall he behold Deut. 4:12--Ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude. Isa. 14:5--I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God besides me. Gen. 1:26--And God said, let us make man in our own image. 1 Kings 4:26--Solomon had 40,000 stalls 2 Chron. 9:25--Solomon had 4,000 stalls John 5:31--If I bear witness of myself my record is not true John 8:14--Though I bear record of myself my record is true Acts 7:22-- Moses was mighty in words Ex. 4:10-- "I am slow of speech and of a slow tongue." 2 Sam. 24:9--800,000 men 1 Chron. 21:5--1,000,000 men 2 Kings 24:8--Jeoiachin was 18 years old when he began his reign and reigned for 3 months 2 Chron. 36:9--Jeoiachin was 8 years old when he began to reign and reigned 3 months and 10 days. 2 Sam. 8:4--700 horseman 1 Chron. 18:5--7000 horseman Gen. 6:20, 7:15--Fowls by two Gen. 7:3--Fowls by sevens 1 Kings 7:26--molten sea contains 2000 baths (a measurement of volume) 2 Chron. 4:5--molten sea contains 3000 baths Ex. 1:5--All the souls that came out of Jacob were 70 souls Acts 7:14--75 souls Gen 50:13--Jacob was buried in a cave in Machpelah's field that was bought from Ephron the Hittite Acts 7:15-16--Jacob was buried in a tomb at Shechem bought from the sons of Hamor Ex. 12:14--Passover an eternal covenant, (Gen. 17:13) circumcision an everlasting covenant Acts 15:1-11--no longer necessary Mat. 10:23--One translation states "you will not finish your work in all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes" Mat. 24:14--Gospel is to be preached to all the world before the end would come. Mat. 24:14--Jesus prophesied that after the Gospel was preached "in all the world" "the end would come" Col. 1:23--Paul said that the "gospel...was preached to every creature which is under heaven" Ex 12:40--The Hebrews dwelt in Egypt for 430 years. Acts 7:6--The Hebrews dwelt in Egypt for 400 years. Num 25:9--God's plague kills 24,000 1 Cor 10:8--God's plague kills 23,000 Solomon's reign. Acts 13:16-22 numbers the years from when the Hebrews left Egypt to David beginning his reign as 40 (Wilderness) + 450 (Judges) + 40 (Saul) = 530 years. According to 1 Chron 29:27, David reigned 40 years, so Solomon became king (when David died) 530 + 40 years (of David's reign) = 570 years. However, 1 Kings 6:1 states Solomon's 4th year of rule (when he began the Temple building) was 480 years after the Hebrews left Egypt, ie. he began his rule 476 years after the Hebrews left. Therefore there is a contradiction of (570 - 476) 94 years. 1 Sam 28:6--Saul inquired of God, but God did not answer him 1 Chron 10:13,14--Saul died because he did not seek guidance from God

What doesn't make sense to me is that this man was arrested for being married to more than one woman. But, if he was married to one, and having an affair with another, it would be perfectly legal and is almost the norm now. I'm against polygamy, but this seems rather hypocritical. Either make polygamy legal, or extra-marital affairs illegal.

Mesoamerican scholar Brant Gardner will be speaking soon in Orem on "Mesoamerica in the Book of Mormon Deepening our Understanding through Cultural Context". Let everyone know about this, Brant is an excellent speaker and very knowledgeable in both The Book of Mormon and Mesoamerican studies. Mesoamerica in the Book of Mormon Deepening our Understanding through Cultural Context Join us for a thought-provoking evening presented by Brant A. Gardner, Mesoamerican scholar and author of Second Witness: Analytical & Contextual Commentary on the Book of Mormon. Brother Gardner is a popular speaker whose knowledge and faithful insights have fascinated thousands.Date: Friday, December 5, 2008Time: 7:00 pmWho: Everyone interestedWhere: Sharon Park 5th Ward150 E. 600 North Orem, UT 84057 The presentation will be made in the chapel. Refreshments will be served after the presentation and a question and answer session. For further information, please contact Allen Wyatt (801-226-2398). Brant Gardner's academic background includes work towards an MA in Mesoamerican Ethnohistory as the State University of New York, Albany. He currently lives in Albuquerque, New Mexico. His published works on Mesoamerica include an analysis of classical Nahuatl kinship terminology, an ethnohistoric investigation into the identification of the use of Coxoh to designate a people and language in Southern Mexico, and an examination of the Aztec Legend of the Suns. He writing has been published in numerous venues, including FARMS and FAIR. His widely acclaimed six-volume commentary on the Book of Mormon is published by Kofford Books.

Here is every lecture that we were able to record from the recent SANE Symposium Temple Conference. You can see the outline here: http://www.rsc.byu.edu/comingSoonAntiqua.php What is the Chariot in Ezekiel- Bill Hamblin pt 1 pt 2 pt 3 Josephus and the Temple-David Seely pt 1 pt 2 pt 3 Expanded View of the Israelite Scapegoat-James Carroll pt 1 pt 2 pt 3 The Eleusinian Mysteries-Kieth Fairbanks pt 1 pt 2 The Samaritan Temple and Priesthood-Joseph Petramalos pt 1 pt 2 Ancient Southeast Asian Temples- Scott Preston Nibley pt 1 pt 2 The Two High Priesthoods? Evidence for Changes in the Priesthood From the First to the Second Temple- David Larsen pt 1 pt 2 pt 3 The Role of Scent in Ancient Israels Rituals- pt 1 pt2 pt 3 Apuleius Golden ***-Daniel McClellans pt 1 pt 2 pt 3 The Treatment of Temples in Platos writings-Bryan Benson pt 1 pt 2 pt 3 An Odor of Sanctity: The Egyptian Incense-Elliot Wise pt 1 pt 2 pt 3 The Role of Violent Rituals in the Egyptian Temple-Kerry Muhlestein and Alyssa Lewis pt 1 pt 2 pt 3 The Microcosmic Egyptian Temple-Doug Marsh pt 1 pt 2 Paradise and Messianic Imagery in Mosaics-Rachel Grover pt 1 pt 2 Chrisms in Early Christianity-Daniel Becerras pt 1 pt 2 Early Christian Prayer Circles- pt 1 pt 2 pt 3 The Ante-Nicene Mysteries and New Testament Sources-Andrew Miller pt 1 pt 2

Maria, Joseph Smith said that Masonry has the apostate endowment, or temple ceremony. This can be seen when one looks at early Christianity, Judaism, and the Bible itself. While I cannot go into specifics, I believe the Temple ceremony has NOTHING to do with masonry, and is an ancient practice that traces back thousands of years. Until you go to the Temple, it is difficult to make this point. Here are some interesting videos from a recent Temple Symposium that shows some ancient rituals performed by Christians: pt 1 pt2 pt 3 There will be some ground breaking work published on this topic this upcoming year. Again, our Temple ceremony did NOT come from masonry, so do not be worried about that. It is ancient, it is authentic. Here is another article: Early Christian and Jewish Rituals Related to Temple Practices As for becoming gods, this is another ancient doctrine believed by early Christians. They said such things like "For we cast blame upon Him, because we have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods." (Irenaeus Against Heresies 4:38, Ante-Nicene Fathers 1:522) The Lord has also promised us similar blessings as he did to Christ Jesus Christ Saints Crown Rev. 14:14 James 1:12, Rev. 2:10, 4:4, 10 White robe Mat. 17:2, Mark 9:3, Luke 9:29 Rev. 6:11, 7:9-14 Scepter Heb. 1:8 Rev. 2:26-27 Throne Rev. 3:21 Rev. 3:21 Heir of God Rom. 8:17 Rom. 8:14-21, Gal. 4:1-7 Son title Heb. 1:5, 5:5 John 3:1 Rom. 8:14, 16, John 1:12, Phil. 2:15, 2 Peter 1:4 1 John 3:1-2, Gal. 3:26 King and priest John 1:49, Heb. 3:1 Rev. 1:6, 5:10 Perfect Mat. 5:48 Mat. 5:48 One with God John 4:11, 17:20-21, 10:30 John 17:21-23 We are also told that we will be "partakers of the divine nature" 2 Peter 1:4. We are promised we will be of the same nature that God is in. You can read more here: Deification of man - FAIRMormon In the Dead Sea Scrolls on parchment QM 12.2 and 1QM 19, identify God as a "Glorious man" (Manoa, III, Four Powers in Heaven, 103-104) In Hosea 2:16, the Lord says His people will call him "Ishi". This is Hebrew for "man", or "male person". (see also Ex. 15:3) Also, is Jesus Christ God? Did he have a mortal body? Was He born? Live a life, eat, drink, sleep, etc...? Did He die? Does any of that take away from His Godhood? Of course not. So why should it take away from God the Father?

There was an excellent conference recently held at BYU called the SANE Symposium, or Students of the Ancient Near East Symposium. There were several scholars who spoke and shared many insights on Temples, ancient Temple worship, and other subjects. Here is a very interesting lecture on Christian Prayer Circles in Early Christianity. He made some very interesting parallels, and showed some very interesting paintings. I'd love to hear what you think about it: pt1 pt 2 pt 3

That is why I made sure to say that he was the most popular source instead of "the" source. Antis LOVE the first edition of Mormon Doctrine. Further printings have most of the controversial subjects removed.

The idea that blacks were neutral, or not valiant in the premortal life is 100% false. Here is a great article answering that question Blacks and the priesthood/Pre-existence - FAIRMormon The most popular source from this comes from McConkies "Mormon Doctrine", at least his first edition of that book. He was not an Apostle when this book was written, and could not be said it was written by an Apostle. The First Presidency was very disappointed in this book and actually told McConkie not to re-publish it because it was full of mistakes, this quote included. "We [the First Presidency of the Church] decided that Bruce R. McConkie’s book, ‘Mormon Doctrine’ recently published by Bookcraft Company, must not be re-published, as it is full of errors and misstatements, and it is most unfortunate that it has received such wide circulation. It is reported to us that Brother McConkie has made corrections to his book, and is now preparing another edition. We decided this morning that we do not want him to publish another edition." There are several letters found in the Archives which discuss the whole issue between the Church and McConkie. See here for more info: Mormon Doctrine (book) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I work as a full-time Firefighter as well as a part-time Firefighter at another station, and know what you are talking about. To tell you the truth, I think it is a gift not to dwell on bad situations. Some of them can haunt you. But one thing that I've learned is to separate FF life with home life. What you are doing, in my opinion, is the way it should be done. We need to keep our cool on scene, learn what we need to from the situation, and then forget about it. Otherwise, it can eat you up. Also, when I see some bad stuff, it doesn't bother me for a while, but eventually catches up with me. If you have a wife, you need to talk about it, or be debriefed at work. Just don't keep it in.

I've attached it. Hopefully it will work.

The term "stained with blood" could very well be allegorical, or it could be literal, we don't know. But, as you mention, I think that there were metal swords as well that were patterned after Labans sword, but that doesn't mean that they didn't make other weapons as well, such as the Macuahuitl. Please take a look at the ancient Mayan artwork of a man who is holding something that looks like a sword.

In regards to a few of your points, swords can be seen as both a Macuahuitl, or a wooden club with obsedian in it (just as sharp, if not sharper than a sword), or an actual sword (http://www.precolumbianwood.com/images/mayan.2.jpg). I think it can be argued that that when the BOM mentions swords being "Stained with blood", can only apply to something made of porous material such as wood. A metal sword could not be stained with blood. But I think that there are many passages which cannot be explained saying they are all Macuahuitls. But then again, there is some evidence of something closer to what we call a sword in Mesoamerica. This is a good example Board Message This is a Mayan holding something that looks very similar to a sword, with a handle and a curved blade. Here is some interesting information on the subject: farms.byu.edu/display/pdf.php?table=jbms&id=387 As for the white skin, I'd recommend reading this: http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php?filename=MTAxMjI3NjA4LTE1LTIucGRm&type=cmV2aWV3 Or watch the 5 part series of the same talk here I do find it interesting that in Daniel 11:35 it says something very similar: "And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed."

FAIR has done an excellent review of a popular theory out there, saying that DNA, Joseph Smith, etc... prove the BOM to have happened in North America. This is an EXTREMELY flawed argument. You can read the review, which is only an abbreviated version of what was actually written, here: Reviews of DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography

Dr. John Welch will be speaking at the Olivewood bookstore tonight on his latest publication "The Legal Cases in The Book of Mormon". He will be at 3330 N University Ave in Provo at 7:00 pm. You can contact Olivewood bookstore at 801-373-2787.

yes and no. On the surface, it doesn't seem so butf you read, or listen to Mathew Browns work, he makes some AMAZING comparisons between the two. I would recommend reading the book of Leviticus to get a base, and then begin to move onto some scholarly works on the subject. There are MANY of them. When you get to that point, I'll direct you if you'd like.