ryanh
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Posts posted by ryanh
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I really don't grasp why you might be so interested in 'member views' as opposed to what is actual doctrine. I would expect you could go to any denomination of any religion and find a variety of views and personal opinions that surrond what the official doctrine of that religion/denomination is. What's the point of doing that? To measure variability among members? What's doctrine is doctrine, and varying personal viewpoints are worth little.
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“According to the Desire of [Our] Hearts”
Elder Neal A. Maxwell Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
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The desire is of the 'natural man' part of us. This life is the time allotted to conquer the natural man.
If it’s illegal, if it’s not commanded, there is no use in looking at other cultures (or lustfully at other women for that matter).
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I think that could be misunderstood by some. I would just like to clarify that just because a divorce happens does not mean that all blessings of having entered into the ordinance are lost.Administratively, I don't know what the Family History Department's position would be.
But from a practical standpoint and answering the question of who-will-be-with-whom-in-the-eternities: A sealing is only valid if both parties keep their covenants. Here, the couple civilly divorced and in so doing (IMHO) broke their covenants to each other.
Whatever might remain on the Church's books for the short run, in reality there's no longer any "covenant" for that child to be grafted into.
Marriage in the Lord’s Way, Part OneElements of the Sealing Ordinance
Having already received your individual endowment and dressed in appropriate temple clothing, both of you will kneel on opposite sides of an altar in the sealing room and there you will receive good and proper counsel. Then, under the direction of the officiator—one of those few men on the earth upon whom the prophet of the Lord has authorized the sealing power to be conferred—you will participate in the ordinance of celestial marriage.
1. Individual covenants and blessings. Each of you will individually and separately make promises, commitments, and covenants with your Heavenly Father and will individually receive promises of blessings conditioned on your individual worthiness. The individual nature of these promises is such that even if one of you were to cease being obedient following your participation in the sealing ordinance and so lose the promises made to you, the other partner who remained faithful would continue to be eligible to receive the promised blessings.
2. Joint covenants and blessings. The two of you jointly will make promises, commitments, and covenants with your Heavenly Father and will make covenants to receive each other as husband and wife. You then will jointly receive promises of blessings conditioned upon your joint faithfulness. The continued faithful obedience of both of you is essential if the promised blessings are to be received jointly. This is because the promises are made to you as one—that is, as a single unit consisting of two halves.
3. Joining in celestial marriage. This element qualifies you to live together as husband and wife under the laws of the land. It is here that you are united forever, becoming one flesh before the Lord and forming a new family unit that, if you are faithful and obedient, will last forever.
4. Blessings for children born in the covenant. All children born to the two of you are born under the blessings of the sealing covenant; thus, it is common to say that your children are “born in the covenant.” They are entitled to blessings of the Abrahamic covenant, including:
a. The gospel
b. The priesthood
c. Celestial marriage
d. Eternal life (see Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed. [1966], 13).
It is revealing to know that even if the two of you cease to be faithful in keeping the covenants you make in the temple, these blessings will still flow to your children. It is equally comforting to know the Lord has provided that adopted children and children born to a couple before they are sealed in the temple (as with new converts to the Church) may be sealed to their parents, and upon such sealing they also become entitled to these same promises and blessings.
[emphasis added]
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I had the honor of attending one such sealing of a family that one of my missionary companions had baptized a year earlier. What a wonderful and spiritual event that was. As others have stated, yep, the kids are actually there at the alter with the parents as the family is all sealed together.Just wondering...
If we make a full conversion...assuming we have a temple recommend. (I'm thinking way far ahead of myself!)
How does my family get sealed together? In a temple but are the kids with us? Are children allowed in a temple?
Blessings.
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It may, and it may not be at that point. But start getting your documenation in place in case it ever does come to that, and you need the evidence to show that your rights were being trampled on by vindictive parents using the kids as pawns. The courts will likely very much frown upon that, and just may change the pysical custody arrangements for the benefit of the children.
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AND those that did not shake the babies. Per the latest understanding, it may have happened many hours before the child dies. With the misconception that it must have been the person present at time of death that did the shaking, there invariably are some (many?) that were wrongly accused and convicted even though they didn't shake the baby.
I once did some work on a SBS non-profit organization. The vindictiveness and aggression of the activists there always made me uncomfortable. I really liked the education and awareness campaigns, but the nature of how they approached prosecution support always bugged me. I think I understand a little better now why it bugged me.
Wrongful convictions really upset me.
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How is legal custody spelled out in your divorce decree? Do you two share legal custody (the right to make decisions regarding how the children are raised), or does she have sole legal custody? (note: I'm not asking about physical custody) If you have shared legal custody, you have rights to decide how they are raised, and I think you could make a stink in the legal system if their custodial parent, and her husband, are undermining your rights to have a say in how your children are raised. That might be something to look into to prevent further corruption of them. Oh, and check your state laws regarding recording phone conversations without the other party’s consent/knowledge. Documenting threats like what you recounted could go a very long way in defending yourself, your job, parental rights (or even getting sole custody), etc, etc. Seriously, such evidence could be extremely valuable.
One of my greatest fears for my two children that live with their mother is what future relationships she might enter into. I dread that I might ever face the dilemma and anguish you are dealing with.
Clearly, our Father in Heaven understands the feeling perfectly. He has it happen to Him continually as some of His children persuade others to rebel against Him. Seek out His guidance.
One quick quote that perhaps could provide some solace regarding your children:
Elder Niel A Maxwel stated in the Oct 1996 General Conference:
I fully believe that your children, should they fall, will be judged with greater mercy because of the stumbling blocks being placed in their path.God thus takes into merciful account not only our desires and our performance, but also the degrees of difficulty which our varied circumstances impose upon us.
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The two teachers/leaders is not just for the protection of the children. It is also for the protection of the teacher/leader. One false accusation or misunderstanding can ruin a person's life. It's happened before unfortunately.
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Right Ben. 3 years. The latest you could have filed the 2006 return was 10/15/2006, so, you may still have time to amend that return. Don't delay looking into it. I'm not familar with the fine nuances of when the 3 year mark is reached.
Want to return it? Who cares. If you made a mistake, amend it and they have to give it back. I hope you haven't waited too long to amend.
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I'm a CPA. I've completed more than my fair share of business and personal tax returns. And, yes, I do find our structure confusing and ridiculous. I HATE doing my own tax returns! The system, as it is right now, is clearly broken.Does anyone else find our income tax structure confusing, unfair and ridiculous?
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I am not aware of any LDS doctrinal teachings that would even suggest physical relations. Quite the contrary.
Read for yourself from the Book of Mormon:
1Nephi11:13-20 (note verse 20, where it notes in the vision that post-childbirth, she is called a virgin.)
13 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white.
14 And it came to pass that I saw the heavens open; and an angel came down and stood before me; and he said unto me: Nephi, what beholdest thou?
15 And I said unto him: A virgin, most beautiful and fair above all other virgins.
16 And he said unto me: Knowest thou the condescension of God?
17 And I said unto him: I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things.
18 And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.
19 And it came to pass that I beheld that she was carried away in the Spirit; and after she had been carried away in the Spirit for the space of a time the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!
20 And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms.
10 And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.
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Somebody seems to have an obsession with Romney and the potential for another presidential run.
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Happiness? What's that?
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Hemi, I too am just a little surprised that you appear to have taken exception to the warnings of Elder Oaks. I don't see any admonitions to not seek out hidden knowledge, or that having that as a 'hobby' as being a problem.
What I took away was simply a caution to be careful that such search of knowledge doesn't become a weakness. One way that could happen would be if it became an obsession. If one were to become too obsessed with obtaining of knowledge, the adversary could use that as an opportunity to begin leading the person astray. Obviously, that leading astray is not a given for those seeking knowledge, but it is a possibility if the desire is not kept in perspective.
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You and lots of other people josh. It just isn't right, and is sticking one's nose in business where it doesn't belong. To help, love, and serve is one thing. To think that 'forced' repentance is useful is just wrong.I just read this thread and I don´t like it all.
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Glad your surgery went well. My mother went in for lathroscopic GB surgery, but never woke up. Lost her to that surgery almost 13 years ago.
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Disney animated Robin Hood: "Who's driving this flying umbrella?"
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Newton: "Seen any aliens lately?"
K: "Son, you need professional help"
Girlfriend: "He's getting it. It's not working."
MIB II
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My home is open if you have a chance to stop for a get-together with folks here. I'm 1/2 hour north of SLC. Seriously, if you need a place to crash for a night, or a few days, I'm game.
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Oh yenni, I so feel for you. My dear sister, I hope that somehow you can understand that seeking help via medication is not weakness. I've been there, I've felt those concerns. From my current perspective, it is the adversary that plants these thoughts in our minds, hoping to keep us down and miserable like he is, and prevent us from being who we truly are and blessing our fellow brothers and sisters.
Seeking out the blessings and advancements in medical science that have been made possible by the Spirit being poured out on the earth is not weakness. Ponder your feelings towards someone that has diabetes, or someone else that has PCOS. Do you think of them as weak for seeking out medicine to make their lives more peaceable and successful? When pondering upon your mercy for others, contemplate why you don’t apply that same mercy to yourself. Chemical depression’s root is in physical imperfections in the brain. It’s not about strong or weak spirits or mental strength. It’s a physical flaw, like so many others, that limits our ability to function to our full capacity.
By chance did you see the article on Bipolar in the January Ensign? It’s a worthwhile read. Bipolar Disorder: My Lessons in Love, Hope, and Peace You might also seek out some of Alexander B. Morrison’s talks/books.
Wisegurl points out something quite helpful – many meds have generics available now, and they cost very little for a month’s supply. Oh how I wish they were so inexpensive back when I was so poor. Take advantage of it. I also really like Elphaba’s point that most county’s have mental health clinics that can be very helpful. Please seek out these resources!
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I want to go tonight, but doesn't look like I can make it.
Hey Pam, I found out yesterday that the receptionist at my work is in the choir too!
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Absolutely not, and I have not made enough posts for anyone to make that inference in soundness. This is the first time I have ever mentioned it on this forum. I have tried hard to reconcile with her, and that is what I believe would be best for both our sakes, but she won't have it. I can understand though why you would lash back like that. My post was not an easy one to read, I'm sure.You seem to look forward to finding someone new, thus I can see why the things I believe in do not sound right to you.
On the other hand, you have made numerous posts that make it very easy to see what happened in your situation. I understand how much you are hurting over all this, but what you are doing is not right. It is false healing. It is justification perpetuated by the one who would seek your destruction. You are falling prey to the very deceptions that you have warned others to watch out for!!!
I don't know if your husband has yet remarried and sought a cancellation of the sealing promise, but if he hasn't yet, it likely will happen. By clinging to false doctrine, and to your ex, you are not taking your opportunity in this life to work out your salvation, and ensure that you are part in the highest ordinance. That's not to be taken lightly. You really need to move on. And that is a position taken by the church in many words, and in deed.
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Pam and Beefche, don't get too hard on foreverafter. Reading between the lines of her posts, it is clear to me what happened, and how much she has been hurt by it. Yes, she needs to let go and move on, not make up justification to cling onto hope, but she's not there yet. That said, I agree, that declaring it as doctrine, not simply personal opinion, is misleading to those that don't otherwise understand the subject.
Foreverafter, my wife left 8 weeks ago, and is demanding a divorce over what *might* happen in the future. Yes, I could console myself that she must repent and come back to me, and that it was satan that whispered to her in the temple. It feels good doesn’t it? But it’s not the peace of the Holy Ghost. It is the consolation of the evil one. Giving into that self-righteous indignation is exactly what the adversary would want. He could then bind me there with those unrighteous thoughts of self-righteous indignation, keep me focused one idea of the gospel to the obscuring of all others (such as the fact that there IS AN ATONEMENT that will allow for rectifying of ALL the sins and ills of this life, including bad choices to leave a spouse, or that the sealing ordnance is a promise and ordnance, not the actual sealing), and effectively prevent me from seeking out a spouse with whom I can actually work together with to obtain a celestial marriage.
Don't you think it's time to start to let go, seek to live your life, and find a worthy mate for the eternities?
People get excommunicated for proclaiming false doctrine. Sharing an opinion is great. Contorting statements of, or misrepresenting what was said by general authorities is dangerous – to you and others.
Happiness? What's that? 
? Jesus' Virgin Birth
in Learn about The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints
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In talking with Lattelady outside of this thread, I finally understand what she wouldn't simply come out and state plainly. That she is intrepreting the quote above from President Benson - the bolded part "was sired" - to mean actual physical intercourse.
No wonder there is confusion as to what she is asking, or what contradictions she is speaking of. Then again perhaps I'm just clueless in not having understood "sire" = sex rather than "sire" representing the litteral son of God as is consitently taught.