volgadon
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Posts posted by volgadon
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Also Satlow is available online as well, could you cite specifically?
Try from p. 147 on.
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Skelton is right. I'll decease from derailing the thread.
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My apologies Voltron.
Just as long as Vox Populi is given proper credit for his statement, I'm fine with it.
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I don't think it was an atoning sacrifice... but an attempted sacrifice to false gods.
Oops, I completely misraed the title.
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I agree with Voldemort about the naming thing.
But I didn't say it, Vortex did.
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How is this an atoning sacrifice?
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You said "Palestinian Jews had a range of skin and eye colors, including light skin and blue eyes". I thought we were talking about Palestinian Jews? That's why I said ethno-religious.
How did voRT become voLGADON?
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That I know of no scholars who would support his assertion? How can I produce scholars to support the fact that I know of no scholars who support his position?
Shouldn't the responsibility be on his part to show that scholars support his position?
You should be able to provide a scholar who states that mixed marriages did not take place back then.
Failing any positive reference, you should at least mention some of the sources that lead you to believe that such was the case.
All in all, a very Nicodemean moment!
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I think it went something like this:
Brilliant!
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??? And you are saying that the Jewish community in Palestine intermarried this way with enough regularity that by 0 AD there were "Palestinian Jews [who] had a range of skin and eye colors, including light skin and blue eyes"? Please provide some evidence.
I don't know how common this was, but there were bound to be some like that. Also, it wasn't until the Rabbinic era, as Michael Satlow has shown, that the idea of marriage castes really took off. Tacitus indicates that Jews had a reputation for marrying non-Jews, and this can be supported to a certain extent from other sources.
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They certainly did, particularly after Alexander, but this has nothing to do with Palestinian Jews around 0 AD.
What happened to your assertion that it was, "considered highly inappropriate to marry outside of the ethno-religious group during the period in question."
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I do not think it is, but if you have some legitimate scholars who support your position I would be interested in seeing them.
Why don't you provide some references.
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Do you have any scholarship to support this position?
Sure, as a very quick reference, p. 28 of Shaye Cohen's "From the Maccabees to the Mishnah," notes that Greeks in Egypt frequently intermarried with the Egyptians, losing in the process much of their Greekness.
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I've been studying the Near East for a long time, it's part of my job, and I know of no legitimate scholar who would support your assertion. If you know of some scholarship that would support your claims I would be interested in seeing it.
Wow, how long has your scholarship been out of date?
I know you're being sarcastic, but you are correct, it would have been considered highly inappropriate to marry outside of the ethno-religious group during the period in question.
There are examples pointing to mixed marriages, such as Sidonians with Greeks and Idumeans. I even posted a picture of one of those families' fresco.
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This is not true. Some Palestinian Jews today might be fair haired and skinned , but this is a result of intermarriage over the past 2000 years.
In 0 AD this would not have occurred yet, and Jews would look like Semites of the day.
Just FYI.
Nonsense. Even among "Semites" there was a variety of physical types. Edomites and Moabites, for instance, stood out as being reddish. Even the Bible mentions intermarriage long before 0 AD.
Also, please look at the picture I posted of the Mt. Nebo mosaic. The artists clearly saw a difference between physical types and were able to portray different colours.
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Good point.
"As he thinketh in his heart, so is he."
I'd say "heart" refers to both our intellectual reasoning (thoughts) and the related emotions and spirituality (resonating/tuning in).
Spirit - can also be interpreted different ways...
1. Holy Spirit
2. One's spirit
3. One's general energy/how one tunes in - "spirits are either down or uplifted"
None of the OT scriptures actually relate it to emotions. Also, all the "mind" references in the OT of the KJV are actually "heart" in Hebrew.
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It is important to note that in the ancient Semitic idiom, the heart was the seat of thought.
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I appreciate you pointing this out.
Unfortunately, many have misinterpreted scriptures in the Book of Mormon to justify racial prejudice.
God is love & "no respector of persons."
If we want to become more god-like, we need to learn to see through spiritual eyes & not judge based on appearances. People tend to portray Jesus as they want to - in whatever way makes it easier to love him, but this might be cheating & not truly loving as God & Christ would.
Currently, there are diverse-looking people in the middle east and especially Israel, however this is after many years of interbreeding. Many in the US do not look Native American, even though their families have lived in the US for many generations.
"...Forensic anthropology uses cultural and archeological data as well as the physical and biological sciences to study different groups of people". Using these techniques along with forensics, some have put together a model of what would be a typical man in Jesus' place and time...
The Real Face Of Jesus - What Did Jesus Look Like? - Popular Mechanics
Personally, I think this reconstruction is not a very good one, to put it mildly. The reconstruction is a somewhat exaggerated stereotype, depicting Jesus with broad, bovine features, one wearing an expression of stupidity on his face.
Here are images closer to the times of Jesus showing a fair amount of diversity.
Mosaics from Sepphoris which was only several miles from Nazareth.
Note especially the figures from the synagogue mosaic.
Mosaic of Abaraham from the Beit-Alpha synagogue in the Jezreel Valley.
richard mcbee - Beit Alpha Mosaics of The Akeidah
Beit-Shean in the Jordan Valley.
http://cache.virtualtourist.com/4947736-Travel_Picture-Tel_Bet_Shean.jpg
King David from the synagogue at Meroth in Northern Galilee.
http://www.civilization.ca/cmc/exhibitions/civil/israel/images/dss721a.jpg
The burial caves at Tel Maresha in the Shephelah.
Madaba in Jordan.
Jerash in Jordan.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-h1L7IO_VOXM/TIUBoXTLH6I/AAAAAAAADZ4/kgSFKwO6fig/8-30-2010_006.JPG
http://yachtquovadis.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/DSC_6003.jpg
Mount Nebo in Jordan.
This one is particularly relevant because it shows not only that the ancients could depict very dark skin, but that it was found somewhat rarely in the region.
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/jordan/mount-nebo-photos/mosaic-floor2-cc-templar1307.jpg
The Jordan Archaeological Museum.
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Why not? I do.
She doesn't mean praising.
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I've read all the books but I've only seen the 1st movie.
I've got you all beat. I've read three pages and never seen any of the movies.
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You may be right.
But most of us here (myself included) have trouble comprehending a full government (not just a few people getting together) implementing socialism without making it required for the whole society.
I personally will need an example to help me wrap my head around the concept.
If one doesn't believe in armed takeovers, then a majority of society will have to agree. That is it.
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That is EXACTLY my point! In those cases, there IS a shared goal, ideal and moral code!
Without willingly supporting such, it is coercion.
Will socialism survive without it? I doubt it.
Can such a moral code come from the government? I doubt it.
I'm tired of people claiming that it isn't socialism, that socialism is force. Of course for socialism to succeed there has to be a shared goal, ideal and moral code
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volgadon,
I'm reviewing your posts in this thread. I haven't seen a clear definition of socialism that you've put forth. You mention the Jezreel Valley as an example, but not a definition.
I mentioned it as an example when you claimed that socialism doesn't encourage people to perform better. Jubilee of Settlement in the Emeq
The Pioneer Settlement Museum, Kibbutz Yifat, Gems in Israel, Israel Attractions
Jezreel Valley, work drying the swamps., VIA (Visual Information Access), Harvard University
These are a few, but most of the sources I could link to are in Hebrew.
What I am trying to say is that swamps covered about 30% of the Jezreel Valley. They bred mosquitos and prevented significant cultivation. The people who drained them were mainly socialist, who lived in hellish conditions and engaged in months, even years of back-breaking labour in pursuit of their ideal.
Vort put forth a definition from a dictionary. A dictionary to help us all come to an agreement of what socialism is.
Argument by dictionary, in essence, would constrain us to the very short dictionary definition. It, BTW, is a common tactic used by people to deny that we are Christian, by claiming that the dictionary defines us as polytheists.
Ironically, Vort's reference doesn't support what he was syaing.
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Pray tell how.
Because you are reading force into it. Force is not socialism. Force may be one of the means to bring about and enforce such a society (or any society), but not everyone believes that it should be employed.
The Contested Color of Christ
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted
You are right on this one. I was going off of memory. Happens some times.