justaname
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Posts posted by justaname
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I must be misunderstanding this thread. Are LDS members really accusing the leaders of the church, including those we sustain as prophets, seers, and revelators, of priestcraft as condemned in the Book of Mormon? Really? And because they have to pay for scriptures, laundry of temple clothing, books written by prophets, etc?
Either the church is true as organized or it isn't. Either the PROPHETS OF GOD are honest and have integrity or not. Either we sustain them or not.
To accuse them of priestcraft is murmuring against the Lord's chosen and anointed and is not sustaining them.
Oh please. Please tell me you arent taking this discussion this far! Really?? No one here is talking about priestcraft or murmuring. If a question is asked about the Lords annointed, are we immediately to be labeled as murmurers? Good heavens. Yes, you are misunderstanding the thread.
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I see what you are saying. Well, I hope you did not take my answer as trying to think your question is stupid because I truly don't think it is and yes, I agree that some of the replies you got were a little defensive (in my opinion) AND I also agree with your last comments, if you check some of my replies here you will see we think alike in that aspect.
However, I am curious as to what would be the ideal solution? What is your proposal? Would you like the Church to offer all these items for free, etc? Thanks for answering in advance.
I have no problem spending money on the low cost of church manuals, BOM's, and other books published such as Jesus the Christ etc. They do a wonderful job at making these texts available at a very low and fair price. If a book is being authored by someone we sustain as a prophet, seer and revelator, I would like to see these books offered at a similar low dollar price. Its not the cost that bothers me. Its the concept of these individuals profiting from their positions. As was compared earlier, this shouldnt be a market like Twilight and Harry Potter. Those books were penned for a dollar. I would be disappointed to hear that books authored by our leaders were written for the same purpose.
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Joseph F. Smith gave all the royalties of one his books to LDS Genealogical Society and LeGrand Richards didn't accept any royalties from one his famous books. The GA have the choice of giving it to charity, keep the money or simply reject it. We don't know what they do with their earnings, so it's a little unfair to speculate that the only possibility is that they are keeping it.
Everyone has the choice to keep their money or give to charity. I never raised the issue about what they are doing with their money. I raised the issue that it feels strange to me to profit from the gospel.
The responses of "if you dont like it, dont buy it" are useless. That comment contributes nothing to the issue at hand. As a long time member active member of the church, I completely understand my agency. And yes, I use my agency and choose not to purchase most of the items in question.
I wouldnt go as far to say that any of the responses to this issue have been hostile or inappropriate, I would say that there does seem to be a negative attitude about my question. The timing of this is quite interesting to me. Just recently, I had a long, LONG conversation with another member of the church about many sensitive church topics. My friend's biggest concern about the church was the fact that each time a question is asked about something that is borderline taboo, the response to the question is something like, "you just need more faith" or "thats not important to your salvation", or "you are not ready for that information yet". I am beginning to understand why my friend feels like this.
Thank you to those who chose to view my question as fair and made good attempts to answer them.
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But keep this in mind...artists don't make a lot of money.
Will someone please find a picture of Greg Olsen's, Del Parson's, or Liz Swindle's homes?
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Are you aware that Deseret Book is owned by Deseret Management Corporation which is owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?
In arguing whether people should market strictly to LDS perhaps the Church then should get out of the myriad of other businesses they are in as well. It's the business side to the Church.
Yes, I am aware.
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Margin, great response! I appreciate your views and insight into the topic. I appreciate the way you come across as genuine and non-combative. I notice that in many of your posts.
Im curious about the first portion of your response though, about us taking in over a billion a week. Can you corroborate your statement? I have held the finance clerk position in my ward and have always felt that church financial data is held strictly confidential. What is your source other than your own assumption?
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Judging by the size of President Monson's "mansion," I think you may be onto something!
I live in CT, I would love to have a Deseret book around here. Instead the best we have is the local Christian Bookstore where I can buy copies of "Kingdom of the Cults," and pamphlets on "why my religion is right and yours is wrong."
Cool link. Nice sarcasm. Do I think they are making money hand over fist? Not really. I also dont think the size of a home is always reflective of the income of a family either. My grandfather is a millionaire and lives in a tiny home from the 40's. My neighbor has a 5k sq ft. home and cant pay his bills.
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I am well aware that our leaders do their work on a voluntary basis. I understand that they give up their income to do so. Its pretty amazing that they are all willing to give up their careers for their callings.
I find it interesting that two of your responses both mentioned that the market was small, as if its not an issue because it IS small. Would you feel differently if it was in a large market?
Pam, if they are writing to provide uplifting information to the at large membership and not for profit, why not publish it through the church and make them as cheap as possible rather than use expensive publishers? Im sure the first answer to that question is because it would then be interpreted as scripture or as official church material. Ok, I get it. But how does one separate the words of a prophet publishing in the Ensign vs. publishing with a private publisher? Are the prophets' words cheapened because they are published by Seagull or another publisher?
I didnt grow up in Utah, though I do live here now. It wasnt until after my mission I moved here and saw what a crazy industry this is. I dont expect people to paint or sculpt for free. I dont think I really conveyed that message. I suppose all this stuff feels strange to me because it feels as though the products conjured up with the dollar in mind. It feels like every artist churns out as many pictures of Christ as possible, not because they were inspired by the image, but because they know that homegrown Mormons go nuts for that stuff. I can understand an artist being inspired by an image or two, but when their entire portfolio is marketed directly to the LDS folks, it feels too . . . manipulative? I dont know what word Im looking for. It just touches a nerve with me.
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I remember being on my mission in a poor area and coming across a HUGE Spanish style mansion. It was easily 7-8k sq. ft. whereas all the other homes in the area were 1k or less apartments or old, dilapidated homes. Come to find out, this large home was owned by the local minister. I suppose that was the first time it ever dawned on me that people get rich from religion. I have a real hard time with that concept. I used to think that stuff doesnt happen in our church, but little by little, Im recognizing the big money that is being made in our religion.
Each time I walk into a Seagull and Deseret Book, I feel a little bit bothered by how much money is being made by "selling the gospel". There are so many products that are sold to LDS members such as books, paintings, puzzles, scripture enhancers, figurines, sculptures etc. It just feels weird to think that people are using members of the church as a means to make money. I wanted to get some of your thoughts on a few thoughts about this stuff.
Lots of our apostles, seventy, RS, Primary and even the First Presidency write books. Obviously they arent doing it for free. They are making money as well as the publishers. First question is, are we to take these books as scripture? Second, am I the only one that feels strange about our leaders making a dollar on sales of their books? I know people that treat these books as "must haves" and buy them all. Yes, I believe in capitalism, but . . . it just doesnt sit right with me. Its hard to pinpoint. What are the motives behind writing these books? Are they attempting to make a dollar, supplement the scriptures, or are so pure that they are simply trying to make the world a better place?
There are others that are making money off of selling figurines of heroes of the scriptures. There are coloring books, Book of Mormon bingo, card games, Book of Mormon simplified books, stickers, etc. For some reason I have a hard time envisioning Captain Moroni even THINKING about marketing the Title of Liberty, or King Benjamin selling additional thoughts about his sermon, or Ammon selling little replica swords.
We have people that paint tons of pictures of Christ, images of the scriptures, or of prophets and church history scenes. We have sculptures too. Lots of them. Let me make this clear and say that I have no problem with people painting and sculpting inspiring images and figures. I know that everyone needs to make money and we all rely on our talents and abilities to feed our families. BUT, I HATE the idea of people using our faith and out seeking after good things as an easy way to profit.
Am I the only one that feels like this? Im also curious as to find out when our prophets started writing books for profit. Or do they? Im trying to be open minded about this stuff, so give me your .02! (See, even I am asking for your money!)
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Is it a case of either playing with your 4-year-old or playing with nobody?
No, he is actually a twin so he should have someone to play with all the time. We live in a nice neighborhood with several other young men his own age. Both boys (the twins) seem like they are socially behind though.
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Im glad this topic is getting some further discussion. It is sad that our society has given us reason to question a relationship between two people with significant age disparity. In regards to Elgama's posts, I dont think that there is any generalization here that every teenage boy is a sex offender. Yes, teenage boys are hormonally raging at that time in their lives, but I dont think anyone here instantly assumes that they are all molesters.
What originally started this topic, as Bini referenced, was an issue I have with my neighbors. They have a son (12) that constantly comes to our home wanting to play with my 4 year old boy. We allow our son to go outside and play, but keep a close eye on what is going on. With summer approaching and school getting out, I fear that this will become an every day thing. The question to me is WHY is a 12 year old wanting to play with a 4 year old? I remember being 12 and having lots of games in our neighborhood that involved a wide range of ages. Hide and seek, capture the flag, etc. Sometimes there would be a 15 year old, and maybe even down to a 7 year old playing. We had lots of fun and nothing strange ever happened. In that setting, it was much more fun having lots of people involved. However, when I was that age, I NEVER recalled even thinking going to someones home asking if their 4 year old could play. I cant help but assume that most 12 year olds, or young teenage boys have no interest in playing with a child that young. Now, is this kid molesting our son? I doubt it. We watch closely. But WHY isnt this kid seeking friendship with his peers?
I dont know if there is a rule of thumb that tells you when too old is too old, but to me this is too old. Id say within 3-4 years would be fine. Anything else would make me proceed with caution. But all that depends on the ages involved too. A 15 year old wanting to play with a 12 year old. Fine. An 8 year old wanting to play with a five year old. Weird, but Id be ok with it. A 21 year old boy coming over to see my 17 year old girl? Only if he wants to die.
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For one reason or another, our home has become kind of a local gathering site for some neighbor kids. Some of these kids come over on their own accord, but we also have several mothers that seem to take advantage of it by sending their kids over to our home.
The biggest issue we have is with one particular family. We dont socialize with them much, other then the occasional discussion outside or at church. Their kids show up at our doorstep all the time, knocking on the door and saying, "my mom said I could come play." Then they just march on in. Its strange, because all of their kids say the exact same thing when they show up. The problem gets a little more complicated than this. Two of their kids match up fairly well in age, so our kids like them coming over to play. Unfortunately, one of these kids is a nightmare and basically destroys our house every time he comes over, then sneaks out before my wife realizes that a mess has been made. We would rather this kid not come over, but he seems to follow his sister over when she plays with our daughter. Ok, it still gets a little more complicated. In this same family is a 12 year old that is very socially behind. He comes over, knocks on our door, tells us "my mom said I could come play" and asks to play with our 4 year old son. Im not really that comfortable with this. If we tell him that our son is busy, or give some other excuse, he just sits outside or in our backyard for almost an hour. Doing what? I have no idea. He just sits around. I feel bad for the kid because he seems to be a loner, but I dont want him playing with my 4 year old. I also would like to see him play with kids his own age because I think he will become socially acclimatized faster this way, but Im not his dad and dont think its my place to tell his parents this. So, how do we address these issues with the neighbor? I dont want to offend them, since I think they are kind of on the brink of inactivity, and no one else in the ward has their kids over to play. Am I making too big of deal about this or should I have a chat with the parents? If so, how to start a conversation like that?
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I think that sounds like good advice when it comes to the child support. I just wanted to make it clear that the letter of the law is quite simple. I think counseling with the bishop when it comes to paying on child support is a good plan.
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As a former Bishop with a MBA let me address both the letter and the spirit of the law:
The letter of the law is that tithing is something that needs to be paid once, not twice. A child receiving an allowance, a college student support by parents, etc. is not required to pay tithing on money received if the parents have already paid tithing.
I see two easy solutions:
1. The spouse paying the alimony can "deduct" it when computing gross income as strictly speaking it's not part of his increase.
2. The spouse receiving the alimony does not need to pay tithing if the money has already been tithed.
Now for the spirit of the law: Be as generous in calculating your tithing as you want the Lord to be in calculating your blessings.
Sorry bro, but you got this wrong.
It does not take a bishop, or a person with an MBA to understand the letter of the law. The letter of the law is quite simple. You pay a 10th of your increase. There is absolutely nothing that attempts to define what an increase is. Increase is easily defined as "more than you had before". That's it. If you went with your philosophy of whether or not money has been tithed before, then one could reason that eventually every dollar in the world would eventually be tithed and there would no longer be a reason to pay it, since someone else already had.
Its quite clear in the articles of faith that we are not responsible for Adam's transgressions. I think this AoF can also teach us that our fathers also do not absolve us from responsibility either. And that would include tithing.
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I have a friend who is an atheist and I asked him a similar question once. His response was that we (humans) are supposed to be good to one another because the world would be chaos otherwise. I asked him what it mattered if there was nothing after this life? He said the whole purpose was for us to make the most out of this life precisely because it is all we get. I asked again, why? What is the point if when it's over there is nothing. Once I'm dead, I will have no knowledge or recollection (according to him) of what transpired in life, so what does it matter what I do?
For that matter, since I will eventually be forgotten at some point after my death (since everyone I know will be dead eventually and supposedly won't have any memory or consciousness afterward either), what does it matter how I treat anyone else? What stops me from doing whatever I want, regardless of how it affects others? In fact, if I WANT to be remembered by generations (and hence gain some type of immortality), it is in my best interest to do as much as I can to make myself memorable to as many people as possible in as spectacular a way as possible, either for good or bad (i.e. Hitler, Queen Elizabeth I, etc.). Again, his response was that we have an obligation to ourselves and our fellow humans to be decent human citizens. Again I asked why? What does it matter if we're all going to be non-existent after our deaths anyway?
He and I went round and round like that for quite awhile and never were able to get each other to see things from the other's perspective. I do know that if I did not believe in a power higher than myself, I would end up doing a lot of things that would hurt others, as I tend to be quite selfish by nature and am always fighting that. My love for my Father in Heaven causes me to desire to be a better person.
How funny. . . this makes me wonder if we have the same friend. Our conversation was almost EXACTLY like that. I hate to admit it myself, but I can promise you I would not be the same person if I didnt believe in an afterlife. It is both the fear of a hell and the hope of a heaven that keeps me as close to the straight and narrow as I can.
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If an ice cold Coca-Cola existed in a forest with nobody around to drink it, would it still be good? I think so.
If an ice cold Coca-Cola existed in an arid desert with thousands of people aching for fluid, it would still taste like @#$%.
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It sounds to me that your friend is simply expressing his belief in relative morality. That is.. what is good to one culture may be evil to another. This can even be seen in our own cities.. among the LDS there is a firm no drug policy (they are 'evil') and yet among some circles drugs are encouraged and considered to even be enlightening.
The ideas of 'good and evil' are necessary structures for social life. Even among animals.. failure to follow a 'code' of sorts results in exile.
What makes an atheist tick? The same thing that makes you tick. Atheists have goals, loved ones, careers, highs and lows, etc. I've got to say that most atheists I know really live their life 'like it matters', they believe they only live once.. so they make the most of it. If you think about it.. is there any motivation outside of survival and pleasuring ones self? Religious people do good so that they may get something better one day.. Christianity in general is hardly selfless.
Im not aware of any species that exile a member for committing an evil act. Most evictions from their group are done to reduce competition amongst the males. I dont think that there is any awareness of good vs. evil, or code in the animal kingdom. Its strictly survival. (I admit Im not zoologist, but if anyone can prove me wrong, it would be a fascinating thing to learn about). I have a hard time believing that humans would behave any differently if we collective we had no knowledge or belief of a supreme being.
Of course Atheists have loved ones, careers, and goals. I dont see how that correlates to good vs. evil. Im interested in how they determine good vs. evil. I think the easy answer to that question is that they interpret good and evil based on their culture. The more difficult thing to answer is if they believe in things that are inherently evil or good. If an act is inherently good or evil, that would mean it transcends any cultural influence. So, what makes something inherently good or evil if there is no supreme being?
Also, the concept of living life like it matters because you only get one try, makes me think that one would be more prone to indulge in things that we god-fearing people would recognize as sin. Total speculation, I know.
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I just got done with an hour long conversation with a friend that is an atheist. I cant say I have ever talked with an atheist before, but I find their logic somewhat interesting. Not because it is compelling, but rather because it seems self defeating. Our conversation centered around the concept of good and evil. This individual wholly believes in good and in evil, yet feels that it is his right to determine which is which. Now I totally believe in free agency, but obviously dont feel that it is anyone's right to determine what is good and what is evil. If each person actually got to choose what is good and what is evil, what would the outcome of society be?
On to the next point. Is it an unfair assumption to conclude that because an individual recognizes good and evil, regardless of what they decide good is or isnt, doesnt the mere existence of good and evil prove that there is a higher power? Lets not look at this from an LDS perspective, or even a Christian perspective. How about we look at this collectively as believers in a supreme being. If there was no supreme being, is it possible to still have good an evil? If you say yes, what actually makes something good and something evil? Is it a culture, a person, or...what?
For any of you that may be an atheist, or have more knowledge of the concept than I do, help me understand what would motivate an atheist to do anything other than pleasure themselves? What do they have to live for and what keeps them from running amok in society?
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Sounds like you have your mind made up about the divorce thing. Nothing anyone in here can do about that. I just hope you guys both find someone else that can make you happy.
It sounds like you are still young and have your whole life in front of you. You obviously have dreams and ambitions. Its totally cool to have dreams, ambitions and goals. And Id recommend that you do anything you can to achieve them, as long as they are righteous! Im under the impression that many entrepreneurs are seeking wealth and financial freedom. We all want financial freedom, right? Nothing wrong with that. I hope to have it one day myself. But are you simply seeking wealth?
I KNEW what I was going to do since I was about 12 years old. I did all the right things to achieve my goal. I got the degree in the right field, built a good resume, added a useful foreign language, got in great physical shape, and kept my background clean. My patriarchal blessing even hints about what I should be doing. To make a long story short, I didnt get my dream job, and I have run out opportunities to do so. So now, Im working a 9-5er. Its not what I wanted to do "when I grew up", but its a job. There are days I dread another week here, and days that I watch the clock waiting to go home. I make about 75k a year, which is more than I would have made had I achieved my goals. As this has happened, I have come to realize that not everyone gets their dream job. Am I totally happy in my occupation? Nope, not at all. Do I want to do this for the rest of my life? Nope. But, I recognize that part of my role as a husband and father of 3 children is to provide for them. I might be miserable in my job for the next 20 years, but I have an amazing wife and awesome kids. I work to make them happy and to provide them an opportunity to achieve their dreams. I cant even imagine the stress I would endure hoping to make enough money to put food on the table or maintain a mortgage. Call me defeated or whatever, but my dreams are not to be temporally wealthy, but rather to have an eternal family. I absolutely will put my dreams and happiness as a very distant second to those of my family's.
Just my .02.
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haha Now where have I heard that before. Ohh maybe post #5...I appreciate the back up.
Actually, it was post #2 :)
And, I dont usually look at profiles to look at the gender. . .so my bad.
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She dated this guy, she showed him parts of her body, doesn't matter if he was arosed to it or not. She showed him something that she knows shouldn't have happened, otherwise she wouldn't be asking this question.
Wait, I must have missed something. Why are we assuming this is a female or that it was sent to a male, or if there was any dating involved? Not that any of this matters, but its interesting that all of this has been assumed.
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Do you really want someone else to tell you what to do, or do you want to take responsibility for your own repentance process?
Its interesting how many posts there are here about "should I go to the Bishop?". It seems to me that if someone is stewing about something enough to post a question about whether or not they should go, then they should probably go.
Maybe you should be more concerned about repenting than you are about someone finding out what you did.
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Hold as few meetings as possible, and when you do make them short and to the point. Meetings suck.
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You are right, I dont know you or your whole situation. I know exactly how much everyone else knows on here. Im not going to play psychotherapist and label anyone as codependent, or call someone emotionally abusive. With that limited knowledge, I recommended that you be empathetic to the situation, as you are wanting others to empathize with you. This woman is seeking advice from you, as you are seeking advice here. I had no intention of making you out to be the 'bad guy'. But you asked for thoughts, and I gave you mine. Some advice you get is good, some is bad. If you feel mine is bad, then throw it in the garbage.
The LDS Industry
in LDS Gospel Discussion
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Ive noticed you are a rather blunt individual. No worries, I am too. You obviously know I dont know the answer to that question. I never suggested I do know. I dont think you know either.