cougarfan

That is a very interesting quote. When I was a young man I was called on a mission and got all the information about what to bring and everything, then, about a week before I was to enter the MTC they changed my mission. They sent me to a different place. I always wondered about that one. I had to buy totally different stuff because the weather was so different in the two missions. I wonder if they do the changes the same way they do the callings. Of course this was before all the technology so it would have been a lot different.

No I'm just trying to help point out that there is a lot more to it than just the book of Mormon. I mean, some people never really click with the book of Mormon. If they do, fantastic! I always had a testimony of the first vision but the book of Mormon never really worked for me. I never got the answer to my prayers that some people do. I mean, I could lie about it and say I did, but I really didn't get an answer to my book of Mormon prayers. I wasn't trying to change topics, I think I clicked on the wrong button or something. It probably didn't make any sense.

No those are not problems. I've served a mission, have a temple recommend, am active in my callings, I've been in the bishopric too. I'm happily married and faithful to my wife. I attend all my meetings. BTW I've known plenty of people who claim they have a testimony of the book of Mormon who don't live moral lives, however. I wish I could have a strong testimony from the Holy Ghost but it just never happened no matter how hard I tried. Maybe some people just don't get one.

Wow you are giving me the courage to wear a cross. The last time I tried that I was really taken to task by my bishop and young men's leader. They felt like I was being so horrible for even thinking of wearing a cross. The last time I read the New Testament I read a verse that said that the cross would be foolishness to those who don't believe. Maybe we mormons are missing something in being so against the cross.

I don't know how to answer that one. You are talking to someone who has been a member of the church for over 40 years, has read the book of Mormon probably 20 plus times cover to cover and never received a spiritual confirmation from the Lord that it is true. I pretty much feel the same feeling when I read it as when I read the bible, Quran, Bhagavad Gita, and other religious texts. I'm probably the only member of the church who has read it and prayed about it hundreds of times and never got a confirmation that it is a true book that came from golden plates that were translated by Joseph Smith. I feel bad about that. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Yes, religion has done a lot of harm too. The inquisition, 9/11, Mountain meadows...

Yes that is a big part of it. Also, is the Book of Abraham true? Is the Book of Moses true? Those were also made scripture. And was he really visited by God, Jesus, Peter, James, John, etc.

Maybe Peter and James came down in a pillar of light and John arrived by horseback.

I'm sure you would get a lot of different answers from a lot of different people on that one. The LDS church has done a lot of good in the world, but I wish they would publish how much they spend with our tithing money and where it goes. Other churches do that. Then we could see how much good is being done. Our leaders are accused of only spending a tiny portion of tithes on charitable purposes and spending most of it on investments, BYU, Zion place mall, etc. I'm not sure what they are afraid of, anyway, I know the Catholic church believes they did a lot to help and civilize humanity over hundreds of years. The Muslims believe that Muhammad took a heathen continent and turned it into a whole continent or region of religious believers. Before Mohammad it was a very degenerate region, after he came along, no alcohol, very little promisuity, etc. It is hard to say which "church" has done the most good for mankind.

The only problem with basing everything on a spiritual confirmation is that it is so subjective. I mean, would you take a test in school and base your answers on your feelings as opposed to study? There also has to be solid evidence. I know a number of Muslims. They believe the Quran is true. I asked them how can I know if it is true. They told me that Allah would let me know if it was true if I read it and prayed to Allah. So what is the difference? You still need solid evidence to back something up. Good feelings are not enough in my humble opinion.

Interesting. Except for one problem. I was reading the Book of Commandments recently (which is what the church used before the D&C) and I don't really see the priesthood as we understand it today. The church Joseph Smith founded in 1830 didn't have priesthood offices and such. That seems to have come later after Sidney Rigdon came along about 1833. Am I mistaken on that?