Aristotle

During the past 3 yrs., I have lost both my parents and my aunt. I, too, must agree with this law, just as I would support the legalization of marijuana for medical purposes. - Mrs. A

Are you referring to me as Ari? Sorry, but my nickname is Mrs. A, and my husband is Aristotle...or Aris from Paris. ;-) If you would care to challenge Sister McConkie yourself (providing it is the same sister who addressed our meeting), do a search on the internet under "Margaret McConkie Pope". The sister who addressed our Relief Society meeting was probably in her 50's at the time, and this was sometime during the past 20 yrs. that she spoke at our meeting. So she may be elderly, but I sent an email nevertheless. (Her phone number was non-published.)

Some polygamists sexually molest minors; some homosexuals sexually recruit young boys. Both lifestyles are practiced in open rebellion to God. - Mrs. A

This morning, I've been doing some research in regard to the story that Bruce McConkie's sister told in our stake Relief Society meeting. I believe this sister's name is Margaret McConkie Pope. I'm in the process of trying to reach this sister to verify this information. Until I receive confirmation, I will refer to her as Sister McConkie. As I recall, Gracia Jones was also mentioned at this stake meeting. I found several websites which referred to Emma "kicking Eliza down the stairs", but have yet to find anything in this regard on the Church's official website. My hope is to substantiate this information from Sister McConkie and find out her source. One thing is very evident. Why would a woman of such caliber, well respected in the Church, one who is sought as a speaker in the Church, risk her reputation by giving a ficticious account of Emma's life? The following is an excerpt by Gracia Jones (re: http://www.lds.org). I emphasize Gracia's statement that "Emma suffered deeply hurt feelings because of it [plural marriage]". - Mrs. A My Great-Great-Grandmother, Emma Hale Smith By Gracia N. Jones ...I discovered there was a different attitude about Emma. One day, when I was in a Relief Society room, I happened to notice a picture of a dark-haired woman. Curious, I moved closer. On the nameplate I read the inscription: “Emma Hale Smith—Elect Lady—First President of the Relief Society.” Fascinated to see at last a picture of my great-great-grandmother, I thought, How beautiful she is! Feelings of love for her filled me. But my thoughts were interrupted when someone behind me said, “My husband says they ought to take that woman’s picture off the wall of the church.” Stunned by the tone as much as by the words, I was troubled and wondered what prompted this judgment of Emma. Later, while reading the book History of the Prophet Joseph Smith by His Mother, I found Lucy Mack Smith’s tribute to Emma: “I have never seen a woman in my life, who would endure every species of fatigue and hardship, from month to month, and from year to year, with that unflinching courage, zeal, and patience, which she has ever done; for I know that which she has had to endure—she has been tossed upon the ocean of uncertainty—she has breasted the storms of persecution, and buffeted the rage of men and devils, which would have borne down almost any other woman.” I was struck forcibly by the contrast between the loving words of one who knew her and the judgment of one who did not. Her great trial came when the prophet revealed to Emma that they would be required to live the ancient law of Abraham—plural marriage. Emma suffered deeply hurt feelings because of it. While she agreed with this doctrine at times, at other times she opposed it. Years later, Emma is purported to have denied that any such doctrine was ever introduced by her husband. In later years, Emma apparently never spoke of the sacred ordinances they had received. She would have been under covenant not to do so. Careful and prayerful study was essential to my understanding that Joseph received true authority from the Lord and that there were those who tried to misuse authority, or take authority upon themselves in respect to this matter. In D&C 132:45, the Lord said, “For I have conferred upon you [Joseph] the keys and power of the priesthood, wherein I restore all things.” On 5 October 1843, the Prophet gave instructions “to try those persons who were preaching, teaching, or practicing the doctrine of plurality of wives; for, according to the law, I hold the keys of this power in the last days; for there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom the power and its keys are conferred; and I have constantly said no man shall have but one wife at a time, unless the Lord directs otherwise.” 15 This point is confirmed in the Book of Mormon, Jacob 2:27, where we read, “There shall not any man among you have save it be one wife.” But in verse 30, we read, “If I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.” [Jacob 2:30] Both the truth of scripture and the source of conflicting opinions was clear to me. I concluded that if Joseph was a prophet, and I knew that he was, then the doctrines he revealed were true and that succeeding prophets have also been given authority according to their times. Hence, I knew that in 1890, Wilford Woodruff was inspired, as prophet, seer, and revelator, to issue the Manifesto ending the practice of plural marriage in the Church.

This is a sensitive subject, but under The United Order, will polygamy be practiced?

If people were perfect, it would work! That's true... Communism (under satan) is the opposite extreme of The United Order (under Jesus)...not to be confused with the New World Order (as per "read my lips" George Bush Sr.), or "one world government" (re socialism/communism).

Winnie, I met my husband, Aristotle, at a stake fireside. Eleven days later, we eloped to the Temple. We have been married for over 20 yrs now. I would venture to say that many who correspond via email or in chatrooms, know one another better than my husband and I did when we got married. ;-) With that said, I would add that if I were serious about someone on the internet and planned to meet--even in an LDS forum--I would first hire a P.I. to have him investigated. - Mrs. A

We are big fans of Survivor. One episode, a homosexual nudist named Richard won. (This gave new meaning to the term "survivor", as his fellow campers watched him parade around the camp nude. LOL) I understand Richard is in trouble with the IRS for not paying taxes due on the million he won from the show. What he claimed to do with the money was to invest it in some sort of a charity for boys. When I last saw him interviewed, he had a young man with him who he claimed to be his adopted son.

The official website to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is: http://www.lds.org You can search for the topics you're interested in.

Edited by Aristotle

Polygamist colonies, headed up by cultist Jeffs (who has now fled to Mexico), have been established in AZ/Utah/TX. Evidence has shown how minor girls are married to middle aged men, raped and impregnated. Pres. Hinckley addresses this problem in the following article: What is the Church’s position on polygamy? Gordon B. Hinckley, “What Are People Asking about Us?” Ensign, Nov. 1998, 70 "We are faced these days with many newspaper articles on this subject. This has arisen out of a case of alleged child abuse on the part of some of those practicing plural marriage. I wish to state categorically that this Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. Most of them have never been members. They are in violation of the civil law. They know they are in violation of the law. They are subject to its penalties. The Church, of course, has no jurisdiction whatever in this matter. If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church. An article of our faith is binding upon us. It states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law” (A of F 1:12). One cannot obey the law and disobey the law at the same time. There is no such thing as a “Mormon Fundamentalist.” It is a contradiction to use the two words together. More than a century ago God clearly revealed unto His prophet Wilford Woodruff that the practice of plural marriage should be discontinued, which means that it is now against the law of God. Even in countries where civil or religious law allows polygamy, the Church teaches that marriage must be monogamous and does not accept into its membership those practicing plural marriage." Please note: If polygamy is against the law of God, it is immoral. The Church teaches that marriage must be monogamous; therefore, if one practices polygamy, they are excommunicated. Members are excommunicated due to immorality. You're right...in fact, the U.N. buried the WMD that they confiscated.

According to Webster's, hearsay means "that which one has been told but has not directly experienced". Since I directly experienced hearing Bruce McConkie's sister address this subject in a stake Relief Society meeting, it is not hearsay. Whatever information Bruce McConkie's sister quoted from is not known; nor do I know from what source Outshined has gathered his/her information to counter Bruce McConkie's sister's information. It would seem to me that unless either argument is documented officially by the Church, both stories presented by Outshined and Bruce McConkie's sister are based solely upon hearsay evidence, since those in question are dead and unable to verify either argument. The fact that I heard this information in a stake meeting is undisputable based upon personal testimony, not upon hearsay or gossip. It isn't my style to attacked anyone; I merely responded to a post on polygamy. No they didn't. That's the problem. And if you have any evidence to the contrary, i'd love to hear/see it. You'll have to do some research into AOL's archives. I read it on AOL news online about a year after the the war in Iraq started. I love math questions Aristotle. Would the answer be "Hitlery Clinton"? LOL... good one! ^5, Fiannan

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A blaming statement...and again, unfounded. My concensus is that you have no official Church documentation. It would be very appropriate to counter a rumor by providing official Church documention to the contrary, which is why I challenged you to produce it. (BTW, you have spread a rumor in this forum about me being a gossip.) What you refer to as "unfounded statements" is an expression of an opinion; an observation. Therefore, it requires no proof. Many people share stories told from the pulpit at Church...that doesn't make them a gossip any more than it makes me a gossip. If you have a problem with this story, put the blame where it lies, and take it up with Bruce McConkie's sister. The definitions I found are officially from Webster's Dictionary and used in the correct context. I don't make noise, I make sense. The topic is polygamy. Relating a story that Bruce McConkie's sister related in regard to Emma and Eliza is cental to this issue in regard to how the sisters in the Church feel (and have felt) about polygamy. If this story is false, I have seen nothing to counter it...not from the pulpit, and not from you. If Bruce McConkie's sister is guilty of telling falsehoods in Church, nothing was said in my stake in that regard, to correct any of the information she gave. Reported for what? Have you been falsely accused of being a polygamist? And by who?

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By their fruit ye shall know them. Neither empty...nor conjecture. Prove that "Not one of my statements has been unfounded, as yours have" by providing official church documentation. Otherwise, don't falsely accuse me of being a gossip, since my statements are based upon quoting a speaker of the Relief Society. And I am not held liable for what is said in a Church meeting. An assertion is a positive statement--positive means leaving no doubt; unfounded means having no foundation; therefore, it is a contradiciton, or an oxymoron. Is your statement, "And yes, so far, no member here has advocated polygamy" an official statement representing LDSTalk? Do you consider all people who answer posts as having a hang up? Why, am I in impending danger?

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Edited by Aristotle

My opinion, as presented, is totally accurate. (Again, with the eye rolling...soon you'll be wearing corrective lenses!) Don't hit your head against the wall! You stand behind [your] unfounded statement based upon false accusations intended to malign witnesses to the fact. "Unfounded assertion" is an oxymoron. Do you speak for everyone in this forum: "we've yet to meet him"? It is not on my behalf, as I am not a proponent of polygamy. What accusations should I be careful of that you made about other members being "polygamist minded"?

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Edited by Aristotle

More like it's about someone trying to justify spreading unverified stories that malign those who are no longer alive to defend themselves. And if there is a "polygamist-minded man" on LDS Talk, we've yet to meet him. More unfounded assertions... No, it's exactly as I stated. :-)

These threads are inter-related. Polygamist minded-men have a problem with nonpolygamist minded-women. Men fantasize about being with more than one woman simultaneously. Polygamy would feed right into this fantasy. Polygamists marry minors; homosexuals recruit minors. If polygamy were legalized, homosexuals would lobby for the right to have more than one "same-sex partner" [minors]. What is underneath the debate over Emma Smith/Eliza Snow has nothing to do with proving or disproving the validity of the story. It is about polygamist minded-men feeling threatened by non [anti] polygamist minded women.

1 multiple personality disorder + 1 fire breathing dragon = ?

Edited by Aristotle