flyswatguy

Light is the only constant in the universe , for instance if you were to travel at the speed of light , light will still go past you at the speed of light . Time however might start going backwards . The glory of God is personal to him and light is non personal , if light is personal to god then so is everything else . I,m sure there are plenty of scriptures which state that all things are personal to god , thereby everything that exists consists of Gods glory , intelligence however acts independantly of god , being God in embryo ....

you sound like you really belong in the old testament and your views on womanhood are derogatory and biased . i am sorry to hear you were a zone leader because with those attitudes you certainly should not have been . after four years of being ignored by male missionaries , i was surprised when attending a ward xmas party a nice sist missionarie called sist ashcroft came over and asked me if i needed anything to eat , i spent some time speaking with her and made an instant freindship , suddenly all the bitterness i felt about the mormon church began to disapear , i watched her going about the room busily doing everything she could to help people and admired her strength and obvious sincerity . as a disafected member i seem to have a better apreciation of sister missionaries than you do , they certainly have my vote .....

and yet the universe is indeed created out of nothing . there is nothing to prove steve hawkins idea correct , that god must obey the same laws of pyhsics we do . it may be that god can make he laws of physics do whatever he likes . therefor he might indeed be able to walk on water . or heal a blind person . as we as barbaric mutated chimps manipulate the laws of physics to do all sorts of wonderfull things . how much more could a being with infinite intelligence be the cause of unexsplainable miracles . the laws of physics are not god but rather a tool in his hands , he minipulates them to create a world where intelligent beings make choices between good and evil. I do not believe any other reason for existence will ever be found . if you can think of any other reason i would like to hear it

It means that what is written in scripture as pertaining to the nature of god , the creation of the universe or even the real history of the planet we live on is limited . If were to ask you to tell me any physical value of what heaven is such as is their a sun or does it rain , as people live forever what age are they at . you cannot answer these question niether can anybody else . so its all about faith . but faith increases rapidly with knowlege and decreases with the absence of it . so if you limit your faith to that which only has been written in primitive cultures which includes 1830 usa you are extremly limited in your faith as to what heaven might actually be . Joseph Smith himself said that this was a day and age when all things would be revealed . this was actually a true prophecy . however the great majority of things which have been revealed since 1830 have been scientific . alltho science may at times may challenge biblical beliefs it is well on course to revealing the true nature of the universe and the god who operates within it ( in my view at least , i do not believe in a accidental universe ) The true god of the universe will only be revealed when all the principals of physics which govern this dimension and all other dimensions attached to it are known . until this time their is limited understanding of god and the world we live in . by making the scriptures your only source of knowlege and faith you will be limiting yourself to a world which has long since passed . the true nature of joseph smiths religion was to believe in the living word of christ which was to be as the missisipi river , an unstopable torrent of knowledge . how does this compare to what the church has become today and how much of the meetings are about obtaining true knowledge . How much of brigham youngs statement that we believe in all truth is present today as meetings now revolve around dogmatic proceedures and most people are afraid to wisper any different feeling or thought they may have . well by now your probably wishing you had never asked rant rant , anyway hope i have exsplained myself ok

The last time the human race was reduced to a handfull of people was 70,000 years ago according to genetic scientists . however creatures have an evolutionary past dating back millions of years , even 70,000 years isn,t enough to get kangeroos in australia and polar bears in the artic , if you really want to have a faith in God thats real your going to have to exspand your mind a lot further than what exists in scripture .

If you look at how i wrote what i did i pointed out that believers can have just as many problems as people who are non believers .i Have passed through long periods of being an atheist myself , in many ways i found myself becoming a better person less judgemental of others and far more accepting of people with problems ,in other ways i felt lost and empty as i struggled with living in a world that had no eternal meaning . moraly atheists can be as good and in many cases better than people who proffess strong beliefs . thanx for teaching me how to spell annihilation , quite a big word .....:)

yes , extreme anger and hate is a better description than weeping and wailing . they hate hymns because hymns give people hope and feelings of sanctity , feelings they can never have themselves as these feelings only come with living correct principles . there are intelligent beings all around us both evil and good . correct principles allow for intelligence to prosper succeed and to build better and better comunities . Intelligence without principles becomes dark confused hopeless . its really the same as the world we now live in . the city survives only because of the good intelligence in it . take those people away and you have anarchy murder and mayhem . when anarchy rules you may know that the end is near , evil can only breed on the back of good , much like a virus , it needs a host . evil in itself cannot build a kingdom , the very nature of what it is means constant chaos . understanding the principles that govern what becomes evil and what becomes good leaves a brightly illumned path if your interested in building an eternal kingdom that lasts . Thats another good point , your about the business of building your own eternal kingdom by taking upon yourself correct principles , your going to be living in a world of your own creation , this is going to be a perfect judgement . you may find yourself in a valley of abundant life or in a dreary plain . whatever it is its a place of your own creation , everything you are , everything you have done , more information has been downloading itself into your subconscious than you could ever realize. when you die you will enter into the world of your own subconcious which world is the eternal part of you . there you will find a perfect judgement of who and what you have been , you will also be able to communicate with other beings who are on the same wave length as you . the atonement may allow for deliverance from difficult circumstances from which you yourself have not power to remove yourself . you will look back on your life and learn from every moment , even the saddest darkest moments will teach you and the pain will deepen your humilty . this subconscious world is with you all the time , it was never born and does not die . you may find your self re attaching to your eternal world which has many more experiences in it than your are now capable of understanding . when the spirit speaks to you it is speaking from your subconcious eternal world . from an alternate dimension in which you constantly co exist . the electrons in your body are constantly jumping in and out of several dimensions , information is moving in and out like the tides of the sea . time does not exist in the subconscious world of which you and i are both a part , you may dream things which are of the future or the past . there is a mechanical process at work and its very very real , you do not have to die to begin to discover your own eternal world , its possible to travel into the realms of your own eternal soul and realize that you are a being of purpose and meaning . Because of the materialism covering the earth the ability to do these things has been greatly lessened . atheism traps the soul into the three dimensional world of pain suffering and hoplesness , the heavens become dark and heavy , no other possibility can exstend itself other than the possibility of total anialation . therfor those that reject faith on the grounds that it is without scientifc reality soon find themselves treading in heavy water and at certain points drowning in a sea of despair . people with a heavy negative view of God may also find themselves living in a world of guilt and anxiety , no amount of trying seem to relieve the distress as God has become a legalistic monster . It really comes down to seeing your own soul in a positive and happy light . these are just my own personal beliefs and do not represent anything elses other than that . hopefully somebody out there will gain something from it and writing all this will not have been a complete waste of my time ....

I would be surprised if satan could weep as weeping shows emotional sorrow , something demons are not capable of feeling . If you knew anything about demons you would know that the only emotion they are capable of is extreme hate . in times when all good departs and the devils hour has come , perhaps in times of war or other such moments you will find continual murder hate and revenge , their is no charity , no sorrow , no guilt , no wish for anything good, no love for children . not all wars are fought like this but only wars where the devils spirit has taken over . such wars are found to be quite prominent in the book of mormon . in moari wars between various tribes women would be abused , men enslaved or killed , little children beaten to soften up in preparation to be eaten . Theres nothing romantic or mystical about the real nature of evil . when i joined the church as a 23 year old i fasted and prayed for three days in the hope of having some kind of spiritual experience at my baptism . when nothing happened i was somewhat disapointed . A few weeks later however i was lying in bed quietly reading before going to sleep , it was a peacefull night , nothing out of the odinary was happening , I looked up from my book and found the face of a young man staring at me , His hair was black and matted , unkept and his face had a look of anger , there was no body , just the head , i was wide awake and this was not a dream . As i looked upon him i felt extreme fear , his face drew back from me into the corner where the ceiling meets the walls , the face grew larger and larger as it went back , along with growing larger the expression of hate and torment grew stronger and stronger until it was a twisted specter of total hate and anguish . this all happened in a few split seconds and i went from calmly reading my book to being greatly afraid . for some time i was afraid to sleep alone in my room and would not stay there unless my brother who shared the room with me was home . At night i would gently hum the church hymns to myself to gain assurance . one night i was dreaming a vivid dream and could hear the sound of this beautifull chior singing , i was greatly enjoying the sounds thereof when suddenly there was a loud voice screaming shut up , the singing stopped and all was quiet . On another night i found myself being taken out of my body and traveling through the air , i met a lady with dark curly hair , a flat nose and children all around her , a few weeks later i met my wife who fits this exact description , we later married and had five children , now we have 7 grandchildren as well . these things all happened within the first few months of my baptism , then it stopped and through 20 years of full activity in the church i never saw or heard a darn thing until recently , my life has again begun to be full of dreams and strange things happening , such as the radio mysteriously turning itself off.

I found this button and it says only admins may start new threads , hey wasn,t America founded on the idea of freedom of speech intellect and exspression ect ect . thats why we hate the dirty commies right , how many chat sites would their be where access was restricted to the few . oh the land of the FREE and the brave has lost its way entirley

I am also a mechanic , thats the problem , there is no logical reason why the switch would move to the off position , will look for the new thread button , thanx for the tip .

Thats really weird , obviously somebody has plans to build a small city there . on a different topic i had a strange experience the other day , i was going to start a new thread but can,t see any button to push for new thread , am i stupid or can only certain people start threads . anyway , funny thing happened , i was standing in my bedroom brushing my hair , the radio was playing then it stopped , i waited exspecting it to come on again but it never did . walked over and found the switch on the wall was in the off position , pushed it down and the radio came on again , thats strange nobody was in the room but me . went outside and told my two daughters got some blank looks , youngest daughter looked uneasy . told wife who,s active member , must be an angel she proclaimed . told mother , oh no stay away from that sort of thing ( she,s 82 and doesn,t like scary things ) thought some more and decided there must be some rational explanation , perhaps the switch was stuck half on half off and something made it go up like a natural vibration . so went home and tried to balance switch in between , found it impossible to balance switch and get power on , so it could not have been stuck halfway , it could only have been on and somebody or something turned it off . this switch is a ordinary household switch and does not have a overload capacity which allows it to trip into off . so then i started to think why some unseen being turned the radio off . is it a sign to say , i am here but you can,t see me , or , i don,t like the radio turn it off . or i want you to listen to the spirit and stop playing noisy rock music . At certain times in my life i have had some strange things happen , this is the main reason i still believe their is a god even after my religious life came burning down around my ears . sorry for stealing this thread but i wanted to share this and could see no way of starting a new thread

God has never given us a commandment not to be friends with as many females as we wish , female male freindship brings balance and happiness , its non freindship and fear that brings social depravity creating rapists murderers child molesters ect .mormon ideas about never being alone with a female are totaly depraved , socially repugnent and demean both men and women . anybody who excepts those ideas as commandments is going to have severe problems with sexual adjustment . one day i was at a restraunt having dinner when a tour group came in , one of the tour group was a buddist monk . when seated at the table i watched the monk complain to the tour guide that the women should not be sitting near to him . what a load of bunk . the more female friends i have the better adjusted i feel , its not possible to have female freinds or any other kind of freinds without spending some time alone and having a good yack .

i don,t think alcohol is highly addictive especially not beer , maybe strong spirits are . Heroin is what i would call a highly addictive substance .I used to manage a band and one night we were playing in a very rough pub . The night went well up untill midnight when we were supposed to pack up , the band were enjoying themselves so decided to play a couple more songs , fatal mistake , about then a fight broke out , unlike most fights which end pretty quick it went on and on , whole families were getting involved , the women were worse than the men . we packed up as quick as we could whilst the fighting went on down the other end of the room , walking out to the van i was walking thru pee were people had been urinating around the back door , finaly i had to try and get paid by the manager who was behind the bar , the fight was still going and he ripped me off $100 on the fee , not wanting to argue i just took the money and got out . when i told the band we were $100 short one of them would not believe me and made out i had put it in my pocket , no police turned up and by now there were a few people lying outside injured . believe when i say i don,t like alcohol very much and find drunk people a total pain in the butt at best , and very dangerous and violent at worst . I have had one son hospitalised after being beaten up by drunks , another son hit over the head with a baseball bat , a son in law was recently beaten up in the same way , looking at the car it was covered in dents and blood spatters ,it made me sick to look at . last night another son in law came home with a black eyes after attending what was supposed to be a family party that had alcohol ( he is not a mormon but the person who punched him is ,, a totaly unprovoked attack ). so i really don,t like alcohol but i still believe that people should make this decision not to drink on there own account and should not be forced or indoctrinated into it . when a person who has been forced into prohabition crosses the line the feelings of euphoria they get from breaking out of the repressed enviroment in which they have been living are immense . hence you wil find strong members who have tried to repress their children into prohabition only to find that when they cross the line its a total train wreck , i know of some members who have not one child in prison but three or four . not only alcohol but meth cannabis ect .its so bad its your worst nightmere come true . The funny thing is they think there enjoying themselves

actually i was basing my idea on kiwi beer . However i have heard that American beer is really really bad , and so aparently is the cheese

haha , no but it looks like pee , smells like pee and people here call it piss and say lets go and get pissed . the taste is quite danky , couldn,t say it was pleasent , maybe refreshing on a hot day , govt reg have weakend the strength to the point that to get drunk you need at least a gallon , hence the saying lets get pissed because you will be running to the toilet all night , perhaps its good point is it flushes out the water works , might be good for preventing kidney stones or for people with kidney stones . thanx for those pointing out that the lds church wasn,t always drybone . JS had a bar in the mansion house and the bartender was the infamous porter rockwell , after protest from emma smith the bar was closed down. this to my mind does not make JS not a prophet of god or in anyway a lesser person . rather it shows him to be outward going and a genuine socialite . the problem is most mormons have a false and misleading picture of the early history of the church so when these things come out its problem problem problem . a wise testimony will accept human weakness as being part of the growth structure of the church and is not based on the idea that any particular person is above and beyond . red wine in moderation is good for the heart and when combined with dark choclate actually lowers cholestrol. a small glass after dinner will help you relax reducing stress. As utah has the highest usage of drugs like prozac per capita stress seems to be a problem for many members. there is a price to pay for idealic standards and stress is most likely it ..... the reason so many members drop out of church is simply to much stress . to much guilt , to much anxiety about meeting a god who cannot look on sin with the least degree of allowance . the more rules and legalisms surrounding God the more people you shut out . That could be one reason why Jesus constantly taught about salvation by grace and faith in a God whos charity and love was beyond human comprehension . most legalist always consider themselves to be men of god such as the pharisees for instance . it may not occur to them that they may be shutting out the very people whom they thought they were trying to save

my piont of view is that a person who has an occasional drink but never more than one or two is stronger than a person who never drinks because of their faith , a balanced attitude that allows for exsposure and with that resistance is stronger than prohabition because theres never any chance to gain experience or build resistance with the latter. if for some reason you loose your faith you may indeed become a raging alcoholic . when JS revealed the the word of wisdom it was not given as a commandment but was given as its title suggests a word of wisdom , hence many early lds smoked and drank , salt lake city in its early days had a whisky distilery . today the church has switched to total prohabition so if you want to have a T/r its no beer for you . despite being totaly inactive and never having to have T/R interviews i hardly ever drink and if i do never more than two glasses , beer as it happens really does taste like pee . however i do see many people who have no common sense whatsover when it comes to alcohol, for these type of people prohabition is a good idea , it comes down to how socially mature a person is . if you want to relieve stress herbal teas is a much better idea and you don,t end up making a total fool of yourself lying in the gutter after peeing your pants ...

yes i think your right i do still have a testimony of some sort more especially of the life and teachings of Joseph smith .other things that happened after i stopped going to church is everyone gossipped as humans always do , also the missionaries stopped coming to my home ,its now been five years of no missionaries even tho the chapel is only a block away , for four years the missionaries actually lived with us during the 1990,s so this was a particular cruel blow , now i exspect people are thinking i treated them badly but i never did ,never had across word with them and always made them welcome , i have a custom of never turning people away from my door if they wish to talk about religion so even the jw,s get a welcome and some air time , are home has six adults and four children under six all of whom are either inactive or non members . so its really strange . sometimes i sit on my verandah and can see the chapel steeple from across the way , i am just so mystified about this and wonder who said what to make our home so bad , as the Bishop texts me sometimes and even invited me to dinner one night i don,t think its anybody in the ward leadership , when i asked the missionaries how come they don,t come around anymore they look embarresed and say there very busy . because of all this going back seems difficult as my respect for the mormon local leadership is to say the least at a very low ebb . the only thing i did to bring this about is that during a private discussion with my high priest group leader i told him that i did not think the BOM was the natural history of south america . he obviously spread this far and wide which didn,t do me any favours . i actually believe the book of mormon is inspired but was recieved through the subconscious mind of joseph smith , in his own statement he said that the BOM was translated by the gift and power of god and written from the treasure trove of the heart , this last sentence about the treasure trove of the heart explains a lot but is never quoted by church leaders in general . all being said and done the book of mormom is a spiritual guide and is of mystical origin as no man could have written such a book on his own account , not even shakespear could have done it . so here i am stuck in no mans land withhalf a testimony .. ...

Just saying hello and hoping to find some interesting people to chat to . i have been inactive at church for about 4 years , my wife still goes and on odd occasions i go with her . before going inactive i was a strong member for about 20 years , i was married in the temple in 1980 and still have a happy marriage . we do everything together except go to church which seems quite silly but their it is . we met at church and had five children , most of my time there was very happy but towards the last few years of activity i became very depressed and found myself looking for a way out . when i do go to church i enjoy the meeting and love the recverence and hymns . i have overcome the stress and depression problem but now find i have a problem with the lack of freedom of exspression and open debate in lds meetings . i am getting older now and really do not want to leave this world without being part of the covenant i once made . however i find this problem really hits me every time i go to lds meetings and get the jitters when i hear people bearing their testimony wherin they copy each others words and even whole sentences fall into predictable statements . i believe i am open minded about this and if anybody has any advice i am willing to listen