stormwitch

A matter of translation... The German bible for example calls this "evil" a "Unglück" that is calamity, disaster, accident etc., the Dutch bible calls it a "ramp" which is disaster or catastrophe. Here something happens, that is indeed bad for the people involved, but nothing "evil" as in Satan!

So true. It makes absolutely no sense to apply these phrases to anything but the specific book (deuteronomium or revelations) as both were not the last books of the Old or New Testament written. And ask anybody who has studied the history of the bible: there have been additions to the scriptures all over... texts in the synoptic gospels were aligned... Genesis consists probably of several sources, Isaiah 40-55 are also called "Deutero-Isaiah". And I do not want to make any guesses what was done by the "Church Fathers" in the early centuries to get the scriptures fit exactly their purposes. And the great churches still do by publishing translations of the Bible that sustain their views (I work as a translator, and I know, that the possible translations of a single sentence can differ so much, that you will not believe it was the same sentence!) As a matter of fact: the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints never added to the word of God, it only published and proclaimed more and new "word of God" as it came from His own mouth or the mouth of His servants. (And if somebody refers to the JST -- see the explanation about translation above... -- and consider the possibility that God's word has been restored properly in this translation!)

Hmmmm. I like that question, do you see the steam coming out of my ears? Let's see, what we know about knowledge. Adam and Eve were taught by the Lord in the Garden of Eden, and finally, by their decision, gained knowledge of good and evil. When they were cast out of the garden, there was an angel who taught them the gospel (whatever they did not already know). So, at this point of history mankind knew the whole plan, everything essential to return to Heavenly Father. He actually did provide this knowledge. Same situation right after the flood at Noah's time. But obviously man was not able to keep the fullness of the gospel. The problem about truth is: Not everybody likes it. And the more you sin, the less you like it. (Knowledge at school is a bit different. Like it or not, as a student you have to repeat it properly to earn a good grade.) Laman and Lemuel were taught well by their father, as I assume, and they saw angels -- but they were not willing to obey, and they and their children changed the teachings and traditions according to their taste. God sent prophets over and over to restore the knowledge which was lost or corrupted. HE did his part, but Satan and man did their part as well and will continue doing it. Nevertheless, in God's plan is a way to fix this too. If you never learned the truth because you never had the chance to do so, you will be taught in the Spirit World. And we here have genealogy and temple work to do that part which they cannot do. I believe strongly, that everybody is judged not only by his/her deeds compared to the full law of God, but according to the knowledge he/she obtained or could have obtained. So if a person lives up to his/her knowledge and conviction and is - measured to these standards - a good person, he/she will most probably accept the gospel in the spirit world, and will receive the same celestial glory as anybody who accepted the gospel during his/her mortal existence. It is only a different way towards the same goal, necessary because of Satan's and man's doing, but already in the plan of salvation! Does this make sense?

He is... Gospel forum all over... and very interesting postings, i'd say ;-)

A joke, as old as Egypt and the pyramids, but I still love it: A church building needed new paint, so the bishop asked around in this particular small town, which company would do this job and not ask too much money(at this time there was no one else responsible for these tasks and the bishop had to handle these funds). A one-man-company finally got the job. Some days later this man appeared at the church building with a huge bucket of paint and started painting. When half of the building was done, he recognized that there would not be sufficient paint for the whole building. So he got some water, stirred it into the paint and went on with his job. Again and again he had to add more water. When he was almost done, all of a sudden the sky went black, a big thunderstorm with heavy rain hit that town, and the whole paint was washed off. And then a small hole appeared in the clouds, a beam of light came down, right upon the man, and he heard a voice: "Repaint and thin no more!":itwasntme:

Well this really depends on the ward... The Stadthagen ward, where people really like to come together would need at least 105 people... 1 conducting 1 for the opening prayer 1 for the minutes 1 for changing the lightbulb 1 for the closing prayer 100 for the refreshments... and we would have much more fun!!!!

D&C 76:3:[God's] purposes fail not neither are any who can stay his hand. --> God's will has not been thwarted and never will. If the transgression of Adam and Eve had not been part of his plan, there would have been no need of a redeemer. And there are sometimes more than two options... Satan would have been victorious only if Adam and Eve had eaten from the tree of life as well as from the tree of knowledge. But this is something GOD would have never allowed. But nevertheless he allowed Adam and Eve to choose: "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt noit eat of it, nevertehless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee." (Moses 3:17) They both knew they had a choice.. and after Satan convinced Eve (and she convinced Adam), they had to take the hard way as it was explained to them when they were cast out. Satan had his way... in a manner of speaking, but it was still according to GODs plan. There might have been another way and other options IF Adam and Eve had resisted (and maybe we were told about this in the great council in heaven), but here we don't know, and we need not know. But this would have been also according to Gods plan. Evil is never Gods fault, it is consequence to our decisions, or to the decisions made by others. Evil is an option according to the eternal laws to which even God is bound. He allows evil but never causes it.

@ Hemidakota: I'm living in a tiny village close to Hanover, Nether Saxony, so people would call that Northern Germany. But I was born and raised in Lübeck - that's the real North! ;-)

Great to see people from Europe! Hugs from Germany!

Seems like you have come a long way. I'm just as new in this forum as you are, but I've been a "mormon" all my life. It's great that you've found here. Obviously everything possible went wrong when you tried to make contact -- could be either Murphey's law or the adversary at work. I hope you will not experience more of these situations, and especially not here. I'm sure there are many peoply willing to answer your questions and you surely can ask me too about our church and our faith. Best wishes from Germany! Storm

I just found this site today. Not much to tell about me... mom, grandma, wife, love to read, member in 4th generation. Ask if you want to know more.