believer

This happened in February of 2011 so everyone is up to date. BYU has removed it's ban on moral advocacy for LGBT people or Same Gender Attraction. Here is Brad whom the church is pleased with who has written a new book Homosexuality: A Straight BYU students perspective. BYU: Biology Student Brad Carmack

No. Religion helps you be less judgmental. The messages we here thinly veil judgment sometimes from some leaders but in my experience It has helped me judge less.

I like that idea of dreaming being like reading titles of library books on the floor Seminarysnoozer. I don't believe in dream interpretation by way of real world books however.

In 415 A.D. St. Augustine wrote a letter to a priest by the name of Evodius, in which he described the dream experiences of Gennadius, a physician from Carthage. Gennadius, disturbed by doubts as to whether there was life after physical death, had two dreams. In the first he was visited by a youth "of remarkable appearance and commanding presence" who demanded that he follow him. Gennadius did so and was led to a city where he could hear singing "so exquisitely sweet" and unlike anything he had ever heard before. He asked his guide what the music was, and was told, "it is the hymn of the blessed and the holy." At this point Gennadius woke, believing the experience to be nothing more than just a dream. However, the next night, as he dreamed again, his young guide of the previous night returned and asked Gennadius if he recognized him. Gennadius replied "Certainly!" Then the youth asked him where they had met, but Gennadius could not remember, though he did correctly recall and describe the event of their meeting and what had occurred. The young guide then asked Gennadius if the events he just described took place in sleep or in wakefulness. Gennadius replied, "In sleep,” to which the youth responded with "You remember it well; it is true that you saw these things in sleep, but I would have you know that even now you are seeing in sleep." The youth continued, "Where is your body now?" Gennadius answered "in my bed." (Gennadius was then lucid; aware he was dreaming, while his body slept in his bed.) The youth pressed on; "Do you know that the eyes in this body of yours are now bound and closed, and that with these eyes you are seeing nothing?" "I know it," answered Gennadius. The guide then asked, "What then are the eyes with which you see me?" To this, Gennadius could not respond, he did not know the answer. The young guide then provided him with answers he had been seeking in his waking life: "As while you are asleep and lying on your bed these eyes of your body are now unemployed and doing nothing, and yet you have eyes with which you behold me, and enjoy this vision, so after your death, while your bodily eyes shall be wholly inactive, there shall be in you a life by which you shall live, and a faculty of perception by which you shall still perceive. Beware, therefore, after this of harboring doubts as to whether the life of man shall continue after death." According to St. Augustine, “This believer says that by this means all doubts as to the matter were removed from him.” Gennadius had awakened, satisfied with his answer, and didn’t doubt the existence of life after death again. “If we cannot remain present during sleep, if we lose ourselves every night, what chance do we have to be aware when death comes?. . . Look to your experience in dreams to know how you will fare in death. Look to your experience of sleep to discover whether or not you are truly awake.” Tenzin Yangal Rinpoche Interesting thread. Forgive me, I have forgotten about this site but received an email from lds.net telling me I had a message. I did not and the spam email scam thread is locked but I saw this so this topic and I thought I would post.

Thanks prophetofdoom. That's encouraging. My negative notions of pre-mortal life and incarnation don't seem to fit doctrine then from the info I've been pointed to at mormon.org. Nice to have a little clarity with that. Thanks!

Those links are much more in depth than what I had been able to find... thanks! But I'm don't think I knew Jesus or Satan. Kind of like an agnostic child running into a fire to save a puppy. But I will return to those links to learn more.

Oh, I understand it. You describe it well. I prefer the idea of winking out like a candle flame burning out. I'm also apeirophobic. But resting in the peace of the lord here and there would make it easier.

Many faiths gather around people in your situation and lift them up. The Pentecostal faith lives to help bring people like you to God. I would look to them maybe. I've had a Mormons tell me face to face that the Holy Spirit leaves them if they encounter someone who needs god. They said it was a scary feeling to have the spirit leave them. Have you tried St.Johns wort? It works great. It's the most used and most studied anti-depressant in the world and it's 100% natural. It can give you intense dreams and make you burn easily in the sun (sensitivity to ultra-violet light) but otherwise is very well tolerated by most everyone. It's subtle but effective. It's subtle but works. I have lived my life the opposite of most everyone who has posted on this thread. I have gotten into trouble trying to help others. I thought that made me a good person. Unfortunately that led to being taken advantage of by a few of the many that feed of off others good will. So now discernment is key for me. But I do find it curious how your church does that. I actually find it hard to believe. But then that would mean this message board is fraudulent and not really inhabited by Mormons. So I guess that's just the way it is. A Pentecostal service could be refreshing. I hope you feel better. :)

I have been looking for info on pre-mortal life online and haven't been able to find much on the website. I've always thought that I disobeyed god and came here to be of service to my family especially my mother who was in the process of loosing her husband and daughter when I was born. They didn't give me these ideas I just kind of came up with them I guess. I've just always had this feeling that in some kind of pre-mortal existence I was outraged by the horror and sadness of the beings here and nothing being done about it so I jumped or fell or whatever. But my best guess is that this was no-ones will but my own. Would this be considered some kind of sin? I struggled with many existential thoughts unreasonably from an early age. It was only when I was able to read my sisters diary when I was 20 that I understood I was practically born with the questions she died with from leukemia at 11. So this has only given more to my idea of a pre-mortal existence but I'm still unclear. I am able to remember just after birth in the hospital.. some of the time spent on the floor on a blanket before walking and everything past age 5 but not pre-mortal life. I still largely find god absent. With the exception of falling to my knees one time and two missionaries knocked on the front door before I even finished getting up off the floor. This is part of the reason why as a Catholic I reserve space for your faith in my life. I don't remember asking the missionaries this one. Perhaps it was too personal to me at the time. But now I feel o.k. about putting it out there. Also, how do I know this isn't pre-mortal life now as I type this? A kind of training ground. Or am I describing damnation since I have no interest in eternity.

Take it easy guys. It's alright. It's perfectly normal to believe your church brainwashed you. Most people I know have come to that conclusion at some point. Sometimes it's the right conclusion, other times it's just a part of growing up. webmasterteen had an interesting and unique perspective in his original post. Brainwashing is relevant to the discussion. I felt that way about my faith for years and no one was asking me to be a martyr. It just felt that way. Perhaps it has something to do with youth and the strength of your own independent thought life against the thoughts that have been fed you up until that point. Combine that confusion with oppression and brainwashing and things can get violent as we see with terrorists. Anyhow, enough of that already.

:oI'm not that old. Sufjan is 35. Most of his fans are around my age. It's not really young peoples music. It seems mostly college kids and up at his concerts. You trying to give me a complex because my birthday is a couple days?

:huh:You were joking with him right? I'm pretty sure terrorists believe they are doing the right thing.

Those are the only artists on your list that I've heard of. (I've never seen so many smilies to choose from in my life.) I had to. I love Sufjan and this thread mentioned him so I couldn't stop myself from posting with some untimely current info for daenvgiell regarding Sufjan. Also Ezequiel's blog is cool and worth checking out.Ezequiel's posed the question originally. "What is everyone listening to?" Besides Sufjan's I've just broken out from last summers release and I am test driving Paul Simon's new album ..

Here is the Presidential address if you missed it. YouTube - OBAMA SPEAKS ON OSAMA'S DEATH (High Quality)

"thou shall not kill" So no to that. And I fear public pressure to find the bad guy has led to too innocent people being convicted and sentenced to death. The Innocence Project - Know the Cases Utah recently executed someone by firing squad. Is this why you are questioning the electric chair? Video: Death row inmate executed by Utah firing squad | World news | guardian.co.uk Here's an appropriate vision of the future. "Citizen Rule" "Electric chair Public Execution" & "Mormon Extremists at Camp Joe Smith" YouTube - Starship Troopers newsreel 1

If your still looking for instrumental stuff Sufjan was commissioned by the Brooklyn Academy of Music to compose something. He did a instrumental piece and filmed a backdrop and did one live performance for the celebration. YouTube - THE BQE - A FILM BY SUFJAN STEVENS part 1 And for anyone interested here is a taste of his latest tour. This is from the U.S. leg of the tour. He just started the European tour. Here is his latest album. Listen for free. The Age of Adz | Sufjan Stevens

might be of help.

I see how that sounds as you quote it. The original post was about similarities between our churches and mentioned how both churches were against gay marriage. But the Catholic people are pro gay marriage and civil unions. The Vatican is not. Catholics are taught to believe and fight for "social justice" so this has created an interesting dynamic. I was just stating that I'm not sure if your church works like that. Catholic means "everyone" and the church was formed a long time ago to bring all Christians together under one Roman Catholic umbrella. They haven't been able to keep everyone happy the whole time, hence the reformation. In the case of Gay marriage the leaders of the Catholic church turned to the leaders of the Mormon church for funding for Prop 8 because Catholics themselves wouldn't fill the baskets for such a cause. So on the gay issue the similarities are only with our leaders.

This is interesting to me. I know Prop 8 was a joint effort between our churches. Mormon's seemed to do the heavy lifting and the Catholic church was alright with the LDS taking credit for the victory. But 74% of Catholics are pro gay marriage or civil unions. Though the leadership of our churches may be in line on this. I'm not sure the people are. Are the LDS allowed personal stances on social issues? Catholics are guided by the leading of the spirit and change accordingly, the church leaders act as a moral guides. I believe LDS change comes instantaneously through revelation to the prophet like when the curse was lifted from african americans. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Overall I've noticed the Catholic church keenly aware or even sometimes threatened by the LDS. So I was surprised to learn of this pact. Given that one church is very old and the other very new I think they are very similar. Personally, The Eucharist and Baptisms seem the biggest differentiators as far as sunday service goes. But both have each so that is also a similarity.

I know exactly what your talking about Amber. I live a few blocks from the MN Temple and would often feel as if it was something special. Something I needed to know more of. The Temple was in the back of my mind for years as a place I should strive for. Then one day I was at Menards (a home improvement store of which I passed the Temple on the way to)once in the store I felt overcome with what I can only describe as electricity and light. I could not stay. It took some effort but I found my way out of the store, sat in my car for about 30 min. Then on the way home I pulled into the LDS parking lot almost as if on autopilot. Which I had no previous thought of doing until I came upon the temple. I parked the car, approached the meeting house but it was locked. The gates for the Temple were open and my feet walked me to the entrance, and when I looked in I could see it was open so I went in. It was interesting, but not exactly the glory I expected. Perhaps I was expecting to glimpse heaven on earth. But in short it seemed all the white just showed tiny amounts of dirt around the carpet edges and such as glaring reminders of earthliness and man. As if inside the temple even basic laws of cause and effect that wear down carpet fibers would not apply. I was taken to a room where I read a framed explanation of pre-mortal life. I spoke briefly with someone who handed me his iPhone. I spoke with the bishop on it... he was very nice. I feel I would be being insensitive if I said anymore. I will share freely through PM for anyone interested in the rest. I do think the lord led me there, but more or less to let me know I shouldn't hold in it such high regard. At least for this period of my life. I'm not sure what the experience meant that's just what i "think". But I was largely disillusioned. I am of course speaking only of the temple itself and nothing of the ritual or ceremony experienced there. I can't imagine what you are contending with given your history but I thought if I could share my experience as an outsider with an odd experience It might focus you somehow. You say you worry it's just "a sham". I definitely cannot say that is the case. I would say just seek earnestly and heavenly father can help you in unexpected ways. That much I've learned.

Lucid Dreaming Frequently Asked Questions Answered by The Lucidity Institute Based on research at Stanford sleep labs. LD'ing is awesome but takes some training for most people. It is a well studied and scientifically proven state that has nothing to do with astral travel. It could be considered a mystical state or a step towards enlightenment but as far as science is concerned it has been established as an objective reality that can be demonstrated in a sleep lab. It has also been found that it can be learned. About half the population report in surveys that they have gained consciousness while asleep and dreaming but most all of them awaken immediately or reason away the insight and return to a non-lucid dreaming state. The trick is to remain in the dream while knowing it is a dream. It's an exhilarating experience especially in the beginning. But I have habituated to them and so often fall into a "dream of a lucid dream" where I am largely unconsciously modeling a world I expect to see from previous memories of LD's. I'm working on that though. I think it's important not to take life for granted and that includes the time we spend in dreams. It's just too easy to let life go by with out actively participating.

I came across a "plan of happiness" map that an elder drew for me. I was trying to remember what paradise/prison was and I found this thread. Very interesting. Makes me think of the end of "The Others" with Nicole Kidman... anyone remember that movie? It doesn't seem like ghosts in the home would fit into the idea of a paradise prison. As a Catholic we pray our loved ones will rest in the peace of our lord until he returns here. That's not to say that some don't stick around. Sometimes residual energy can make a place feel haunted to me. I've had that hag experience upon awakening but I never saw one. I think sleep paralysis has more to do with transition from the physiological state of sleep and dreaming to wakefulness than intrusive entities beyond the veil. But there is a whole lot to consider with that question isn't there.

Glad to find you all!