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CommanderSouth
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Posts posted by CommanderSouth
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I guess my question is, is there biblical evidence to support the idea that we are angels as spirit children of God and that angels are not a created race separate from humanity?
This being in response to miss halfway.
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I do understand it is one of the most common and one of the cheapest shots taken by the ignorant, but there is doctrines attached that make it worthy of study.
Mainly the nature of angels and our place as spirit children of God, and the nature of the Godhead.
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I don't know.
I always liked the name tags the missionaries have. And thought that would be cool to get one.
Mind you, I am a little torn on thinking about this point, part of me thinks it's simple eccentricities while another thinks it's me getting hung up on the outward signs of what I am doing, following the lines of the pharisees disfiguring themselves while fasting.
And option 3 is, I am being too hard on myself...
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If I do a church service mission can I get a name tag? I missed being able to do a proselyting mission, but plan to do a CSM (one of the internet work from home ones). I have always been fascinated with having a name tag as odd as that sounds, and was wondering if that is something I can get as a service missionary.
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My Niece and Nephew were just baptized this last weekend. Other than myself they are the only members in my family. The pastor of the church they were going to brought up issues with the Jesus and Satan as brothers thing, and I remembered, I don't have much of anything on the nature of angels as they are in LDS teaching. Is there somewhere I can go for more info on this topic?
And I guess that ties into the question, is there an issue in believing that God and Christ are not co eternal (IE that Christ is a son of God in the spiritual sense as well)? As LDS I don't have an issue with it, but I don't have much info on the topic and how one could be christian and still believe such a thing...
I hope that made sense and thank you for your input.
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I just found this digging through my posts, and reading the Wiki article on Joseph Fielding Smith, could this be the book in question LM?
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Nope, I've always had this name...
And thanks for the info everyone.
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Would you think it violated the word of wisdom given it has white wine?
I am torn between.
1: It has white wine in it
2: It's nothing like a drink, and I, in fact, have no intent to drink it...
3: It really isn't wine in it's native form...
Opinions?
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Tell me if isn't appropriate to ask this and I will edit my post.
I mentioned to my investigating nephew that the law of consecration may be in the endowment. But I wasn't sure. I probably shouldn't have brought it up but as I haven't been endowed myself I am unsure. So my question is twofold. Is it? And where can I learn more about it to better explain it. And please don't chastise me too much over this one as I am already worried about meat before milk in relation to this. That and speaking from ignorance is never a good idea.
Thanks!
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I might as well throw this out before I go to bed.
I had a tough time figuring out hell in LDS theology. I have basically put my desire for a full understanding on the shelf, but now my niece by marriage is investigating and she has already asked about the Rich Man and Lazarus (one passage I once used in an argument with a JW about the nature of hell as a literal fiery pit, ironic now it seems), I answered as best I could but I can't truly answer the question.
Have there been any books on hell, or any studies saying this is Spirit Prison, this is outer darkness in relation to the biblical and BoM references to hell?
I just wish the Protestant vs LDS views on the topic weren't so disparate, but just because the truth is hard to piece together doesn't mean it's any less true...
I appreciate the insights and thank you for your time.
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I was looking on the FARMS site, and saw there was a browse by author option. When I looked at Nibley I saw something called Book Chapters, and it looked like different books from the collected works were on there. Does anyone who has the books know if those are complete, or just partial as I have been looking to read Temple and Cosmos, Since Cumorrah and Sounding Brass and Tinkling Cymbal.
Thanks!
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I have read all of your posts and I greatly appreciate them. I often strugggle with the fact that I am Mormon and my parents Pentecostal and we live in the same home. I feel guilt thinking they could be wrong, and it shackles me down. The fact I could be wrong holds me back. And apathy sets in. Right now I feel pretty ok, and I want to look up that book you mentioned Martain and well see how things go. Once again thank you all for your insight and if you have any more to add feel free to do so I look forward to new insights...
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Thanks for any who read this.
This is one of my journal entries tonight, I need someone unattached to my life to read it, because I feel like all those I know are biased. Not that you all aren't, but you have no vested interests in me :)
What I am about to say is how I have felt today, which is my 26th Birthday, one day too old to be called on a mission, and right now massively inactive in church. I don't feel worthy to ask your alls help, or even God's because of my inactivity, but I am putting that aside and throwing this out there anyway.
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I don't know if the church is true.
I DON'T KNOW IT.
I have had doubts since day one, since before day one. My Journals will say otherwise, but I know how I pushed myself through those things. Through those time, through those doubts.
Right now I want to put out a fleece, I am not doing so yet, but I want to. I want to say if God is there that he will answer me, he will "Give me Revelation, show me what to do. I've been trying to find my way, I haven't got a clue. Tell me should I stay here, or do I need to move? Give me Revelation, I'm nothing without you, I'm nothing without you..."
I have been reading exmormon.org and see what some people have said of the apostolic witness of the apostles. That they don't share anything beyond "I know... and not by faith" Paul did, Stephen did, why can't Bednar, Maxwell, heck McConkie? I am not denying their faith, I am not saying this person wasn't lying. But I give them the same benefit of the doubt I do the bretheren.
For so long have I forced myself along. For so long have I wanted a burning in the bossom, have I wanted a testimony. But I receive so little. I question that night(NOTE this is speaking of the night I received what I believe often is the cornerstone of my testimony), I question it so hard. I thought I had found it and I could explain the whole thing away to simple excitement, and I think it may have been. My message from God could have been nothing more than my own estaticness.
I have no one to talk to. No one to help me. All I have is a God who I am not 100 percent sure exists. I may be calling out to the air. Ironically I am not in tears, I am down, but not crying. I want this all to go away, but the apathy monster as I have callled it with the elders before, is there, and he is raging. In so many ways I don't care, either that or my feelings are numb and dumb, not speaking.
I listen to Bednar's "Spirit of Revelation" when I sleep, and it is calming. And the Mormon in me says that confirms it. But I see so many problems. So many issues. This is why I need a testimony of my own. So if all the apostles fell down around me I could stand on my own, I could say aside from any man I KNOW it's true.
But I can't, at least not yet.
I want it to be, I want it to be more than anything, I want my family together in the after life because if it is true I know they will accept it in the life to come.
But I think today death is the end. Conciousness is a side effect of the body running, like exhaust from a car. I hope it is more, but for today that is how I think.
God help me.
Give me strength.
Help me stop beating myself up, even as I write this I beat myself up for writing it, as I want someone to read it, and feel sorry for me. But that cause me to beat myself up, and that causes me to want help, and that causes me to beat myself up, ad INFINITUM...
Bring back my emotions.
I have never been at peace with my decision, never happy, I just want to be happy. I don't want to feel like I am running from God...
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Once again, thank you to anyone who read this. It could be I am just emo on my Bday, but I really would appreciate any thoughts. I post this in Gospel Discussion, because I am really questioning the idea of Moroni's promise. Am I wrong to want to be able to go back and completely reconfirm my testimony. Or does God expect me to soldier on with what he has given and rely solely on that. And furthermore, as a consequence of my inactivity not give me further light and truth and peace on what I would be doing if I were active...
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I do understand that we teach near universal salvation and that those who aren't exalted are still saved per se. But correct me if I am wrong, but we still have to attack biblical infallibility/inerrancy. Coming out of a church who believed that, even a year and half out, is still a hard sell. Ironically I have a stronger testimony of the Snow Couplet than I do of a lack of biblical inerrancy/infallibility, but there is one I have to keep to myself a lot...
I simply feel so small when trying to witness to those firm in their faith...
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Worse yet, I am planning to server a mission and this really dampens my spirits...
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Intellectually I accept Exaltation is only obtainable through proper baptism, obedience and enduring to the end.
To tell a Christian they are wrong and not making it to heaven, and then turn on the infallibility of the bible in favor of the BoM, intellectually I get. Convictionally, and the ability to do it is almost nonexistant, leading to a "schooling" IMO of myself today when trying to discus the gospel with another christian. Thankfully I like the guy and we are friends, but I don't know what to do...
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Mind you this is asked by one who has not received the endowment. But if I had questions about the doctrine and understanding of specifics of the ordinances, I know I typically wouldn't talk about it outside the temple, but what about IN the temple. Is there anyone I can talk to in there, or by the time I go through it will I understand it all enough to not have questions.
Example, I have questions about things to do with the new name mentioned in revelation, and I wonder if there is anyone I can talk to about it, or do I need to simply wait until I go through the ordinance and worry about it then. And I am not asking anyone to answer anything, I am just talking out loud :)
Thanks for the input!
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I have been doing a little research on my own and honestly the claim made by the Strangites that 2 Nephi speaks of "Come Come Ye Saints" when it says they will say "All is Well in Zion" is a little spooky. Not that I agree with it, but it still gives me pause.
Anyone have any good sources on this topic they want to add? Just wanted to bump it to see if anyone else had any ideas that may not have seen it before.
Thanks!
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And if I was unclear originally I appologize, as a lot of times I figure terms that are clear to me are also clear to others, and that isn't always the case : )
Also, Loudmouth_Mormon, do you know the name of that book?
And I don't know if I would be more interested in JIIIs Claims, as I would Rigdon, though I would definitely be interested as IIIs claim would seem potentially legit...
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that would be correct the secession dispute following the death of joseph smith is what I was referring to. and I am wondering if my sarcasm detector is broken as well
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Where would be a good place to read about it? I hope there are sources out there that are both faith promoting yet not completely neutered of controversy, but that might be asking to have my cake and eat it too :)
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And perhaps, struggled with a bit.
To gain exaltation, we must be sealed, to gain exaltation, we must be endowed.
When asked, "What must I do to be saved" Paul and Silas answer, "Believe"
That's it, nothing more. I do understand you have to take more than one passage which is why we can get information on baptism in some other verses. But the one thing I don't understand is if the temple ordinances are so vital in our exaltation, why is nothing like that ever mentioned in the bible, or the book of Mormon, or the doctrine and covenants, or the pearl of great price? It seems something like that would be more plain.
I don't know everything, and maybe I am missing the point. Maybe I haven't seen it in scripture because I haven't studied it enough, but until then, if that is why. I do wonder.
What do you all think?
Thanks for the thoughts.
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And I do know I have posted the central issue with D&D and the like before, so I wanted to approach this from more of the angle of it seems I may be too hard on myself about things, and this is the only scapegoat of unrighteous behavior I can think of to pin guilt on.
Right now I am 25 heading towards the closing window of mission possibility, and am not in a position to serve as much as others in my ward, but I feel the same feelings in relation to that. Not serving a mission would be not listening to the prophet, even when some people think I may not be required to by the lord due to my circumstances. I can't shake the guilt. Even when those whose counsel I seek say I am/may be in the right, I feel wrong. I think that is the issue I am fighting with. Perhaps it is the issue of forgiveness of self...
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As some of you may remember I have voiced concern over things of a high fantasy nature in the past. That is, I worry that the trappings of things of that nature are wrong for me as they are demons, and magic, and monsters and such.
Well, I have been thinking today and I realized, I always seem to have felt, even when I wasn't a member, and was back in the pentecostal church, that the punishment of God was always ready to come down on me at any moment, like I was doing something wrong and always in danger of being caught.
There have been times when I was playing RPGs, and such, or Magic The Gathering, or whatever and I didn't have any issues. I remember specifically up until I was about 16 I had no issues, but one night in a church service it all hit me like a ton of bricks, that this stuff as unholy and was horrible and the like. Mind you, my parents kept me from watching the Ninja Turtles once they found out Splinter meditated, and the Smurfs when they found out about Gargamel, though for some reason I was able to watch Eureka's Castle, and she was a sorceress in training. So I came up in the whole D&D is Satan type of culture.
More recently though I noticed I always feel like the general authorities can see right through me and I am not hiding anything from them, and they and God know I am playing Warhammer 40k, and it is horrible, and I am playing RPGs and they are the spawn of Satan. Thing is, I have talked to members in my ward who have 40k armies, my insitute leader has no issue with high fantasy from what I can gather, and says I shouldn't worry about it, just get back in church (Aside from institute I have been inactive for a while) and see where those feelings go.
All I know is that today I don't know that I have done anything wrong, yet I feel the sword looming over my head. Odder still is that I have been in the bible heavily the last two days, and am trying to read through in 40 days, so needless to say I haven't been disregarding scripture reading. But with all that I feel like I am "filthy rags" because I am not perfect. I read "be ye perfect" and I am not, and I don't know how God can accept me. Moroni says If ye deny yourselves of all ungodliness THEN his grace is sufficient for you, that is a standard I don't feel I can live up to. I play M rated games, I don't watch R rated movies, but I feel like I am unclean, even though as it stands, I haven't done anything wrong since I last repented (and talked things over with my bishop, which was on graduating insitute, not these feelings).
I appologize for being longwinded and using the boards as a shrink, but I just wanted to see what you all thought. I don't know, maybe I am right and I need to throw all the Final Fantasies I have (which is all of them) in a fire, or maybe my head ins't screwed on straight. Either way, all thoughts are welcome, and appreciate very much.
Thanks!
Romans 9:17 vs Exodus 7:3 JST
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted
Is there any contradiction in these? The seemingly unfair view of Pharaoh as laid out in the plain text of Exodus is that God hardens his heart, and then punishes him for it. And God even goes so far as saying, this is why I raised him up, to show my power.
JST fixes this by saying, Pharaoh hardened his own heart, but if you look at Romans 9:17, it repeats the idea that God's power being shown is why he was raised up, and even with free will, he was raised up knowing his free will would lead to bad choices, is that any different from not having free will at all? And if God made it so he could be raised up, doesn't that hamper his free will in the beginning?
I ask all of this because I am discussing the argument of free will vs predestination with a friend, and I can't accept that a loving God would create immortal souls, knowing they would fall, never be saved, and burn in protestant hell, and I struggle to think how anyone else can either...