musashi

but all the carbondating stuff already shows what really happened, how old stuff is. in church terms...hmm... yeah i guess they got killed when the whole world was flooded. noah was supposed to get two of every animal, but maybe just couldnt fit dinosaurs inside his boat.

lds teach that ham's wife was black so the cursed gene was preserved through them.

the dinosaurs died millions of years ago. one popular suggestion is that the earth was hit by a great meteorite.

Is that the only part of the chapter that is literal? I thought this chapter was alot like the other chapters of revelation. Symbolic.

I like how you said "bean" with a rock. That's such a cool expression. By the way, besides modern revelation where did the whole war in heaven come from? I mean what scriptures is it sourced from? Our weapons in that war of all wars was our testimonies :)

He didn't give them a chance to repent that's what I'm saying. One mistake and that was it.

He damned a third of his children to hell before they even came to earth. They must have done something really bad, because even murderers can go to heaven.

Ryan's right. There's actually no problem here. Its an just an evil spirit. They're always doing stuff like this.

Why do think the scriptures have to be so cryptic??? Jesus should just say "Peter I'm gonna build my church around you, so in essence you're gonna be like a rock." Then he should give Peter a chance to ask any questions about that. THEN he should say "The gates of hell will prevail against it but not for long, not for long in Kolob time, not even two days. Then after that the church will come back to full strength and then the devil can't prevail against it."

I wish I had one of those...

Does that mean they can teleport? Or just that they can turn off their invisibility to some people?

Exactly. "Translated" God changed his body so it won't die. God can do anything.

It was lost and it wasn't lost. All those who believed and had authority died EXCEPT John - he's still alive today I just started a post on the very topic. He's body has been changed so it doesn't die.

He he... I think it's true. They're sneaky little characters aren't they. The ones I've heard usually involve them doing some otherwise impossible task then only letting the witnesses catch a glimpse of their three personages, or else catching a ride with ordinary members of the church in their car and then all of a sudden just disappearing, like a ghost. If I had the power to teleport, then I probably wouldn't ride in cars much.

Cool. Anyone have any ideas where they are or what they are doing? I was also wondering if they're friends with eachother.

Are the three nephites and John the apostle still alive? I've heard some stories that they are. I wasn't sure if they were official doctrine, or just authorities saying their opinion.

Yeah that would be sleep paralysis. I did an assignment on it in college. The theme was skepticism about aliens and alien abductions though. Many people that claimed to have been abducted by aliens said that they had awoken in the middle of the night and seen lights and such and that some force pinned them down to their bed and they were not able to move their bodies. I believe I still have the power point presentation of the assignment which is really interesting if anyone would like to have a look. But it's not the devil man don't worry. It happens to people that are not investigating or getting reactivated into the mormon church too. Satan is way more subtle you know, he makes you think he's not there until he's GOT YA! Anyway sounds like you're ok now. Definitely if it happens again just get a priesthood blessing because they heal everything. If for some reason that doesn't work...Can't think of why. But if it doesn't just remember. A. Not enough faith: By you or possibly by the one who gives you the blessing. B. It's not God's will. (Strength through trials.)

Why are you so angry?

It is not unusual to have a missionary say, ‘How can I bear testimony until I get one? How can I testify that God lives, that Jesus is the Christ, and that the gospel is true? If I do not have such a testimony, would that not be dishonest?’ Oh, if I could teach you this one principle. A testimony is to be found in the bearing of it! … It is one thing to receive a witness from what you have read or what another has said; and that is a necessary beginning. It is quite another to have the Spirit confirm to you in your bosom that what you have testified is true. Can you not see that it will be supplied as you share it? As you give that which you have, there is a replacement, with increase! -Boyd K. Packer. Maybe what we are taught varies slightly depending on what ward we attended, or who our mission president was. Where I live we were taught about pure testimonies. In sacrament we were not supposed to be sharing stories, faith promoting though they may be. As a priest I used to pay attention to the testimonies, and if they consistently weren't "correct" then I would get up there and make sure I did it properly. The checklist was if I remember correctly to say. 1. The church is true 2. Joseph is a prophet of God 3. Gordon B Hinckley is a prophet of God. 4. The Book of Mormon is true. 5. Jesus is the Savior. Am I making this up? Furthermore we were taught to say "I know" The kids in primary are taught to say "I know". The kids that go to the stand during testimony meeting and just repeat what their parents say - "I love my family. I know the church is true. I know Joseph Smith was a prophet of God." Am I twisting things? That's exactly what I grew up with.

For me its like this. Imagine growing up having your parents tell you and your brothers and sisters that vegetable are not good for you. You grow up eating fruit and grains and other good stuff so because thats all you know, you KNOW vegetables are bad for you. Your parents tell you not to listen to anyone who is not in your family because they are of the world and they will weaken your testimony about the vegetables. Those that are not in your family look at the evidence which is abundant, that says that vegetables are infact good for you. Nothing at all supports what your parents believe. But you've always believed that what they said was true and it feels right. As your friends mature they start eating less junk and more vegetables to look after their body with a healthy diet. You know they are just being worldly. One day you start to study it for yourself and you find alot of information that really proves that vegetables are infact good for you. So you have to decide - Do you continue doing what you KNOW is true and ignore science which is fickle and changes its opinions about things easily (Remember MAN used to think the world was flat, eh? eh?) Or do you eat vegetables based on your newly discovered knowledge? Very similarly, with the word of wisdom. I served my mission in Japan, and people would often say to me "Why do I have to give up green tea? It's good for you!" Because my testimony was strong I could tell them that the reason they should give it up is because God said it is not for the body. I would encourage them to pray about the Book of Mormon, because once they knew it was true then they would know that green tea is not good for you. I can remember the subsequent visits when I exhorted them to continue praying because I KNEW they would get an answer. I remember those that had had answers to their prayers but they just didn't know it yet. My job was to identify the spirit for them. I can remember learning in the MTC that everyone needs to learn what the spirit feels like, as it can be different for every person. Different for every person? Really? ??? I can remember one returning missionary’s final testimony at a zone conference. He was a zone leader at the time. He shared his story of how he gained his testimony, of how he had read the Book of Mormon many times, and prayed many times, and never received an answer. Until one time when he prayed about it, and a feeling came over him “You know. You’ve known the whole time it is true.” To me that is not much of an answer from God. But still we had all been trained that when we bore our testimony we must say we KNOW its true. If we said BELIEVE it was not a powerful testimony. After all, a testimony is found in the bearing of it. So we should lie and say we KNOW its true, then God is gonna tell us it is true after. A reward for your leap of faith – even though you’re actually lying. I remember learning that the gift of tongues was not what it was in the Bible, but the gift that missionaries received, which was 90% perspiration, 10% inspiration. Where is the miracle in that? In my mission it was simple. Those that studied the hardest, and the ones that had a natural ability for languages were the ones who spoke the language the best. Like the vegetables, when I was in the church I knew it was true and life was good. When I really studied it out for myself I knew it wasn’t true. You cannot argue with facts. You can argue with feelings. Man…I could go on forever. But posting here does not change anything. I have not even tried to convince my family to believe what I believe. They are happy the way they are, and they feel sorry for me because I don’t have what they have anymore. It’s so humiliating when those that were my best friends before now see me as a project and say things like “You know deep in your heart its true. When are you gonna come back to church?” Look at it for yourself. If the church is true, then the proof is in the pudding, and you’ve got nothing to worry about with so called anti-mormon material. Studying anti-mormon material could even be benefical because you could see the arguments against the church and then confirm its all just a load of crap. This was a long post…I might leave it here for now. I hope this made sense to some people out there. The vegetable analogy was probably pretty dumb, I don’t know.

????? I don't get it. If thoughts come in to your head, your saying they're not yours, but that a devil is putting them into your head? Isn't it just that doubts are coming into your head and that you are ignoring by reassuring yourself that you know the church is true?

I was born into the church and was one of the people that put my whole heart it into it. I also "knew" it was true until I looked into the 'anti-mormon' junk. Then I really KNEW. Not like before where I FELT it was true. Members have this idea that the devil has these people's hearts and all they want to do is destroy God's kingdom. It is such a load! These people are honest, and all they are doing are stating the facts. I was shattered when I "lost my testimony" but what I have is so much better now. It's real. Why can't LDS study both sides of the equation and then make a wise decision, instead of just listening to the brethren and then ignoring everything that sounds negative? I know that there are people in this forum that have studied both sides and they chose to be LDS and THAT I respect. I think those people are smart I really do. Even though to me it seems so clear that it could never be true, I know that it's stupid to think that I'm the only one who can't be fooled. If they have really studied it out, without any bias, and come to that conclusion, then I truly respect those people.

sorry i took so long to reply but i don't think satan puts thoughs into your head. first of all he would be too busy to just be concentrating all that time on you. there are 6 and a half billion people in the world you know. it would have to be one of his minions. i'm thinking about the process of HOW they put the thoughts in your head. i would say first of all they think of something evil, then they use their magic to take that thought out of their head and transport it in to your mind. then they wait there to see if you entertain that thought or not. thats probably what happened. the other possibility is that sometimes your mind THINKS and REASONS. maybe sometimes it doesn't just accept everything at face value. i think if your mind has doubts sometimes the best thing to do would be to study it out and prove to yourself it is true, or prove it is not true. you can get those feelings of doubt out of your head by ultimately proving whether it is true or not. the doubts will go away when you KNOW something is true. i'm not talking about just having a FEELING it is true. like going to the temple and just feeling good about whats going on. actually studying it and proving it.

Depends on your perspective. For me they are significant. Here is a link that summarizes the changes. http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/bom1830/changes.shtml

unfortunately meaning faith destroying? it hasn't affected orrin jelo but it was one more thing that lead me to leave the lds church