InquisitiveSoul

I've heard prayer discussed as one of the keys to a strong faith and relationship with the Almighty. What about Meditation? Does Meditation play any role in prayer or faith? What is the LDS position on Karma? Is there one? Do you believe the things you do will come back to you in this life? For example, the clerk gives you too much change, say $20 extra, you notice it but still put it in your pocket. Will this act play a negative role in your finances later?

I say strange for lack of a better word. Certainly there are doctrines in the church which seem odd to people looking in from the outside. One may argue all religions have strange doctrines. Perhaps in place of strange I should say do you think the church (or God) does what it does or has some requirements to weed people out? 3 hour meetings, 2 year missions, 10% of income, lay clergy? In many churches they pay the organist. As was mentioned earlier there are a lot of requirements/commitments in your faith, more then most religions. I was reading about Garn this morning as well and his situation. When I scroll down at the end of the article you see lots of comments. Funny how many people will say, "There you see! Told you them Mormons were evil!" As if the man's Bishop said "Hey Brother Garn, you should go out and find an underage girl to go hot tubbing with. In fact, do it this week!" Another item of note, I was reading some comments on the anti site I mentioned before. I'm surprised by not only how bitter they seem, but how negative they seem. Every act the church or one of it's members commit must have a sinister motive behind it. I would say the reason there anti propaganda doesn't bother me is because of how dark and negative they seem. There isn't any light coming from these people - not to say they are bad people - but there is something else going on with them. I feel a need to find the light and fix my injured soul...not wither in bitterness and negativity.

I also had this thought on some of the "strange" doctrine such as Polygamy or the misconception of a Prophet, specifically Joseph Smith, having to be perfect. When I was 14 I went to try out for the freshman basketball team. The first day, we had close to 50 kids show up for tryouts. The coach took us out to the track around the football field and said "Ok gentleman, for the next hour I want you to run as many laps as possible. No walking around the track, you better run!" So we ran for an hour. When we finished Coach said ok, see you tomorrow same time. For the first week we repeated the same experience. By the end of the week Coach hadn't cut anyone, but there was only about 20 of us left. A couple of the kids quit mid week when they showed up and were told we were running again. Others didn't come back after the first day or two. After High School, I played on a City League team with the Freshman Coach. We had become friends and were sitting around talking about old times after a game one night. We talked about the first week of tryouts and he told me he didn't have time to evaluate 50 basketball players so he made us run the first week to see who really wanted to play. He didn't want any lazy players on the team and he knew the real basketball players would keep coming back. Do you think God may put in a "strange" doctrine or imperfect Prophets to weed out the fakers?

The initial picture painted by the Missionaries is of Joseph with the Gold Plates reading and dictating to his scribes who are sitting on the other side of a curtain. I've heard and read other versions of the translation process which are far different. In the big picture, if the Book of Mormon is true then the tranlation process is completely irrelevant, no matter how any of the stories sound. What is relevant to me is if they (members & missionaries) are painting a picture which is incorrect, what other doctrines are they teaching which may not be entirely in line with official Mormon Doctrine. For example, I've had some Mormons tell me years ago that Mormons are forbidden from drinking any soft drink with Caffeine. As I've learned more about the church, their statement wasn't exactly true. There isn't a rule in place anywhere in the doctrine that says you are forbidden to drink a Pepsi because of Caffeine. However, it was a common idea years ago that Mormons didn't drink Pepsi/Coke or any other drink with Caffeine. Additionally, I have seen first hand if you go to a facility owned by the church, drinks with Caffeine are conspicuously absent from vending machines. (this isn't an issue for me rather an example of people teaching their own ideas.) I would say because the church doesn't sell drinks with Caffeine, it is implying that Caffeine goes against the spirit of the law and isn't exactly recommended. Same thing with rated R movies.

For Faded and Bytor, I've heard it all about Joseph Smith as I'm sure you have as well. He's a treasure seeker, he changed his story multiple times, married children, committed fraud, tried to sell the Book of Mormon Copyright in Canada, ect. I'm sure you've heard it all and worse too. I wouldn't say I believe these claims as it's been nearly 200 years and a lot can be said about a person, both positive and negative in that time. I mentioned South Park only as a reference to how some people paint Joseph Smith. I'm not saying it's a fact or reflects my thoughts on the man. I believe the hat was the thing that stuck out the most to me because I hadn't heard anything about it. As for Prophets Faded, I agree they aren't perfect. My thoughts on Prophets tend to be on the side that they should be better than average in terms of how they live their life. Not to say they have to be perfect but I'd expect them to be a better example. Perhaps my expectation would be too high. I did pay a lot of attention to Gordon B Hinckley and thought very highly of him. I'm sure he lived his life in a better manner than 99% of everyone who has ever lived. I went to church Sunday. It was Fast Sunday for this Ward as they had a Conference last week. I had the opportunity to speak with an old gentleman who had been a Bishop among his many callings. I asked him if Prophets today still have visions of God and angels, he told me he believes Thomas Monson talks with God and Jesus face to face as do the other Prophets/Apostles. The only difference between these men and Joseph Smith is Joseph was a young man who probably should have kept many of his visions to himself. Thomas Monson on the other hand is experienced and wise and knows it's not necessary to "brag" (his words) about his experiences. Further, in this day and age if Thomas Monson was visiting Presidents and other leaders claiming to have visions he'd be considered a nut. I thought it was an interesting explanation. I'm also wondering about Tithing. I work 2 jobs right now in order to pay all the bills and provide for the family. Taking 10% of my money to pay tithing will be difficult. Do you really pay 10% when you can't afford it? If it's a choice between paying the Power Bill and paying Tithing, do you really pay Tithing instead? Thanks for your responses everyone. I've enjoyed reading your thoughts.

I thought maybe he was laughing at the Glenn Beck stuff, but it did seem out of place with my original post.

Interesting insights hordak, specifically on the bush and the hat.

Another thing about Beck, a lot of people outside the church make the assumption he speaks for people in the church. I don't see it that way.

I was trying to be nice about Beck wingnut! I don't want to get tossed if people here love GB. I understand what you are saying in regards to Christianity and ruffling feathers, but you'd think people could put those issues aside in order to protect their common interests and beliefs. I'm looking at the current Government and their agendas seem to be at odds with Baptist and Mormon beliefs. I'd like to see more from these organizations instead of the quiet passiveness coming from what I believe is the silent majority. If the majority stays silent for too long bad things happen.

Looking into the LDS Church and religion as a whole as I mentioned on an earlier visit, I've made some observations. I hope my observations aren't taken the wrong way, but I do welcome your feedback. First, I don't understand why other Conservative Christian Religions would have such a problem with members of the LDS Church and the Mormon Doctrine. Certainly one can see where Polygamy would be an issue if it was still in place, but where it hasn't been in place for more than 100 years I'd suggest to them it's time to move on. My guess would be if you took 100 Southern Baptists and 100 Mormons and asked them 10 questions regarding their position on America and both their Moral and Political beliefs, both groups would answer in a similar manner. Both groups tend to stand for God, family, country, and living their lives in a morally clean manner. Second, why are former Mormons so bitter? I have a man in my office who was once Mormon and he has a lot of resentment towards the church. He told me he doesn't believe in any of the church's teachings and seems to hold the entire religion in contempt. When I told him I was looking into it again he was rather rude in his comments. As I've talked to people and done some research online, it seems the majority of former Mormons are very liberal politically - in many cases bordering on Marxism. Do you think their political beliefs may cloud their spiritual beliefs or judgment? I've visited some sites I'd consider as Anti and many of the former members happened to be homosexual. Many of these people would talk about polygamy and racial/sexual descrimination as their reasons for exiting the church without any discussion over doctrine. Glenn Beck seems to take a beating on these sites though if I was LDS, I don't know that I'd want Glenn Beck to be the poster boy for the religion. Sometimes he seems a little unstable. My position is this: I like the Church's stand on family. I like the patriotic attitude many members project as I think the United States would be much stronger if all citizens felt the same way. I would suggest most former Mormons motivation for leaving the church comes from their politics more than any other factor. In terms of doctrine, it does seem the women in the church aren't full partners with the men. For example, if my understanding is correct, man may be sealed to more than one woman, but a woman may only be sealed to one man. If this is correct, I'd like to hear some thoughts on this. In terms of other doctrine, I don't see many issues. I have observed over the years that there does seem to be a disconnect for some of the members or missionaries. Though some of the Missionaries I've met profess to believe and have a strong testimony, they fail to recognize if their faith is correct they should be more diligent in their Missionary work. Another argument I've read about against the Book of Mormon is DNA. While it does seem the church has backed off the Natvie Americans being Lamanites, I disagree with many people who claim the DNA evidence destroys the Book of Mormon. Over time DNA can change a great deal. There is a study showing some descendants of early European settlers had so much change to their DNA, scientists can no longer prove they are of European descent using DNA. It would seem any claims regarding DNA disproving the Book of Mormon are claims based on ignorance to DNA studies. Mormons tend to have more hope then other religious people I have met. Even if the religion isn't what it claims to be, it does provide it's member with a great deal of hope and peace. As for Joseph Smith, I understand a prophet isn't perfect, but it seems Joseph was less perfect than most. It makes me wonder why he was chosen and not someone else. Any thoughts here? He kind of reminds me of a politician who preaches family values and then finds himself in hot water when he doesn't exactly practice what he preaches. He is still an issue for me which hold me back from joining. The other issue which holds me back is the process from which the Book of Mormon was translated. I was told one thing by the Missionaries and later told something different by other members which seemed rather strange. Someone also sent me a link to an episode of South Park and a link to some writings from Joseph Smith where he said he translated the Book of Mormon using his hat. This seems very strange to me. Any thoughts or feedback you can provide will be appreciated. In many instances, the doctrine of the LDS Church makes far more sense then any other religion. It makes sense to me that God would want prophets on earth. I like the idea that one can have the spirit with them at all times and receive their own revelation through their own diligence. Families is another point of doctrine I like though some of the things I've read about the Temple seem odd to me. If you read all of this, what do you think? Sorry to ramble on so much but I wanted to get some thoughts I've had out.

Thanks for taking the time to post this Finrock. Interesting perspective.

Thanks for your responses. Life certainly is full of twists and turns. There are 2 charachter flaws I'm working on at the moment, one is my cynical attitude - I always feel like people view me as a jerk because of it. I don't mean to come across as a jerk, but I can see I do. The 2nd is my habit of redigesting past regrets. I'm really bad about this, especially when I'm going through hard patches in life. Palerider, I love Zig! He's one of the most upbeat and positive people I've ever seen.

As I've been looking at myself and my various opinions on life, religion, politics, even marriage, I've come to see I'm a very cynical person with a poor attitude. It's been a long process reaching this conclusion, but I know I need to change myself. I don't find satisfaction with my career and I'm lacking balance right now. Consequently, I've become a person who has a difficult time having faith and hope. I do what I need to do everyday, but I do feel stuck in a rut with a why bother attitude. I'm rude to people at my job and instead of being excited to have new clients I'm finding myself more annoyed. I suppose this is part of what has brought me to the point of searching religion again. I see a certain amount of hope which comes with faith and I'd like to have it. The advice or question I have, what do you do to keep a positive attitude? I don't feel depressed, but I do feel a lack of motivation feeling that I've squandered many of life's opportunities. These feelings lead me to put things off and operate at a fraction of my potential. I look at myself now compared to 10 years ago and the difference is remarkable. How do you change? What motivates you? Thanks for your responses.

I guess I tend to think of Prophets bringing major revelation or news, Noah and the flood, Moses and the 10 commandments, so on. In large part, I see the teachings of today you mention as being common sense. Perhaps I discount common sense and make too many assumptions about people having common sense? Maybe people are too side tracked with life and need to hear those messages.

Hi Ben, I don't have an established religion. I guess you could call me a free agent. I believe in God or a creator, but beyond that it's a sea of confusion. I'm at a stage in life where I feel like I'm drifting and wasting life. If there is something more, I'm hoping to find it soon and find the direction God wants.

One of the things I find interesting about Mormonism is the idea that there are Prophets on the Earth today leading the Church. I've heard Thomas Monson speak and while he says some good things, it strikes me that much of what he says is simply common sense or messages that are repeated from the scriptures. Joseph Smith claimed to be a Prophet and he gave the world the Book of Mormon among other things to prove his claim. I don't know if I believe he was a Prophet or not, but he did offer something. Has Thomas Monson offered any new teaching or predicted any event to prove his claim to be a Prophet? Does he actually claim to be a Prophet or is it a title others use for him? Is he considered a Prophet in the same way that Moses was a Prophet or is it different now? When I think of a Prophet I think of the OT Prophets. It's a weird thought to me personally to think of Abraham, Moses, Isiah, Thomas Monson. Do you believe there are other Prophets on Earth who aren't Mormons?

Thanks Prodigal Son. I am familiar with Joseph Smith but I still have some reservations about him. I've been reading the Book of Mormon and doing some research on Joseph Smith. Smith is a polarizing figure in the world of religion as I'm sure you already know. If you are on the Mormon side he is a great man, if you are on the non Mormon side, he is evil. I haven't decided where I come out on him yet and that's partly why I'm reading the Book of Mormon.

Hey Loudmouth! (Great name btw) I read the link you provided and the thing I get in the NT is how general everything is regarding the Apostasy. One of the problems I have with The Bible is how easy it can be to read into things based upon ones faith. A Baptist and a Mormon can read a verse and come away with completely different meanings. Some might read and say an Elder has to be married while others will read and say those same verses refer to a Bishop. Does the Book of Mormon discuss the Apostasy? Do Mormons believe the Catholic Church was true before the Apostasy as Catholics say they are the church established by Christ upon the Apostles? I like what you said about The Bible Loudmouth. We are in complete agreement on that one.

I've been considering this story for the past day or so. I have a problem with it and here are my reasons: 1. Nephi commits murder - reading through the verses he lists his reasons to justify his act. 2. Nephi is portrayed as a man who is righteous. If he is righteous, why is he breaking a commandment from God? Certainly Nephi would have followed the Law of Moses if he is as righteous as the Book of Mormon says. Do you believe God would command a person to break a commandment? 3. Laban was unable to defend himself. Nephi committed a cold act against a man who was unable to defend himself. I don't have a problem with people killing in self defense or in times of war when it's a necessary evil. Because Laban was out, this doesn't seem to fall into the self defense killing. I'm interested in Mormon points of view on this. How do you reconcile Nephi's actions? Nephi is an interesting charachter. My overall perception of him through the first 5 chapters of the Book of Nephi is negative. Perhaps he will change my mind as I continue.

Keep in mind, if you are Mormon or Baptist or insert religion here, most likely your religion makes perfect sense. To those of us on the outside looking in, many ideas don't make sense yet. That said, I'm not convinced an apostasy was necessary yet. Certainly there are references to people or groups falling away, but being on the outside I'm still looking for evidence of an apostasy. It seems Catholics take a lot of heat from Mormons. However, I'd suggest Mormons should thank the Catholics, specficially the Monks for keeping The Bible alive through time. Respectfully Yours.

I appreciate your humor, but would you care to elaborate? Certainly a Catholic would disagree with a Mormon. I've heard where Mormons cite an apostasy, thus laying the foundation for a restoration. The things I'm stuck on is: 1. How can anyone prove a Catholic Priest is acting without "authority." 2. Why a 1600 year (give or take) gap without Priesthood or a true church?

Why do Mormons believe there was an Apostasy?

Ok WindRiver, because the NT is Greek and the OT is Hebrew, consistency of his name was lost in translation?

I've been having the same thought. I can't remember or find a place where the OT mentions the Messiah as Jesus Christ.

The Old Testament prophecies of the Messiah, but can you give me any specific verses where Jesus Christ is mentioned? I don't mean references to a Messiah, but a place where the name Jesus is used. Thanks.