mordorbund
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Posts posted by mordorbund
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I can understand some reticence to engage in this dialogue since it is often a cover for more nefarious motives (and I am fairly new here - so you won't know me from Lucy). I'll proceed and hope that trust and discussion pick up in the morning. I'll start, just to prime the pump.
So the way I think of each member being God, while still there being only one God is that "God" is an overloaded operator. It has two different meanings within the same sentence. So the first three statement I listed above used the term "God" as being a member of the Godhead, while the seventh used the term "God" as a synonym for Godhead. Our priesthood presidencies are patterned after the Godhead in a similar manner. We refer to all three members of the First Presidency as "President", when there really is only one president of the Church. Yet each one can be given the fulness of the Presidency when they go out and visit solo (similarly Christ had the fulness of the Godhead while on earth).
There are other ways that I think the 7th statement is reconciled with the other 6, but I'll wait for a few more posts before I share those because I'd love to hear some other perspectives.
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I now have the lengthy opinions of an anonymous author at lightplanet, Elder Holland, and President Hinckley. What are your thoughts Gerasim?
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And I'll post the obvious as well. Yes, they're one in purpose, but what does that mean to you? What is that purpose? Is that the only qualification for being in the Godhead? etc
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I'm aware of the flame war that this thread could potentially start, so I'm asking that only Latter-day Saints post and that they remain respectful of people of all faiths (including their own).
I've seen many threads where a pos(t)er will ask us to explain a Bible verse (usually in Isaiah) and it ends in an argument about whether the Trinity is bogus and how presumptuous we are to think we can become gods. I have seen in these threads that not every Christian believes the same thing (thanks PrisonChaplain for your many useful posts), and it got me wondering if we do too.
(This is the last part of the intro I promise). I've observed that there are 7 statements that most Christians (including LDS) believe regarding God (I know there's some who don't believe 4-6, but we do so I'm keeping them :)):
- The Father is God
- The Son is God
- The Holy Ghost is God
- The Father is not the Son; nor is the Son the Father
- The Son is not the Holy Ghost; nor is the Holy Ghost the Son
- The Holy Ghost is not the Father; nor is the Father the Holy Ghost
- God is one
How do you reconcile the 7th statement with the other 6? What does that mean to you? What does your answer mean for God's children?
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[i and my husband] care about each other, but aren't even sure if we wanna stay married for the rest of our earthly lives, let alone eternity. We're just too different.
I don't think anyone here can give you a good reason to get sealed for eternity if you don't already have a good reason to be married for life.
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The minute we try to demote others just because we are scared is the minute we are acting just like Satan himself. That was his original plan after all.
Comparing something to Satan's plan is the LDS forum equivalent of Godwin's Law.
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I think Mystic's confusion (and I can relate) is that once the account is set up, is it still contingent on the membership record. I know you can't get an account without the membership record. But what about after that?
Are there two database tables being kept? One of all potential website members and one of actual website members? (in which case you can be removed from one without affecting the other.) Or is your username and password just two more properties for an alread-existing entry? (in which case you can be removed from the website without it affecting your church membership, but if you're removed from the church membership, you'll also be barred from the site.)
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If you or someone you know has been excommunicated, you could always just try logging in and seeing if it still works.
Gotcha. Wish me luck on my excommunication tomorrow, and I'll let you know on Mon -- hey what are you trying to get me into?!!
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I'd spend it on pectoral and glut implants.
I understand (from another thread) that it's difficult to dress modestly when you have a large chest.
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No kidding. Everyone knows it's Alma that is impossible to slog through.
What's Alma?
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I think both. I don't think you can have one without the other. The one brings the need for the other. Without the first the second is not needed.
I think of them as being separate generations because D&C 76 tells us that "the inhabitants [of other worlds] are begotten sons and daughters of [Christ]." And I mentioned earlier that I tend to think that each of these earths have their own Adam. So I see multiple Adams for one Christ.
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We could claim all kinds of arguments for this based on historical precedents and entymology, but the relevant answer for why this church dictates this amount is that Joseph received a revelation on it. See D&c 119:3-4Why must it be 10% though? Isn't God accepting of any sum??
And for the temple ceremonies, why are they so secretive? Shouldn't a new member understand, probably what most regard as the most important aspect of the church?
There's a great quote from Joseph Smith that members like to quote. "God hath not revealed anything to Joseph, but what He will make known unto the Twelve, and even the least Saint may know all things as fast as he is able to bear them" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 149). About three years later, he gave a similar quote. "There was nothing made known to these men (well-known church leaders) but what will be made known to all the Saints of the last days." (History of the Church 5:2) This remark was given after the Prophet gave the Endowment for the first time.
So I chuckle on the inside at the perception that the temple ordinances are secret, since they're secrets we want to let everyone in on (in the proper context of course).
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My only point here is not to argue for any particular point – just that regardless of how one interprets the scriptures concerning the flood there is a chunk of stuff missing from the scriptures.
I went to my bookshelf to look up the full story in The Book of Noah (it's next to The Sealed Writings of Joseph Fielding Smith). Turns out it was a literal, fully-immersed baptism - by proxy.
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Dude, take this advice from a woman.....don't ever tell a woman that she is wearing the "wrong" clothes or that her clothes are immodest--even if they are. Simply make that judgement yourself, keep it to yourself and then stop dating/seeing her. Seriously, you don't mess with a woman's appearance unless you are that girl's dad or husband with a suicidal intent.
I'm not a fan of the spots you're wearing. And the material -- maybe you should try wool instead of leather.
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Also, if I do not pay my tithing, I will not go into the Celestial Kingdom. So is this in a way, buying your way into Heaven?
That is correct. We also pray our way into heaven. And proselyte, and preach, and testify our way into heaven. We also abstain, and forsake, and repent our way into heaven. We also serve, and minister, and administer our way into heaven. We also praise, and rebuke, and forgive our way into heaven.
If tithing is all that's holding you back, I think I'd like to trade vices with you.
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Maybe I understand "one eternal round" in the wrong way, but I imagine that when one "generation" is done, then you start on the next (just like singing Row, Row, Row Your Boat). I haven't been so bold as to settle whether the "generation" should be associated with Christ or Adam. If we associate the Grand Council with the generation of Christ, then Satan does indeed go around and torment other earths. If, on the other hand, we associate the Council with Adam and his posterity, then Satan is probably only on this earth.More questions: Why is Satan and all his host here on earth? Or are there other Satans with their host scattered all over the Universe.
The question of a Satan on other earths gets a bit more fuzzy since we need to account for his myriad roles. Let's start with daily temptations. That one is simple in my mind because I can find plenty in life to tempt me without an imp or dark prince coercing me. I'll sum it up by saying we don't just have heavenly and hellish beings enticing us, but our own minds as well (should probably be a different thread if we want to go there).
When Satan acts as the accuser (think Job), that role may be filled by other children of Adam (of that other hypothetical earth). The one that I don't have a simple answer for is when he gives the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve. If no one rebelled in the Council, then who takes this fallen role? Maybe it's not even needed. Although innocent, perhaps the primordial parents can choose mortality without a tempter (we made a similar decision to leave Father's presence and enter mortality - I don't think we necessarily needed a tempter). Or perhaps a clever God has a backup plan for a Satan-less Fall.
I like to think sometimes that Area 51 is a tourist stop for the aliens before shuttling to JerusalemIf so is this place really that important (just another place of endless many) – Why then, did Jesus come here? I know the answer – that nowhere else would put him to death. This seem to be missing the point – why is all the action here? Or is it?
.Your line of thinking reminds me of the anthrocentric notions of the Universe. Because we are here, we wonder if they are out there. But if the sludge didn't align right, there wouldn't be a mind in the whole Universe to entertain such ridiculous thoughts.
So the action is here because we are here. Let's suppose that after the Ascension, Christ took up residence on Earth[Awesome]. In fact, he's been living there the whole time with all the descendants of Adam[Awesome]. Let's even crank it up a notch and say that anytime a prophet from this earth was taken up to an unknown mountain, that mountain was on Earth[Awesome]. Then while you are sitting at your computer wondering why all the action of the life and crucifixion of the Son of God happens here, some dude[Awesome] is wondering why he gets the privilege of living in the neighborhood of Christ - which is so popular that alien prophets come to visit. On a Universal scale, where is the action really happening?
I hope I got my points across English is my second language - I started with baby talk, and now can't even remember that anymore.
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Why then, did Jesus come here? I know the answer – that nowhere else would put him to death.
I've always been taught that Earth is the wicked of all the worlds created and that's why Christ came here.
Jesus was not just the redeemer for our world, he was the redeemer of many worlds. Our world was the only one cruel enough to kill him. Jesus redeems people, so other worlds must have people. Ours is a cruel world, others must avoid us.
I've heard this before, and it seems to be a very popular idea. Does anyone know where it came from? I've seen 2 Nephi 10:3, but that only applies to the wickedest portion of this world.
Wherefore, as I said unto you, it must needs be expedient that Christ—for in the last night the angel spake unto me that this should be his name—should bcome among the Jews, among those who are the more wicked part of the world; and they shall crucify him—for thus it behooveth our God, and there is none other nation on earth that would crucify their God.
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I am not talking about life or just life - I am asking about other human life that are the spirit children of our Father in Heaven that are in the Image and Likeness of G-d - not almost, not close, but actual individuals undergoing a mortal experience to become G-d.
I know there are worlds without end. I understand the infinite vastness of the universe. But I am asking for any indication, scientific or religious that indicates there is people; (spirit sons and daughters of the Father) undergoing mortal probation somewhere other than this earth (not including the City of Enoch and such things). Is it possible mankind as we understand man and the plan of salvation - Is it possible that this earth is it - the only possible place for the spirit sons and daughters of the Father to fulfill their probation? I am beginning to believe it is possible. I am thinking if there are other places the inhabitants are descendent of Adam and Eve.
The Traveler
Moses 1:34 makes it sound like there are others, "And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many." (I guess you could argue that the Lord is saying that "Adam" signifies "many", but that's not a very popular reading). So how do we fit all these Adams in the Universe? We could say that God places these Adams veeeeeeerrrrrrrry far apart so they don't interfere with each other (or maybe they do, but we're the ones in the armpit of the Universe). Or we could say that it works on an Epoch model and each timeline only gets one Adam. Or we could go with a Sagan model and have only one Adam per Universe, and several Universes in a Cosmos.
As to evidences, SETI is 50 years old and only has a single WOW moment. And there's too many unknowns in the Drake equation for me to take it seriously.
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Don't forget this easy-to-read version of The Book of Mormon by Mike Allred (it's coming in installments)
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Sounds like you just lack the confidence to ask her out. So you gotta get confidence. That should come with some Kung Fu training. But you need money to take the courses, so you should get a job at a local diner. Oh, and practice conversating with anyone who drives a VW bug. Topics like the weather in California is welcome. And don't forget to compliment her on being thorough.
There's an instructional movie called The Phone Call that you can watch for further guidance.
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Presidential Proclamation--Mother's Day | The White House
He uses the same wording but about mothers.
Recycling speeches, eh? So does that mean in 2012 his platform is still about change and how to get us out of the crisis caused by a presidential term of executive mismanagement?
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The main argument I can think against using modern english is that modern english has lost a few words like the plural you. Except maybe in the south where they say y'all.
Actually, "y'all" can be singular and "all y'all" plural.
(I know technically "y'all" is a contraction of "you all", but in practice it does get used in the singular as well.)
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Do you think there's room in God's omniscience to deal with probablistic outcomes? (Let's have Moses tell Pharaoh to release my people. hmmm... 15% chance of Pharaoh going along with it, so if he doesn't I'll have Moses call down one plague after another. Looks like a 7% chance that Moses won't go along with it so I'll have Aaron come along with a rod and knock some sense into the lot of them...)Why would we be put to any tests if the outcome was known?
Whenever that happens, I think he usually commands us to move it so we can "grow".Likewise could God create an immovable obstacle that he could not move?
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The only thing that is absent is the need for temples. Maybe, instead of calling it temples, as those that will be built in the New Jerusalem, will be on the order of functional priesthood buildings.
Many prophets saw God in the throne room of His heavenly temple.
In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
(I also think that Lehi's vision of God on His throne takes place in the heavenly temple). I'm guessing you're statement that there won't be a temple on the celestialized earth is based on Revelations 21:22
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
But John just got done describing the temple there
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Just because we will no longer perform work for the dead doesn't mean we won't have temples. There's more to a temple than an endowment house.
One God, what does this mean?
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted
I'm treating your 2 Nephi quote as a non sequitur because (johannine comma aside) I think the Godhead reference is just a passing one and not the main subject. My reading of this is that there are 3 testimonies that Jesus is the Son of God:
All three testify that Jesus is the Son of God. Similarly, by these three witnesses we are born again (with the Water being the water of our own baptism in similitude of Christ's). The earlier verses even drop the term born of God to point to this.