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Everything posted by mordorbund

  1. mordorbund


    $6Million!!!!!??? Count me in!!!! Oh. Only $4.2 million. Well nevermind then.
  2. mordorbund

    Alma 30:7-11

    Is this about that Sunday I got a hole in one?
  3. mordorbund

    Eternity, infinity, and limits

    That's the standard mapping for it. Guess what that means for the following scenario: stand in a regularly ordered grid of 1-D trees that extends in the plane, with each tree placed some unit length along two axes (glad @zil isn't around to read this), and then point your 0-D laser out into the woods. Will your laser hit a tree?
  4. mordorbund

    Eternity, infinity, and limits

    I'm not sure what you mean by [infinity]n, so I'm going to propose a few models and we can discuss them. Usually when we talk about different infinities we are talking about the cardinalities of some infinite set. We start with all Natural numbers [1, 2, 3, ...] and we know there's infinitely many of them [inf]Nat. We compare that against a set that only contains even numbers [2, 4, 6, ...] and our instincts say this should have 1/2 the cardinality of [inf]Nat, but it turns out that for every element in [inf]Nat there's a matching element in [inf]Even.[inf]Even[k] = 2*[inf]Nat[k]. So the cardinalities are exactly the same. This is expressed as Aleph0. (Hebrew - for when your math exceeds Greek notation). Similarly, sets of odds, squares, and primes all have this same cardinality. Even the set of all rationals (Natural + fractions) have this same cardinality. It's all Aleph0. The set of all irrationals, on the other hand, does not map back to the set of Natural numbers so it has a different Aleph (I couldn't tell you what it is, as I've reached the limit of my knowledge on this subject) as does the set of all Reals which subsumes it. A models come from this knowledge. First, we can say that when you say infinity you really mean Aleph0, infiinity2 is Aleph1, and so on. In this case I'm not sure what infiintyinfinity means. This model suggests that Telestial progress is unbounded as far as formal limits go, but vastly smaller than any others. I'm unfamiliar with other Alephs so I can't add anything further here. Second, we could say that when you say infinity, you mean the infinity of a specific infinite set. We'll say that's [inf]Even and infiinty2 is [inf]Nat and infinity3 is [inf]Rational.Additionally, we'll say infinityinfinity is [inf]Real. Again, the implication is that Telestial progress is infinite, but now each kingdom's elements (or experiences, or achievements, or glory) is a subset of the kingdom above it. Additionally, this shows some commonality between the first three (all are countably infinite) and a special state of the highest degree (uncountably infinite). If you want to bring immortality and eternal life into the discussion it would work well. An additional implication is that the lower kingdoms move "faster" than the higher. The kth even element when charted on a number line is farther along than the kth natural which is farther along than the kth rational and so on. You can tease some meaning out of that, but don't know how relevant it would be. A third way we could view it (similar to the 2nd in implications) that lines up more with what you cited to McConkie is to use a number graph. Every degree adds another axis. The x-axis (Telestial) progresses infinitely, and go move along however fast or slow you want it to. But it never enters the y-axis (Terrestrial). y=0. Always. But that's okay, because x- knows nothing of y. A 2-D graph is quite literally infinity2 so it matches up with your naming convention. The Celestial then is 3-D. The advantage of this model is that it's probably more approachable to the (mathematically) lay person than the others. For the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom I would perhaps model it as having Dimensions upon Dimensions added upon it because, as God offers another Dimension the Celestial person never says no. The next 2 don't apply to your model but I mention them just for completion. A fourth way that your modeling is contrasting (but which I'm going to include since that's the one sometimes used for this discussion so it gives a baseline to the discussion) is asymptotic progression. In this one you can view the positive quadrant for and then just change that first 1 value for Kingdom Max. The first 3 all have some max that is ever approached but never reached, while Exaltation is not asymptotic. A fifth model which this stands in contrast with is the one that seems to come to mind simply because of math ignorance. It has Telestial = x, Terrestrial = x2, and Celestial = x3, (and maybe Exaltation is nx?). These are unbounded, but their differences are simply the rate of progression.
  5. mordorbund

    Resurrection Question

    Similar to @estradling75's Pauline analysis, Jacob reminds us that we are under the Adamic curse. Physical death will have to be overcome before a proper judgment can occur (on the merits of the individual and the grace of Christ).,9?lang=eng&clang=eng#p8,9
  6. mordorbund

    If you inherited 5 million dollars

    The Queen's.
  7. mordorbund

    Testimony of the 3 witnesses

    Back in verse 3 the Lord reminded Joseph of the covenant he made not to show the gold plates to anyone except those whom the Lord designated. Here the Lord says there are 3 witnesses whose testimonies will go forth with the text of the Book of Mormon. You can read about their experience here. In addition to these 3 witnesses, there were another 8 chosen to see the plates and their experience is recorded here.
  8. mordorbund

    I apologize

    Challenge accepted.
  9. mordorbund

    nothing and everything

    So long as we're dealing with soteriological hypotheticals: Did Hitler increase his chances for salvation by being the guy that killed Hitler?
  10. mordorbund

    Book of Mormon white supremacy??

    Mormon's account of the Amlicites suggests to me that even Mormon might not have fully understood the nature of the mark. To a person 400 years removed from the free mingling of a "remnant" society (when it didn't matter if you were Lamanite or Nephite by lineage - if you're alive you're part of the new society), the difference between the two Sneetch tribes is forehead paint. ? ? ? In contrast, the more contemporary accounts that we have from Nephi and Jacob use the stronger language and make it sound like the only way a Nephite would receive the Lamanite curse and accompanying mark is to have children with them, and more specifically the curse is on those children (see 2 Nephi 5).
  11. mordorbund

    Temples And Protection

    Not necessarily to serve in the Temple, but Melchizedek and Jethro are both described as priests outside of the Levitical order. Come to think of it, Catholics have priests who aren't associated with the Temple. And correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think they're required to prove Aaronic descent.
  12. mordorbund


    @Jamie123 Thanks for participating in this thread. I know we have some people on this board who are friendlier towards socialism than I am and who support Bernie Sanders' democratic socialism. This question is directed to them: Do you agree with Traveler's definition of what socialism is?
  13. mordorbund

    Salt Lake Temple Capstone Opened

    Fun fact: when the Jerusalem temple is finally built Satan will be bound in the cornerstone. Then 1000 years later when the temple needs renovation curious saints will open the cornerstone and loose him.
  14. mordorbund

    Bull-crap Indoctrination about Bull-crap.

    That's why humans extincted them so hard.
  15. mordorbund

    Salt Lake Temple Capstone Opened

    Yes, the video says the photographs of Joseph and Hyrum are damaged beyond repair, but they are not the originals.
  16. mordorbund

    Stopping COVID

    How will the vaccine help? My understanding based on the "flatten the curve" models I've looked at is that the assumption is that a supermajority of the population will get it. From there, there's basically 3 groups: those who will die regardless, those who can recover on their own, and those who will die unless they get professional medical assistance. The idea behind flattening the curve was to try to minimize deaths among the third group by ensuring availability of hospital beds. If we had a vaccine today (or even 3 months ago), how much does that change the grouping? Will that make it so that enough people move from group 3 to group 1 that we no longer worry about group 2 overwhelming the hospitals and preventing group 3 from receiving life-saving care? Or would that mean that we would still try to flatten the curve, but we would be a full one or two phases further along?
  17. mordorbund

    A message to Shania Twain...

    Gotta say, I like this rebranding and hope it becomes more popular than the official one. Lady A********* had better take notice.
  18. mordorbund


    This is what got me thinking on the idea: It's part of an essay B.H. Roberts wrote in the introduction of History of the Church, vol. 4. It would give cities more power within their states, and possibly on the national level, but would separate their interests from the rest of the state.
  19. mordorbund

    Temples And Protection

    Thanks for engaging. It sounds to me like Roman Catholics acknowledge that some of the principles taught through temple worship (such as the atoning death of the Messiah) continued to be taught but now used different symbols. Additionally, some forms of worship that revolved around the temple and feast day sabbaths were "democratized" (there's probably a better word for it) into local community worship. John recognized the messianic symbolism of the Paschal meal, but Christ introduced the Lord's Supper for remembrance. On top of that, those things that survived the transition from the Law of Moses (specifically priesthood) carried over some of the liturgical practices and symbols. But even in this case, some were modified to reflect the new covenant. Please let me know if I've gotten anything wrong. For Latter-day Saints, we believe that many of the principles taught in the temple continue to be taught. Some of these principles (such as the atoning death of the Messiah, man's ascent through grace, and the return to God's presence) continue to be taught in modern temples but use different physical symbols. Some temple practices have been democratized so more of the community may participate (as you noted with women participating in the ordinance alongside those with the Melchizedek priesthood) and so that they may be performed within the community (such as the sacrament example used above and our solemn assemblies). Some symbols still carried over (for instance, some of our temples have a holy of holies apart from the celestial room) but even in this case, they have been modified to reflect the new covenant (others may enter the holy of holies, but it will only be under the direction of the presiding high priest). Additionally we have other practices that have been restored that have been placed under the umbrella of temple worship. For example, we perform baptisms for the dead in the temple because we have a revelation specifically telling us that it should be performed in the temple. The revelation notes that if the saints are too poor to have a temple then they may perform it elsewhere. We find mention of baptisms for the dead in the New Testament and suppose that the former saints had this practice. I don't think anyone claims that it was ever performed in the Jerusalem temple, and if you'd like we can discuss that as a follow up. I may be in the minority here, but I think some elements of our temple worship are original to our day but still rightfully belong in the temple. That is, even if we had all the secret records and the oral traditions of the Jerusalem temple we still wouldn't find these practices. The Nauvoo temple was built so the Lord could "reveal unto my church things which have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world, things that pertain to the dispensation of the fulness of times." Because we don't have a closed canon, modern deuteronomists can update temple worship practice in accordance with the Lord's authority and revelation. Hope this helps.
  20. mordorbund


    What do you think about granting city-state status to cities that grow sufficiently large? Give them their own electoral votes separate from the rest of the state, and their own Representatives but maybe no Senators (consistent with today)?
  21. mordorbund

    Police Reform

    1. I appreciate that this is getting done on the local level instead of the state or national. Let them try it and if it works let others adopt it. If it doesn't then the damage is relatively small. 2. Sounds like they're trying to split police work into violent and non-violent work. I'd like to hear from @mirkwood how reasonable is the assumption that a routine traffic stop only ends with a ticket or a warning, and how often does it include an arrest from outstanding warrants, or conflict escalation, or some other thing. 3. Something I learned from when my wife was on the HOA board: People want the problem solved - as long as you're the one solving it. Put it back on them and they don't complain as loud (or they rise to the challenge and everyone wins). In an effort to include local policing that represents the community, your senior year of high school you are paired up with experienced LEO to police your neighborhood.
  22. mordorbund

    What’s the last movie you watched?

    Full disclosure, MG is a huge Shaq fan so that's probably why he's raving.
  23. mordorbund

    Temples And Protection

    Interesting. So pre-Christian served as a template to symbolically show the faithful their source for redemption. Do I have that right? Did early Christians have their own symbols, rituals, or practices to point to the first advent of the sinless Lamb of God? Were prayer and praising God* part of pre-Christian temple worship? Why do you suppose that continued, and sacrifice did not? I see you identify as Catholic (I'm assuming Roman, but regardless) - part of the pre-Christian temple ritual included washing, anointing, and investiture of priests (not just high priests, but priests) as well as kings. Did any of these practices continue? What about the principles (if any) behind the practice? *I excluded evangelism because I figured it probably wasn't part of pre-Christian temple practice, but you note that there was a place for the gentiles to gather so you can feel free to include that in your response.
  24. mordorbund

    The "Say Nice Things About America" Thread

    The American flag is a talisman that converts people to conservatism. a brief exposure to an image of,study just published in the scholarly Psychological Science.