curiousheathen

Oh I didn't mean to imply unintelligence. I meant to imply satisfaction; seems I failed at that. My apologies. And what you said is essentially what I meant.

Honestly, that is quite possible. I just have always tried avoid judging others as jack-Mormon or not (since I'm not one and it doesn't seem fair). If I'm not trying to be polite I'd venture to say for the most part it is the jack Mormons that say that, and that it never really crosses the minds of the more devout of my LDS friends and family (or they are happy with the answers they've gotten).

No it doesn't. I appreciate you taking the time to address this. I've learned not to allow one person to color my opinions of a group (I happen to like and respect many of you on here; I really do like hearing what you have to say, and it has helped me to understand my Mormon friends that much better). I have many Mormon friends who have discussed their fears of questioning. Many of them tell me they have been taught not to question, and this has always been such a foreign concept to me. I can respect it, but I don't think I'll ever understand.

I am not quite sure why I'm not being compared to Hitler with my post? I'm not communist, fascist, or out to kill millions of people different than myself. I don't make assumptions about what anyone's children ought to be reading, and I have never read Mein Kamf nor have any desire to (except Lord of the Rings; everybody should read that). I will make no comments as to the divinely inspired religious comment, as it is not my place to judge this sort of thing, and I wish to offend no one with what my beliefs may or may not be in regards to that. As I have said, I meant no disrespect, but it is often helpful to step back and take a look at the image you are portraying and how people are responding to you. It can be insightful and helpful. I have also noted that there is a big difference between a question and an attack (or an attack in the guise of a question), and the latter is never appropriate. I can see that non-Mormon sentiments are not welcome in this thread, so I will politely bow out and apologize for offense.

Unfortunately society and culture are linked...you can't really have one sort of questioning and upheaval and not have the other. After all, you guys banned black men from getting the priesthood for awhile. Took some society upheaval for it to final make an impact religiously. Maybe it is because I am not Mormon, but I have seen many people discourage questioning, though I can't site a specific reference. It's mostly the attitude, which is partly what gives you guys that reputation (I mean no offense honestly, just giving some input into how Mormons tend to be viewed by non-Mormons in my area). I think the closest I can come to an example is the thread about reading anti-Mormon literature. This brings up the question I asked in another post...what kind of faith (and in this case religion) is so weak that a question can tear it down or make it somehow false? That said, arguing for the sake of arguing is rude and usually pointless. Questioning is never wrong (but I'm horribly post modernist and not LDS so my opinion probably doesn't matter tooooo much. )

That's sort of depressing, Garryw, and I'm not even Mormon. Divorce sucks- and I've been through three-ish: my mother divorced my biological father for beating her and me, and threatening to kill us and bury us in the mountains (try explaining that to a too-smart six year old), then divorced my stepdad due to addiction (they later got back together still considering their marriage valid because they are Catholic and never had the church do anything about it, split up again, and got back together again and have been ever sense). Divorce is never good, and it's never easy, even if in some cases it is the right thing to do. Marriages break up for an infinite number of reasons, and they aren't limited to religion (I know as many divorced Mormons as Catholics and Wiccans). I'm no expert to comment on that. Someone is always hurt during the divorce process, no matter how healthy it may be. God did not not answer your prayers--he already knew what was best for you. Perhaps your negative mindset had some impact on your relationship, but it truly is not my place to comment. In my opinion divorce happens because people grow and change over time, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. My religion's view on divorce is simply that we don't have one. Essentially, pagans seek harmony and reconciliation- for us too, marriage is a vow, an eternal thing, a serious thing that should not be terminated nor rushed into on a whim. If someone feels they need to part, let it be in peace and with good health, and no negativity or grudge holding. I'm a child of divorce, and I've seen the good and the bad because of it.

I was talking with my fiance about this...I think this question can apply to anyone regardless of religion, and I think it's a good question to ask. I found conclusive evidence (albeit not factual in the strictest sense but personal gnosis later reinforced by fact) that the Catholic church was not true, and eventually became Pagan. My fiance often said he believed the church was true- until he read some literature (which I won't post because I don't want to offend anyone) and started really digging in to things he had issues with. My view is this-- what kind of faith is so weak that questioning it can take it away? What strength is there in a religion that questioning can break it down? I question my faith everyday. I ask deep probing questions and I don't always like the answers I get. I continually reevaluate my position in compliance with both fact and personal gnosis (or personal revelation if you will) and my faith is only reinforced. So for my fiance it pretty much was a wake up one day and realize the church isn't true sort of thing. He's currently a gnostic pagan. *more random and unsolicited opinions from the peanut section*

As a non-Mormon baptisms for the dead are one of the most offensive things to me. I would be equally offended by the Muslims doing something similar, as I also would find it offensive if my fellow Pagans started going around doing the same thing. I know this was specifically for Mormons, but sometimes non-Mormon insight can be helpful. I'd be happy to explain via pm or whatever to avoid derailing the convo if anyone wants to know why.

Thanks for the replies guys.

So I had an interesting experience last night, and thought I would address it with you guys to see if this a Mormon-general-thing or a regional/cultural thing. My religion has what we call the 9 Noble Virtues. One of these virtues is hospitality. My fiance and I strive to be the best hosts we can. We welcome each guest, immediately ask them to sit, see if they need a drink or something to eat and engage them in conversation and to see how they've been doing. I am told so often that my small home makes everyone feel welcome, that it is always bright, cheerful, just home-y I guess, and that they never feel crowded. We are religiously and culturally motivated to show our appreciation for our guests by being the most gracious hosts we can. We have only a few rules for guests: don't take the last of something without asking, but everything else is fair game, and don't slam doors. Both of our families have always been hospitable. So last night an old friend (acquaintance really) who I've stayed in contact with since high school and visited off and on over the years sent me and email telling me she was worried she'd offended me and all sorts of things since I never visited or accepted invitations anymore. I emailed her back letting her know that reason for my declines were largely that she continually invited my ex boyfriend (and I would view putting my fiance and an ex who asked me to marry him in the same room would be totally rude and cruel), and that I'm just really busy. So we make plans to visit last night. This is where the hospitality question comes in: not once did she ask if we wanted a drink or a place to sit. Not once did she ask how our lives had been going. She didn't walk us to the door when we left, nothing. It felt very awkward (which it never has before) and crowded. Her house had no pictures or decor of any kind except for one portrait of Jesus (the one that a lot of LDS families seem to hang on the wall). Now in my experience, most people in this area follow basic rules of hospitality. You make sure your guests are comfortable, make sure they don't need anything, etc. We felt that they were rather poor hosts, and they didn't even respond when we thanked them for a great evening. This has happened when I've visited other strong LDS homes (though I've visited some that were warm and welcoming too, so I don't mean to sound as if I'm bashing you guys or anything, that's definitely not my intent!). What are the Mormon views on hospitality? Is it religiously encouraged or one of those depends-on-the-area things?

I actually really hate the Thor comics and the movie...maybe it's just because I'm a mythology junkie and find it kind of offensive...my fiance is Norse Pagan and we get kinda touchy about movies like this. I'm looking forward to Atlas Shrugged myself. Anyone read the book? I loved it as a kid.

It really doesn't differentiate much honestly. It has a slightly New Age connotation, so many Pagans choose not to use the term so they don't associate with New Age.

I don't think I've ever posted, mostly because I don't want to offend anyone. I am an ex-Catholic (a no-hard-feelings ex-Catholic), and I am a Pagan (also known as Neo-Pagan or Heathen, but I don't personally care for the term).

You don't offend, don't worry. I know it may seem strange but the response I got was that the god of the Christians (and specifically that the BoM is not true) is not my god. I am meant to walk a different path, does that make sense? So while your religion is not true or right for me, I can respect that it is true and right for you. That horribly post-modernist, doesn't it? I hope that helps clarify, but I don't want to drag the thread off topic or anything. :)

I've always had lucid dreams since I can remember. For as superstitious and metaphysical I can be I've never ascribed any special meaning to them.

Just thought I'd offer up my experience here as both a non-Christian and non-LDS. I prayed about the Catholic church (raised Catholic, attended Catholic school) and was given a resounding "no, this is not where you belong." The same thing happened when I prayed about the BoM and the LDS church. I got a resounding "No, it's not where you belong; it's not truth." I've been told a few times that this was either a) I wasn't ready to hear the truth (or that I was deluding myself) and b) Satan is just telling this to you. It's difficult I think to understand why someone could pray about the same thing as you and get a completely different answer, especially when it's something you hold very true and dear to your heart.

As an off topic but an experience with LDS woman: I was in full Victorian-goth garb (usual daily wear for me) and I was getting all these dirty looks. This awesome old lady comes up to me and says, "I wish I were young enough to pull this off! Keep it up!"

That's actually an interesting approach guys. I never really thought of it as something informative or interesting. By and large I've always found most LDS to be a really tolerant and respectful group of people, and you guys are def. both of those. :) Thx!

And just as a note: there are plenty of Christian goths. Being gothic in and of itself is not part of being "troubled". Goth is a fashion statement. However if the group he belonged to called themselves "goth" and also used drugs or anything else, goth may be seen as encouraging and those types of activities as part of it. Other than that, take everyone's advice here. Sorry for your sister.

Thanks you guys. I had my fiance read the thread, and he still doesn't think it's all that necessary, but has said it wouldn't bother him if we did explain things. :)

Well Asatru are incorrectly associated with Odinism (which is something Asatru are used to, but it's still irritating to most of them); they are two very different things, but that's a discussion for another forum I think, and not here. :) The interlocking triangles is a symbol of Odin, used both by white supremacists and Asatru. I find it rather petty that the marriage of a family member could be seen as an affront to everything his family may or may not believe in....I guess I would say that if that is how they want to perceive it, we're fine without them being involved. If you want to know about Asatru, as opposed to Odinism, visit asatru.org or pick up Essential Asatru by Diana Paxson and Isaac Bonewits (not trying to proselytize or anything, just providing a source for more info). Thanks for the help again ladies and gents. :)

LOL thanks for the laugh, findingmyway.

Our immediate families (moms, dads, siblings) are mostly aware and supportive. I say mostly because we are very private and subtle, and our wedding will have that same subtle texture, I guess. His family.....they run the gamut from extremely conservative LDS (as Mightynancy mentioned they don't let their kids read HP) to Jack Mormon, where they would probably care less. The extremely conservative members include his favorite grandmother and several cousins he grew up with and are the ones I'm most concerned about. I'm definitely thinking that whether I need to explain a little bit or not it's the best course of action, that way no one has to feel uncomfortable about not wanting to attend. I know that in general LDS are some of the most open-minded Christians I've ever encountered, and my LDS friends are all for it (but they fall to the moderate side of the spectrum). Thank you again for your help and advice. Ya'll are wonderful.

Thanks for the replies. I do think he thinks I'm trying to justify the decision, which I don't think I am. We're not deviating from the "standard" patterns of things too much honestly, just a few touches here and there. And no, it's not a white supremacist thing lol. Thanks again. I'm definitely going to give a little bit of explanation about what they can expect, and where to go for more information.

Hi guys, back for another question for you. As you know, I'm not LDS and neither is my fiance (just noticed I'm listed as married on my profile lol didn't mean to select that). Most of his family is LDS, and most of mine is Catholic, with a few other religions thrown in. My fiance and I are getting married next year, but I'm a bit torn with how to approach an issue he really isn't concerned about. We're going to have a pagan handfasting, officiated by either UU minister or an Asatru officiant. We are not doing anything except evoking our deities, tying the cords around our wrists, and jumping a broom (we're also doing a theme wedding, so these things may mostly be overlooked). It is the evoking of deities that has me most concerned. I feel like I should explain a bit about what people should expect, my fiance doesn't think it's necessary. I care deeply about our families, and I don't want them to be uncomfortable. I feel they should know the basics of what handfasting is, what we're going to be doing, and decide for themselves whether or not to attend. My fiance says no other religion has to explain what their weddings are all about, and neither should we. He says the wedding is all about us, and our immediate families are supportive. Would Mormons feel uncomfortable attending a pagan wedding (one that they wouldn't have to participate in anything)? Would you like to be briefed on the basics of what to expect, especially if it's a religion you're unfamiliar with? Thanks a lot! CH