Bob_oz

Hi Monica, personally I appreciate your comment in these threads, your faith and appreciation of the scriptures is a standard to us all, I for one know I for one would be well served by a better understanding of the standard works. There will not be an understanding or agreement on or of what the Lord has provided for us in this life, if there was there would be no need for faith and trust and endurance. If science was seen to up hold God there would be less need for faith. The debate as we see here will rage till the Lord returns and even then? The mind of men and women will be shaped by knowledge, understanding, faith, anger, revenge, pride etc. Bob

Hi Maureen and thanks for the links you posted I will get to them as time permit and I appreciate the post Bob

Today I was reading from a site called Biblestudy.org an article regarding the content and many versions of the Bible translations, I think its worth a read. If anyone is aware of any denomination affiliation of those who run Biblestudy.org I'd be interested to know. The article seems to me to indicate that over time and the translations, elements of the teachings contained in the original text have changed and/or the meaning changed and that depending on the Bible version adopted by a denomination or individual so the goes the teaching. http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/kjverror.html Just a thought Bob

Well Jason you must do as you must do and yes an opposition either strengthens or breaks down so you are fulfilling a purpose. I have always smiled when people state the facts; science not so long ago stated the fact that the world was flat, sail too far, fall off the edge! Today learned man tells use "we know" as the facts for so much of life when I am sure that in a few hundred years time knowledgeable people will look back and say how blind were they at the turn of the millennium! But there again perception is fact for the one who perceives. I don't find I am bored with learning but I am bored with conflict for conflicts sake.

Thank you “Outshined” for the defense of my character in my absence, the time differences mean I can’t be here when such comments are made, not that I would be sitting here waiting for them. Jason I didn’t start this thread with a lie but with a quote and as “Outshined” has shown there is more than one to be found, also, it was presented to demonstrate that some elements of Christianity have/are making some pretty specific changes away from the Bible and I was wondering if others here were aware of similar approaches in the world. I accept that the Pope has not made the statement but I think you must agree it’s not just “a stake president” making a statement but a rather large chunk of the RC church who not acting alone but as an authorized part of the whole. I would also point out that you are quick to select and quote from individuals who support your views against the Church but attack me when I make a quote and ask a simple question! Again I return to my original post: “and I am wondering if other denominations have indicated a change of view toward Bible content, I understand that the RC view is where science "discredits" Bible teachings, for example the first 11 chapters of Genesis, that homosexualality is not a sin, etc” I find that I hear almost weekly of the denomination or that changing the “rules” and I ask in all honesty are there parts of the Bible no longer accepted? Bob.

Today I was reading that the RC church announced late last year: "THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true" and I am wondering if other denominations have indicated a change of view toward Bible content, I understand that the RC view is where science "discredits" Bible teachings, for example the first 11 chapters of Genesis, that homosexualality is not a sin, etc. Regards Bob

one thing i have found...very difficult to attend while traveling with young children. most temples do not have a nursery. since my wife and i do not like to attend seperately for each other, i have found if you call some temples, like nuacoo, they now the name of someone local who will babysit. or if you find out the Young Women's presidency, they usually know someone. Some will charge, as this is what they do for extra money, others will do for free, but usually try to give at least a 20 for a half day. most refuse. this sometimes may take 2-3 weeks advance planning to make the necessary contacts. Miztrniceguy We found in the past the same sort of issue with the family, added to that we have a 2 hour flight to Sydney and 1 hour flight to Melbourne, we use Sydney because accomodation is better.cheaper/closer and we go for 4 - 5 days work at the temple normally 4 sessions a day, our focus being on the Temple. Over the years we have not been able to afford it as often as we like but the children are no longer an issue and we get there more often now, sometimes business gets me there alone, other times my wife will take a week off and go but mostly we go together, either way its the most special of times. Bob

I'd like to add my thanks to this comment and for all the efforts Heather and the Mods put in, I once helped friends by looking after a board while they went on vacation, so much work! I have to once more demonstrate my ignorance, there are a number of things I don't know how to do, for example: How does PM's work? How do I gain access to the secure fourm? Where and how do I find answers to other questions I may have from time to time like these? Thanks for your help Bob

My thanks for posting the “Rules” again. I have to say that I joined this board for good positive LDS discussion and frankly I find that although in general the thoughts are good the over riding theme is not proactive in the LDS domain but in the LDS defending the faith. I am challenged to see the number of posts that are negative toward the LDS teachings, the number of times the LDS leadership both past and present are addressed in a less than kind or respectful manner, I find referring to the Prophet of the restoration as “Smith” as insulting, but that is just me. I am disappointed at those who state they are “LDS” and then by their actions are only here to attack the Church and its members and yes it’s still an attack no matter how subtle the comment tries to be. Frankly there is false representation all too much. It has been remarked that there is limitations placed on discussions and that is limiting the free flow of comment and hence the number of participants, frankly I think there are a lot of LDS who would love a place to get right into good gospel discussions designed to enlighten, build up and strengthen but we know that most of the posts are ruled by the antagonists who for a range of reasons are not looking to build up but to break down. In this thread alone we see some pointers, Serg, who lists himself as LDS but over recent days has started to come out and tell us how much he is opposed to the Church makes this comment “There is the same commitment in exmormons to tell the TRUTH to their still mormon brethren, just as mormons have it to convince christians how apostate they are.” Do you regard yourself as an exmormon here to tell the TRUTH to the LDS here? And what is the truth you speak of? Your mindset for things you either choose to object to or don’t understand or cannot exercise faith in? I would be interested to know if there are teachings in the Church you do have a testimony of? As for Jason, well I actually respect you for your honesty, knowledge and character and that you admit to being here to have fun, I just think it an incredible shame that you cannot put all that you have and all that you are to better use. I can see that “sqallan” is known better by long term members than I but I just do not comprehend why he would make 1235 posts in a group he has no interest in if not as some form of sport or cyber debating society and absolutely no interest in the objectives of the board. We have mentioned others who come in, start a thread, post six times stating honest challenges and a desire for help only to demonstrate later a clear pre-mind set that is darn near Anti! And good caring people waste time trying to help, the rest of us waste time reading and we find the number of posts is down! In the main I find the comments here are pretty good, too much them and us (who ever us may be) and the people good and considerate with a desire to learn. If any one takes offence at what I have said I regret it but seeing the discussion was rolling I thought I had to put in. As in all matters I relate my comments from my own perception and as a mere mortal greatly subject to error. Have a great Sabbath Bob

London, endowed New Zealand, married Sydney Perth L A S L C Hawaii

Outstanding views from both the Captain and PC, thank you. I have to say in recent days I have been a little disappointed at some very Anti-LDS comments and also some bigoted member comments on here (at least that is how I perceived it). and I have wondered if i really want to be involved. On the up side there are some very good people here too. Bob

Some times I think we need to consider the reason a member starts a thread and try to restrain our human desires to stand on the high ground launching personal anti-non-LDS or anti-LDS rhetoric. Its not a Christlike attribute and far from the purpose of this group. I have to say for myself that too often we do not demonstrate the principle of love one to another (including me). If you follow the posts you will see that "Church" is not the only issue this couple have and attacking one anothers beliefs/conduct does little to help our sister. I will now relinquish the high ground as I am sure some feel I need a mirror. (sorry mine are all cracked!) With love Bob

One element that I feel is worth highlighting in this thread is Covenant. Temple Sealing (unlike life marriage) in the form of the marriage of two living individuals is an Eternal Covenant that reflect the great importance God places on Family. There is a reluctance to cut these ties. At the same time, in wisdom, the opportunity is given for all Gods sons and daughters (by starting again) to make and keep these covernants that have such meaning for the eternities. Indeed no matter the changes that are made due to divorce as a covenant is involved there will also be an accounting in the eternities. I know that the God has all things in hand, that He is perfect in His dealings with His children and will deny us no blessing if we are worthy. Bob

Hi Steflou, Well that is good news that you have sound support and staying strong, your example of true values, love, understanding, concern and compassion will go a lot further to reaching your husbands heart than any discussion on right and wrong. The thing now is to build communication between the two of you and it appears from what you have said that its going to fall to you to encourage such communication. Frankly I would think he has other concerns than just the Church, I imagine he is not really a jerk and that there are other issues to be discussed, firstly from his side so you know the whole picture, do you feel this open and frank discussion is possible? It seems that your children are pretty normal, at 17 he wants to spread his wings and what ever he does now is his choice, again consistant example is your tool and faith that he will be ok, in the end he is accountable for his own actions and that is how it should be, but he is not the issue is he. The relationship is the issue and you have some deep inner searching to do as to your future and the future of the relationship, whatever you decided should only come after talking with him calmly with a prayer in your heart for guidence, there are miracles happening all the time so if there is still room don't give you. Again, obtain good counsel you can trust, your Bishop would be my first choice, beware of do-gooders no matter how well meaning. All the very best Bob

WOW! The big single I see on this topic is that the world changes by the example of the few (stars, media etc) and its this change in standards that ever so slowly takes us away from the Gospel and God. If I had not the Gospel would I marry, frankly, most likely not because its socially acceptable not to, actually its financially benifial sometime not to! I always find Lindy's comments very sound but I also find Monica very knowligable. When we consider the individual the Lord expects us to not Judge others, of course we make judgements all the time do I want my children reading this seeing that etc, but the gospel is a wonderful blend of doing your very best and at the same time forgiving the limitations of others. But when the actions of the few set the tone for the many there comes the issue of the bigger picture, I feel Monica has the big picture pretty well understood, who and what do we stand for? There are I am sure many others who are lesser lights doing wonderful works from their high station in life but then take a stand on something that offends us, we need to make a stand against the sin and not the sinner for we can be sure that in the end as they influance others so will they be accountable to the Lord. Bob