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jlf9999

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Everything posted by jlf9999

  1. jlf9999
    I would think he has been talking to the missionaries.:)
  2. jlf9999
    This lady says she isn't bitter. OK. I will accept that. However the whole Catholic thing has so much history that confuses me, I suppose you have to be born Catholic to understand the nuances that I don't seem able to appreciate. Anyway, good discussion Jason.
  3. jlf9999
    When we get to the point where we start looking outside the scriptures for secondary sources we are walking on uneven ground. It is certainly interesting but I can't think that they are more helpful that prayerful reading of the canon. I read these other sources too. But I love the bible and Book of Mormon and others more. I just wonder if Soninme opens his heart to the promptings of the Holy Ghost when he reads scripture. I asked one guy that question and he whipped back that he was inspired that the Church was evil. So I can't say which spirit he was listening too.
  4. jlf9999
    You sound bitter. If so, why are you here talking with Mormons?
  5. jlf9999
    Madeleine What I was asking for was how responders would react and what they would say to an LDS relative. In your case, if your LDS cousin calls you on the phone and wants some information about great aunt Sally so he could do temple work on her behalf you would tell him no. You would say it is because you think Mormonism is occult, evil and disturbs the dead. Is that correct? I do not want to put words in your mouth. I just want to get a feel for what others would say. I accept that you and others have no faith in the doctrine.
  6. jlf9999
    Do not invite the presence of any spirit in your life. They have a habit of not going away. You don't know what you are getting into or who will be your next visitor. And, by the way, they are in spirit prison and seek to deceive. Any sort of divination or witchcraft or taro cards, Ouija board or occult type activity is inviting such connections.
  7. jlf9999
    madeleine Many churches look for connections to the dead. The Catholics are right at the top with all their saints who are supposed to intercede on someone's behalf. It seems that Christ is not good enough. So I hope you can see that Mormons look upon your complaints about what you think you understand in our temple worship as a bit disingenuous. The veil can be thin at times and not just for Mormons. I could find many Catholic practices that seem un-Christian, at least to my eyes, but I recognize that is your business. Seeking to understand does not mean accepting. That is why I asked the original question. It has to do with understanding not accepting and wanting to connect with another person rather than disconnecting.
  8. jlf9999
    I can't image why you would still not understand that Christ was acting on behalf of the Father in whom all things are made. Look at it like a partnership in which the junior partner has the authority to speak on behalf of the senior partner and in fact speak as though he was the senior. However, the senior has tasked the junior partner with the job of actually doing all the creating. When the junior partner speaks he is speaking as though he was the senior. The relationship is so tight that one knows what the other is doing, thinking and saying. The Father provides the authority and direction and the Son does the work. Did not Christ say He has done nothing that he has not seen His father do? I think you can only take that to mean one thing: The Father showed the Son. Sometimes we forget that translation into English likely left out some important elements that would help us understand better. The original was in Hebrew and Aramaic and then it was translated into Latin and from there into English so don't feel like the lone stranger. Personally, I think God knew we would have to go back to Him for help in understanding the nuances and other major things too. The Book of Mormon prophets kept a second record that helps us understand. The confusion comes form rejecting the Book of Mormon. With it, it all is clearer.
  9. jlf9999
    It isn't as far as I know. Maybe there is something else. Who knows. But I never heard anyone say sex was bad. The when, where and with whom is the issue. Who told you sex was bad?
  10. jlf9999
    The undeniable biological truth is that sexual desire is hormonal which is not love. Love transcends the veil. Sexual desire does not. Hormones are an earthly thing. As we age our early fascination with sexual motivation diminishes, at least in healthy people. It doesn't go away entirely but it very definitely lessens - a lot. Now, in a Celestial setting, I would not be surprised if there is a lot we do not know. :) For anyone looking for some justification for homosexuality, which is where this discussion seems headed, that dog won't hunt.
  11. jlf9999
    Sometimes you do not have a choice. If you are doing shift work for example or work for an employer who is open 24x7 you may have to adjust. That doesn't mean you are in jeopardy or your membership is in question. Just remember that sometimes such "exceptions" can be habit forming. Go to work and do your best but remember whose day it is and why it is set aside.
  12. jlf9999
    So your are OK with your extended family doing vicarious temple work for mutual family members? It does not create a rift in your family?
  13. jlf9999
    We worship God the Father through Jesus Christ but that does not mean we do not worship Him as well. He is the Son of God, our Redeemer and through which, no one can return to The Father. Christ created the world at the direction of The Father. That is what our Sacrament service is all about. He is the Eternal God. Of course we worship Him. Soninme, you touch on an interesting subject. We are sometimes pulled up short because some think we spend too much time on subjects other than Christ. We do have a wide variety of important subjects to talk about that is for sure. The question is often asked who we think Jesus Christ is and is our Jesus a different Jesus than traditional Christians believe in. John Walsh, an LDS apologist and BYU professor, has an interesting comment about that. You can read his thinking on the subject at Do you believe in a different Jesus?. It is brief but pretty well bottom-lines it. Welsh is one of the writers many of us trust to help us digest complex issues.
  14. jlf9999
    How would such a request be received? Would it create dissension in the family between you and your LDS cousin?
  15. jlf9999
    I am sorry Maureen but that makes no sense, at least to me. Either there are three members of the God head or there is but one - and I think that is the conundrum. It seems to me that the Trinitarian concept is based solely on tradition not scripture. The sole scripture Trinitarians use (I am sure you can provide it) to bolster their belief is countered by many others that counter it.
  16. jlf9999
    And that wish would be honored. However, that was not the question.
  17. jlf9999
    By the way, do you Maureen and you Soninme have any heart burn with LDS people doing temple work for our mutual relatives? I accept that you have a different view of the worth of the work, but how do you or would you view it in your extended family if LDS cousin Eddy asked for data so he could submit great aunt Edna's or great grandpa Bill's names - or even if you were not asked or data. Do you know enough about what we do to have an informed opinion? I ask because I do a lot of this work and like everyone else, have relatives who are not LDS. So far I have had no trouble but I would like to know how a wider group of people view this.
  18. jlf9999
    There is no doubt. We worship God the Father through Jesus Christ. Christ is the conduit. That is LDS doctrine. As regards our relationship to God, yes we believe we are genetically similar just as my physical body is similar genetically with my earthly parents. I could not say we understand the genetics, if that is the right term, but I think you get the point. We do not lower God to our level, we elevate man to God's level - at least we have potential to be raised to His level. Maureen, you said "For a trinitarian the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are distinct persons but they are one Being, meaning they are one God.". Does that not make you polytheists too? That is the problem many outsiders have with us. I suppose it depends on which denomination you belong to, but for the most part, we hear that a lot. If I don't understand correctly please explain because so far what you say and what I understand others to say don't fit. Otherwise, we seem to be in agreement on God's nature and the Godhead.
  19. jlf9999
    changed To take that one more step, without a body one can't live the highly sought after resurrection and to be like Father. There is no eternal life as we understand eternal life to be and therefor no joy or family.
  20. jlf9999
    Where I heard or read this I can't recall but the offspring of these angel fathered beings had no soul. They were just animated organisms. To take this one more step, the act of creating a new body in the common biological way would be an impossibility for these angels. It would have had to be by some other method such as a chemistry project. :) These offspring may not have even been sentient. I certainly would not pass that on as gospel or authoritative but in one way it makes sense. If it is our spirit that makes us what we are then without one any organism is essentially a lab creation. They are not authorized by God to house one of His spirit children.
  21. jlf9999
    anatess That is an interesting story. It somewhat parallels mine although I have been LDS since I was 9. I was well advanced in years before I finally recognized that I too had a testimony. It was not an event. One day I just realized that what I had been taught and told for decades was in fact true. Many others have a similar story. Just being a member or coming from a long line of Mormons is meaningless. Every person has to find his own testimony and for some of us it is well down the road.
  22. jlf9999
    Maureen and Soninme This has been discussed in several posts and prior comments in some detail. I refer you to them. But, briefly, Christ speaks with authority granted him as a member of the Godhead. He is not God the Father. I know it is a foreign concept to traditional Christians but they are three distinct beings. They are not an all-in-one God except in purpose and mind. Matthew lays that out quite clearly. One either accepts Matthew as definitive or he doesn't.
  23. jlf9999
    I think we could call the the 4 ward buildings sardine wards. Just a little attempt at humor...
  24. jlf9999
    Christ, as Yahweh, was admonishing the Israelites to stop worshiping idols and false Gods because He was the only true God. Christ is talking on behalf of God the Father and the Godhead. Christ does not demand worship of Himself. In the New Testament, he identifies himself as the son of God, not God. Matthew 16:15-17. "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona, for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." There can be no clearer explanation of who Christ is and what his relationship is to The Father and the Holy Ghost. You have to look at Isaiah in that light. Or so it seems to me. If Matthew is clear, so then must Isaiah be.
  25. jlf9999
    The original was written in Aramaic and Hebrew which were later translated into Greek and the Greek was translated into Latin and the Latin into English. That is how all this came about. There is genuine and legitimate confusion about it all. According to LDS theology, that is one reason there had to be a restoration. Whether it was translated correctly is a legitimate concern. Determining whether God the Father always uses a certain personal pronoun in every case or whether Christ is talking on behalf of God the Father in every case seems to be somewhat of a fruitless endeavor if we use just the bible. The bible in itself has a limited capacity to shed light. Now if you ask an Old Testament specialist at BYU maybe you can get an answer that works better than mine.