Shawn

Snow- Makes sense. Although I'm not entirely sure the LDS thought the Salamander Letter was farsical. To be honest, I'm not sure that many Latter-day Saints even really knew about it so maybe my using it as an example was weak to begin with. Never-the-less, the people I associated with at the time knew of it, and the leadership believed in it enough to buy it, so I don't think it was taken lightly by all. Good comments though. SHAWN

Thank you for your kindness, John Doe.

John Doe: That was a profound message. I mean it. But to what are you ascribing it to? Are you saying the weak (those who'd leave the Church) and the strong (those who would stay) would continue? If so, can I guess that you would be one of the strong? Just curious. (By the way, John Doe of X is a favorite songwriter of mine. I don't know if there is any connection to your name here, but I thought I'd add this in for flavor.) IJA, Shawn

I think the question of whether or not such an announcement would be quick or slow is pretty much besides the point. The question was, "How would it affect you if such a thing was announced?" I'm reminded of when news about the Salamander Letters were considered true. There was little to no fallout from that news form the general membership and I just doubt that there would be any fallout from a similarly shocking announcement about the BOM. Again, and I know I'm pushing the point, but would you really leave the Church? What if there is significant discoveries regarding DNA and the BOM? What if there is a significant finding relative to anachronistic difficulties that cannot be overcome regarding the BOM and the brethren decide to take this stand? Really, how would this affect your MEMBERSHIP, ACTIVITY, and the LIKE? Shawn

Thank you, Snow. I appreciate your insight to what I was asking and for putting the question in better context. You've given me a shot of hope I was just about out of in this forum. Shawn

The latest post by SHAWN was not by Shawn at all. I don't use icons and those are not my words. SHAWN

Shawn, I wouldnt expect anything else from you because all of your posts have sounded anti...... There are somethings in life that I can joke about, but scriptures are not one of them . This just truly hurts my heart to read it, I wonder how many wasteful hours it took to come up with it? I think I will stick to the saturday morning Calvin and Hobbs -------------------- Sisterhood It is the security a woman feels in knowing that another woman understands and cares. Laureltree Since you say I sound "anti," would you define what this means? IJA, Shawn

A land with "trolls" is a make-believe place - trolls are not real, have never been real, and never will be real. They are the product of a vivid imagination. To address a troll, or to consider a perceived problem caused by a supposed troll, is to waste important time and energy on subjects that fuel fantasy-land environs. Perhaps there are individuals who do not ask the kind of questions those already here enjoy or appreciate. Perhaps they doubt things the "regulars" believe. Maybe some people actually have beliefs outside the parameters of LDS thought; maybe they are truly searching. What I have found is that people in possession of the Truth never need to lash out, get angry, or assasinate other ideas no matter how charged they may be at the onset. "A soft answer turneth away wrath," right. Jesus applied a deadening of the senses to those who shut out truth. He said the don't see or can't hear. To shut out those visitors who come with tough questions, accusations, and/or ideas because they make us uncomfortable is a form of denial. It lends to the establishment of fantasy worlds. The longer the environment continues without confrontation, the more the world separates from reality. There aren't any trolls out there, fellow post people. There are only living, breathing, individuals who are looking to exchange, question, probe, and sometimes challenge. Let's give em' a chance. Shawn

On a scale of 1 to 10, how much anxiety and trouble would you experience if the Pope (or Protestant pastor of a congregation) announced that the Bible will no longer be considered scripture to members of this Church? I would be as sad as I would to hear the bom to be false, but since we know neither will happen be can be happy and thank you for being sincere.... B)

Thanks for your responses, all. I've learned a few things and gained great insights. I enjoyed the respones that said something to the effect that "Yes, by my faith in Jesus I know I will live in heaven, but what kingdom . . . .?" Anyway, thank you. Shawn @ BAM

All we need to do is come unto him, repent of our sins, and love him with all our hearts and follow his teachings ... to be saved. How do you come unto Him? If the sins were paid for over 2000 years ago, what is being repented of? No person on earth has ever loved the Lord with ALL of their hearts. Now what? No person has ever followed his teachings either. Now what?

Many Christians that claim Jesus as their Lord and Savior trust in His words and as a result know they are going to live with God again. As a Latter-day Saint, and as of this moment, do you know you are going to live with God again or do you feel you'll have to wait and see after this life? Thanks and IJA, Shawn

I think I like this version better than the original.

Dear John Doe, How about you, John. Would you describe yourself as spiritually born-again? IJA, Shawn

Lindy, Just trying to find the pulse of anything LDS - forums, chatrooms. face to face interviews. The stuff is interesting to me. It's what I do; my mission so to speak. If you know anything about the members on this board...you will know that Winnie G speaks her mind...something we all love about her. Because someone "speaks their mind" does not preclude another from stating that the manner in which they speak is rude. I won't retaliate or try attack her. I'm just pointing our her being rude in that circumstance. To answer your question...there are those who have had inner struggles with what to believe, or what not to believe. But I expect that the adversary tries to manipulate the weaknesses and expound on the insecurities of those who try to stand strong in their beliefs. Okay. I think this is true in many circumstances. But I also think open dialogue about what people's opinions are does not necessarily mean a discussion is of the adversary or that it has ulterior purpose. I'm sure that as a "born again Mormon" you are trying to capitalize on any doubts, fears or worries that anyone has with their allegiance to the LDS faith. You might be interested to know that I do not try an capitalize on anything of anyones unless I'm in an arguement with them. But I'm not in an arguement here. My initial question was really to hear what people would say. I've had two responses. That is great. I know what I think the majority of Latter-day Saints would say on this subject, but I thought I'd test the waters here. It's nothing earthshattering. Just a question for those who come to this site. The fact that the responses are low is not one bit of an indicator of it usefulness. I could get on some site (like the ones you suggested) and get my ego boosted all day long. This is not my desire. I really am just checking the pulse of this specific group. That's all. I understand the fear and skepticism regarding my post. But I thought it would be fun to ask. Does it really annoy you when some stand firm in what they believe? No matter what? Why is it assumed I am annoyed? Come on, be fair. Do you know I live with four members of the Church in peace and love and harmony. Do you know I support them in their decision to be Mormon? Did you know I spent all of 4th of July with 2 dozen Latter-day Saints and we all had a great time. Or that I have people email me about believing in Joseph and the BOM and loving Jesus completely and I do nothing but support their beliefs? I am not the least bit annoyed that people stand firm on what they believe. My specific mission in life is to get Latter-day Saints to look at their stated beliefs and see how important a role a life-changing relationship with Jesus Christ has in those beliefs. If it's important, I move on. If they aren't sure, I speak. Simple as that. By the way, are you spiritually reborn by faith in Jesus Christ, Lindy?

Thank you for the input. But did you need to preface it with commentary on how dumb my question was? Isn't that rude? I really don't mean to be dumb. I just know there are some people who wonder about the veracity of the BOM but remain members of the church.

Just taking a poll. On a scale of 1 to 10, how much anxiety and trouble would you experience if Gordon B Hinckley announced that the BOM will no longer be considered scripture to members of the Church? Thanks, Shawn

Dear members of this board, I am writing to offer a sincere apology to any and all I have offended by my probing. I have a tendency to dig in deep before I know all the facts and should have known I was making a mistake by trying to discuss such hot topics in an electronic medium. Before December 30th, I have never been on a message board forum before and I'm sure this is more than obvious. I will defend my honesty and intentions to a fault, but readily apologize at my feeble attempts to express them through this venue. I accept all blame for the anger I've caused and all the blame for phrasing things that have incited such responses (especially the responses from myself). You have each taught me an important lesson in communications, let alone humility, decorum and self-expression. I am fully committed to my doctrinal positions and stand to the death behind the purpose, intents, and mission of our ministry, but I have been guilty of inept execution and initiating contention and stand corrected, reproved and permanently removed from every attempting to communicate in this way ever again. Please forgive me. In Jesus, Shawn McCraney

Members of this board, I will consider myself "sent packing" and apologize for getting involved in somthing I don't fully understand (before you get too excited at your victory, I'm speaking of message boards and not the Gospel of Jesus Christ). I have discovered that sincerity cannot be expressed in this form of communication and the end result can be sarcasm (of which I too have been guilty). I'm pretty certain that were we all in a room face to face with an unbiased monitor all my questions (and yours) would receive a reasonable response and the exact positions of both sides would be made known. I know when I'm out of my league and in this forum I am. I apologize for whatever I have implied, said, or requested that got the dander up of the regulars. Relentlessness is my natural (albeit erroneous) response when I sense I'm getting the run-around on something, but I will assume I am the one whose brought all the hostility and beg your forgiveness for my inept attempts at on-line discussions. I ask your fogiveness, admit my guilt, and resign from attempting to spread a message I am convincted to spread. I must find other avenues of expression than this. In Jesus, Shawn McCraney

Two posts from what seems to be active LDS posters, and neither of them can directly describe their OWN spiritual rebirth. Let's see, Latter-day Saints claim to be Christian, they claim to believe in spiritual rebirth, but two of their very own e-scholars who attempt to answers everything else under the sun but are unable to respond to a simple, straight-forward request. Is Bill Clinton on this board? Next thing I' ll read is some Latter-day Saint writing, "Well, I dunno that we really teach that today, Don . . ." Somebody who claims the LDS Church believes in spiritual rebirth, I'd appreciate a response that is direct and heart-felt. Shawn

Dear Snow, Don't go into attack mode now. My statements are not necessarily uneducated. Because YOUR priesthood messege yesterday assigned Jesus one of the "four posts essential to the restoration" doesn't mean He is discussed in the Church at large (specific, personal examples are always a ridiculous way of forming a defense.) You can get defensive and call me uneducated or whatever, but there is a real reason the Christian community gets all over Latter-day Saints. Of course, your response might be that they are evil, jealous, mislead or misinformed but the truth of the matter is, Jesus is at MOST one of many essential reasons the LDS Church exists where in Christianity He is the ONLY reason the Church exists - as a means to bring Man in the presence of God. Speak facts, Snow. There is a lot more to salvation in the LDS Church than God-given faith on Jesus Christ, so don't act like your lesson yesterday (although it doesn't even give Jesus the allegiance He deserves) is a normative event. Please explain for all to read the role Jesus plays in your life? Shawn

Most of you posters are claiming Latter-day Saints believe in spiritual rebirth. Please, in a paragraph or two, honestly explain how you have experienced this event as a member.

Ray, I have limited time to read these posts - you're probably in the same boat. This is why I requested no scripture-citing responses. Now please don't say that this (scriptures) are our source of truth because I understand this. But I am looking for direct, clean, concise responses to specific claims Latter-day Saints insist on making (like, We're Chrsitians or We belive in being born-again). THis is where I am looking for insights and genuine, real-life arguements. If you have some, let's hear them. In Jesus, Shawn

The titles part was you claiming that I was somehow referring to myself as a prophet. I am no more a prophet for writing/starting BAM (Born-Again Mormon) than you are for expressing your opinion on this message board. Okay, let me understand this . . . you do say Joseph Smith is necessary for your salvation or are you saying Joseph Smith is not necessary for your salvation. I would like a straight answer to this question if you could. Thank you. Shawn