Jedi_Nephite
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Posts posted by Jedi_Nephite
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I am sorry to hear about your loss. My father passed away last year, and I think about him everyday. A few days before he died, I found this article on lds.org: The Spirit World, Our Next Home. I printed a copy for my mother, and it brought her much comfort.
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But Wilford Brimley is still active.
I didn't know that Wilford Brimley was a member, let alone an active member.
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A few that come to mind:
Ricky Shroder.
John Heder.
Gladys Knight.
Steve Young.
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Barn owl
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flipped on the
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I believe Kelly's excommunication could have been avoided if the Church engaged in a proper dialogue with her and OW.
Perhaps. But it seems fairly obvious that Kate Kelly was not interested in a "proper dialogue." She was not asking a question, she was making a demand. The Church cannot help it if Kate Kelly and her ilk chose not to listen.
Furthermore, why should the First Presidency have a dialogue anyway? Dialogue works when there is room to debate, or compromise; the Gospel doesn't work that way. However, if, by dialogue, you mean having matters of doctrine explained that people do not understand, that is what their Bishops and local leaders are for.
If the First Presidency has not prayed about the issue, I would guess the reason is that the spirit simply has not compelled them to do so. So, either they felt the answer was already there, and the answer is "No." Or, they have prayed about it and the answer is still "No."
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Although there is a glimmer of hope that it might have been the same person who ordained him an Elder (though I'm not optimistic).
I am certain that the person who ordained him an Elder is not the same person who ordained him a High Priest. My family moved to a different state by the time my father was ordained a High Priest.
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Also if you like, ask the man who ordained your father an elder it could also be the same person that did the high priest as well.
Well, that person lives in a different state. It had probably been at least over 30 years since my Dad last saw him before he died.
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Sounds like you've been busy! By "Church History Library", though, I mean central archives - in Salt Lake. I just can't fathom that the centralized church would give an instruction like the one your stake clerk recalls.
That was my feeling, too. But there was something on LDS.org that supported his claim. I would need to find the link, but it was from a 1994 edition of the Ensign.
Did your dad or your mom keep a journal? How about the members of the bishopric, stake presidency, or high council at the time of his ordination? Did your dad have a sibling or a father or uncle who was already a high priest, who might have officiated? Did they keep journals?
My Dad hadn't kept a formal journal in many years. However, he was meticulous at keeping records as well as a personal log. We have searched his belongings several times, but haven't found any clues whatsoever.
The Stake President at the time said there is no record of it in his own journal.
My father does have siblings, but my parents joined the Church after they were married, and are the only members in each of their families.
I know the convention is to trace the line of authority through the office the officiator held at the time of the ordination; but in realiy your dad's authority to confer the MP and ordain you an elder didn't come by virtue of his ordination as a high priest. He received that authority (subject, of course, to the keys of the local leaders) from the moment he himself was ordained an elder. The only way his ordination to the office of elder would "not pertain to you", is if--for a split second during the ceremony in which he was ordained a high priest--your dad lost the authority he had held as an elder, and then had it returned to him (with more) as a high priest. That notion, as far as I know, is without precedent in LDS thought.
That's what I originally thought, as well. However, according to lds.org, at this link, the proper line of authority would be through the one who performed the ordination:
"When a man ordains another to an office in the priesthood, the person ordained will determine his line of authority by the priesthood office held by the one performing the ordination at the time the ordination was performed. For example, if a high priest ordains his son to be an elder, his son would trace his line of authority through the high priest line of authority of his father."
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I was able to locate all but one date, and will have to go to the church for the ordination date of one individual.
Now, when you say "church", what exactly do you mean? Your ward? Salt Lake?
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I think your next step is to go to the Church History Library and find out how they got the date. There must be a certificate of ordination somewhere--you need to find it. Also, touch base with your father's bishop/stake president again, and find out what kind of ward/stake histories were kept, whether someone still has them locally, or whether they were turned in to Salt Lake.
If, by "Church History Library", you mean what is on record at our ward, when I asked my father's/my Bishop (we attended the same ward before he died) about it, he did look through some old records of the ward, but couldn't find anything.
One thing that the Stake Clerk did tell me, was that there was a brief period of time in the mid-nineties when the Church was not keeping records of certain ordinances. Given that my father was ordained a High Priest around that time, that might help explain why I'm having difficulty finding a line of authority for him. He also said that the only thing that he was able to find in the records at the stake center was an old spreadsheet that indicated the date he was ordained, but not who ordained him, or set him apart.
If all else fails, you could still see if someone can track your dad's line of authority through his ordination to the office of elder.
Any particular reason as to why I would want to do that? I've had more than one person suggest this to me before, but I'm not sure why, as that line of authority would not pertain to me. But, for the record, I already do have a copy of his line of authority through his ordination of Elder.
Or, figure out a way to get yourself ordained a high priest as quickly as possible. Then, it won't matter anymore.
That's an idea. Although, knowing 'Murphy's Law' I wouldn't be surprised if that happens after I get this sorted out.
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Email them at: [email protected] and perhaps you will be in touch with someone else who will be able to help.
Thank you. But, like I said, I did that already. That was how I discovered my line of authority was incomplete in the first place. I even went so far as to call them. They told me that I need to find out who ordained my father a High Priest in order for them to determine my priesthood line of authority.
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At the time I was ordained an Elder, my father was a High Priest. He was also the one who ordained me to the office of Elder in the Melchizedek Priesthood. However, I recently learned that my priesthood line of authority would be through my father's priesthood line as a High Priest. So, I requested my priesthood line of authority through the Church, but the line of authority that they sent to me stopped with my father.
Confused, I called the Member and Statistical Records Division of the Church and inquired as to why my line of authority was incomplete. I was told that they do not have on record who ordained my father a High Priest. They have the date he was ordained to that office, but not who performed the ordination.
Unfortunately, my father passed away recently, so I am unable to ask him this information. I have contacted the Bishop he served with at the time he was ordained a High Priest, but he doesn't remember nor does the other counselor he served with in the Bishopric. I also contacted the Stake Clerk, who asked the members of the Stake Presidency at the time, and neither the Stake President nor his counselors remember. I've also asked close friends of my father's who are High Priests and in our ward at the time, and they don't remember either.
So, at this point, I'm kind of running out of leads, and I'm not sure where to go from here. The person I spoke to on the phone at the Member and Statistical Records Division of the Church said that if I can find out who ordained my father a High Priest, they can probably find out my proper priesthood line of authority.
I realize that not knowing my exact line of authority doesn't negate the validity of my own authority at all. However, should I have a son, or ordain someone else someday, I am sure they would like to know their complete line of authority. Plus, I would just like to know myself.
Has anyone had an issue like this before? And, if so, how were you able to get it resolved?
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Brother
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Out-laws
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Confrontational
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Pure.
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Real estate
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Strike
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Something good that happened is that my wife recently had our first child. A baby girl.
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I think this is exceedingly silly but it's no sillier than One Million Moms calling for a boycott of JC Penney because they chose Ellen DeGeneres as a spokesperson and because they put a pair of Lesbian mothers in a mothers day ad, or the American Family Association calling for a boycott of Google because of their support for LGBT rights, or conservatives calling for a boycott of Oreo because of their rainbow cookie last year. Let's not pretend that the left is the only side that calls for boycotts of views they don't like. Both sides are exceedingly silly.
I'm not exactly sure how it is "exceedingly silly" to boycott a company that put something as inappropriate as lesbian mothers in a mother's day ad. Personally, I am glad to see that more organizations are now taking a stand against this kind of thing.
And, let's not forget that when you shop at these places, these same companies often donate a percentage of their proceeds to support the very organizations that adamantly fight against the very beliefs that we, as LDS, have been counseled by the First Presidency to take a stand for.
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As LDS, I thought the reason we don't use the cross as a symbol is because, as already mentioned, we prefer to focus on the eternal aspects of Christ's mission rather than his death. But, isn't the other reason also because we believe the actual atonement took place in the Garden of Gethsemane; not on the cross?
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Hello, everyone.
I've been lurking for a short while now, so I thought I would introduce myself in the event I ever decide to add something to the discussion. This site has many great threads, full of interesting topics of discussion.
How serious a sin is stealing?
in General Discussion
Posted
If it's not that big of a deal to steal, then why is the commandment "Thou shalt not steal?" It's a commandment, not a suggestion.