blazius

You're right, Dorsey, all will be resurrected to eternal life. There is no contradiction in what you stated. Sorry for reading your post wrong.thanks, blazius

Since we, LDS, believe that Jesus is God, what then is the issue? You continue to act like you have stumbled on to something - Prey tell what is it? You, LDS, don't believe that Jesus is part of the Trinity, one as God the Father and Creator of the universe. You reject the traditional view of the Messiahship of Jesus the Christ and accept a lie taught by one single man, Joseph Smith and the church he founded. When someone such as myself presents a verse unto you, such as Isaiah 9:6 that clearly and unequivocally states Jesus is God Almighty you twist it around through erroneous interpretation that is textbook LDS doctrine. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Now that I’ve quoted it, go ahead and twist it around to make it fit the doctrine of your Church. When you say that you LDS believe Jesus is God what you’re really saying is that you believe Jesus is A god, son of Elohim, brother of Satan. This is a lie and is in direct conflict with the bible and fundamental Christianity. And I might also add this is in direct conflict with your Book of Mormon!!! You Mormons claim you are Christian left and right and deceive many ignorant unperceptive people, yet you Mormons believe nothing even close to biblical Christianity. blazius

Dorsey, I have read the Book of Mormon and have found tons and tons of inconsistencies that conflict with LDS doctrine. For example, the doctrine of the LDS church is that Jesus is not God, but is a god unto himself, yet as I read through the Book of Mormon I HAND PICKED each and every one of the following verses that state Jesus is indeed, God:2 Nephi 1:10; 2 Nephi 6:9; 2 Nephi 10:7; 2 Nephi 11:7; 2 Nephi 19:6; 2 Nephi 25:12; 2 Nephi 25:13; 2 Nephi 26:12; 2 Nephi 31:21; Mosiah 3:8; Mosiah 4:2; Mosiah 5:15; Mosiah 7:27; Mosiah 13:34; Mosiah 15:1-2; Mosiah 15:3-4; Mosiah 16:15; Mosiah 17:8; Mosiah 26:23; Alma 11:26-35; Alma 11:38-40; Alma 11:44; Alma 30:44; Alma 33:1; Alma 42:15; Helaman 8:23; Helaman 14:12; Helaman 16:18; 3 Nephi 9:15; 3 Nephi 9:18; 3 Nephi 11:14; 3 Nephi 11:27; 3 Nephi 11:36; 3 Nephi 12:18; 3 Nephi 15:5; 3 Nephi 19:18; 3 Nephi 20:35; 3 Nephi 28:10; Mormon 3:21; Mormon 7:7; Mormon 9:11; Ether 2:12; Ether 3:9; Ether 3:14; Ether 3:16; Ether 3:21; Ether 4:7; Ether 4:12; Moroni 7:22; Moroni 8:8; Moroni 10:28; Moroni 10:32; Moroni 10:34. You are all claiming that two or more is a witness, how about 55? CLEARLY the Book of Mormon teaches that Jesus is God! Blazius

You know, Brandon Hinds, I have read the Book of Mormon and continue to do so here and there to refresh my mind about its story. Everything I have posted is from years of my own studying and research. I do not post one single thing from an anti-Mormon site as I am the kind of person that must verify material for myself.The major problem that I have with this book from Joseph Smith is that there is absolutely no secondary source for any of the information contained within its pages. The Book of Mormon is not true for the sole reason that there is not one single, solitary and substantial resource from which to garner some backing, as can be done with the bible. I would like to know why so many millions of people place their faith and trust in a shallow, incoherent book that cannot be verified from any other source on the face of this planet that was written by one man over a period of just 38 days!!!!! Where are the gold plates, Brandon Hinds? Where is some evidence that they even existed? The fact of the matter is that the Book of Mormon can be lumped together with most of the other writings from the founders of all religions: Book of Mormon: one book, one author, one lifetime Pearl of Great Price: one book, one author, one lifetime Doctrines and Covenants: one book, one author, one lifetime The Quran: one book, one author, one lifetime The Tripitaka (Buddhist): one book, one author, one lifetime Dianetics (L Ron Hubbard and the Church of Scientology): one book, one author, one lifetime New Living Translation (Charles Taze Russell (JW)): one book, one author, one lifetime The Bahai Faith (the writings of Bahaullah): one book, one author, one lifetime Krathism (from the Urantia: material channeled from extraterrestrials in the 1930's. All the material was channeled through one typewriter by one single person. The manuscript was held for many years, and then it was released in 1956.): one book, one author, one lifetime. Please tell me, what is the difference between the Book of Mormon and and the above mentioned books? Because all I can see is a bunch of books written by one man each with no secondary sources of verifiable information for their extraordinary claims. Blazius

however, the verse I quoted from Daniel 2 states otherwise. How do you explain the contradiction?blazius

From what I understand salvation is what was provided to all because of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. All die but when all are resurrected some will be resurrected for eternal life and some for eternal torment:And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt (Dan 12:2). blazius

But this is not what is stated in the Book of Mormon, not one single place.This is where the inconsistencies lie and this is the core of my post. blazius

Yes I understand, but what do you believe? Are you combining the saved by grace concept in Evangelicalism with the Mormon belief in exaltation through works?blazius

As I have been reading through the Book of Mormon and some of the LDS Church’s teachings from other sources, I have run into some discrepancies. One of them, for example, is that in the Book of Mormon it is implicitly stated there is only one God (Alma 11:26-29; 11:44; 2Nephi 31:21; 3Nephi 11:27, 36; and the Testimony of the Three Witnesses), yet common and current LDS teaching is that there is a plurality of gods (“…it is evident…that a plurality of gods exists.”—McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 576). When I have spoken with missionaries or anyone else in the Mormon faith I have always been told that God the Father is one of many gods even though the Book of Mormon clearly teaches otherwise. Can someone help me to understand the inconsistencies? thank you in advance, blazius

Prisonchaplain, the Mormon term, "we are saved by grace after all we can do," is this a biblical term? Does this term have any root in traditional Christianity?thanks, blazius

Desiré, I'm curious to know, in your conversion process did you ever happen to read a passage from the bible in the book of Galatians, chapter 1, verses 8-9?Here are those two verses: But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Desiré, how do you see these two verses in view of the LDS Church's claim that they possess another testament of Jesus Christ? thanks in advance for your reply, blazius

If many non-LDS are raptured, where will they go? And, why would the Lord take non-LDS?thanks for the help, blazius

Again with the making up stuff. God couldn't hold a temporal office because... er, uh... you say so? Funny but I doubt God is limited to that which you agree to. This crack me up. People don't like something another believes about God so they spin and twist that passage to mean anything they want. I wouldn't have any idea if God holds an office but your explanation 1. is quite obiviously wrong and 2. doesn't even make sense. God changes is all sorts of ways all the time. If one interprets that passage to mean that God can never change at all in any way it is obviously wrong. God used to be the God of Israel, now the gospel is available to all. Jesus - God used to be not on the earth, born to a virgin, then was on earth and born to a woman. Then he was a child, then an adult, then baptised, then crucified, etc. Changes all. The God of the OT changed his mind, instructed his followers to steal, murder, rape and kidnap. The God of the NT doesn't do any of that. Why do you make so much stuff up? Snow, I can entirely retort everything you said, however, the tone you use when addressing me leaves much to be desired. Until you can change your smug, sanctimonious, judgmental tenor, I decline to discourse with you. blazius

Along the theme of this thread, I'm curious about more LDS doctrine. My question is, does the LDS Church teach the unannounced rapture of all believers prior to the second coming of Christ? thank you, blazius

Traveler, may I ask why you omit the middle letter in the word, "God?"thanks, blazius

Maureen, I am not here to debate personalities, I am here to find answers to my many questions about Mormonism. I couldn’t care less if you think I am insolent; your assessment of my character is a side issue and irrelevant to the issue at hand.. There seems to be plenty of other people here who are mature and civil enough to answer my questions without having a personality problem. If you refuse to address my inquiry into why you think you share common beliefs with the Mormons in this forum in light of 2 Cor 6:14-18, so be it. Adios. blazius

Thank you, Eric, for the serious and mature answer.I understand what you're saying and have considered it deeply. However, the first thought that comes to mind about the "work" concept is that if a person continually lives under the burden of work, don’t you think this places fear and distrust on the person doing the work, that he has never done enough? It seems to me that the “work” concept is not a liberating matter but rather an encumbersome way in which to keep people thinking they’ll never be good enough to enter God’s presence, thus, continually indebt to a church. Do you have any thoughts on this? Yes, I understand about the three levels of heaven. But I've always been referring to God's presence.Thanks, blazius

This cannot be true both from a biblical perspective and from a Book of Mormon perspective.Genesis 1:1 says that God created the heavens (cosmos) and the earth. 3 Nephi 9:15 says, "Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are." If one is a creator He cannot hold a temporal office. If one is the same yesterday, today, and forever that would mean if He is holding an office He has always held the same and will continue to eternally do so. blazius

I don't think that is true. I think you are just making it up and can't support such a notion. Snow, I am not making this up and your charge is baseless. For example, I have found that Matthew 22:30 says, “For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.” Jesus seems to be strikingly clear here that when a man dies he is not required to live in any matrimonial affair because man will be like the angels who are not given in marriage. Now, if you try to use Isaiah 55:9 as support for plural marriage then that would contradict Matt 22:30. Do you care to discuss the support I have provided for this blatant contradiction? I think you are making that up to. What proof do you have for such a bold claim? In as much as you are making the claim, it is your duty to demonstrate it. It can be demonstrated by reading the life of David. Go ahead, read through each time David took a wife and you’ll see that chastisement and discipline came as a result of polygamy. Again, read through the account of Abraham’s polygamy and the problems he had because he took a second wife. He had absolutely no blessings whatsoever because of his adulteress affair with Hagar and in fact, was stricken to the heart with grief for his unauthorized sexual union with her. Snow, do you care to have a discourse with me or are you just going to point your finger and yell, “prove it” all day? Thanks, blazius

Can someone who is serious about his or her faith and serious about answering an analytical mind address my post? I had asked: Can someone please tell me, from a Mormon perspective, how would I know if I have worked enough to get to heaven? Is there a level of work to attain to? Is there prescribed work? In other words, if I become a Mormon, when would I find out that God was pleased enough with my works to let me go to heaven? I do not desire sanctimonious sarcasm but would appreciate a Mormon’s honest perspective on my questions above. Thank you, blazius

Isaiah 55:9 has nothing whatsoever to do with plural marriage and attempting to apply it to polygamy would contradict the rest of the bible.I have read through the bible and studied it with a fine-toothed comb and have found nothing that supports the practice of polygamy in eternity. What I have found is that those who did practice polygamy (David and Abraham, for example) did not receive blessings from the Lord for doing it. In fact, not once have I found a command for anyone in the bible to take mulitple wives, but rather those who did were chastized by God. Do you care to comment on this? thanks, blazius

Well, it puzzles me for the same reason the world finds the teachings of the Mormon Church so strange and foreign to fundamental Christianity.Think about it from an outsider’s perspective: The Mormon Church is stating that if you don’t accept the command to live polygamy in the afterlife then you cannot go to heaven. Don’t you think this sounds extremely bazaar to someone on the outside? Seriously, if I am commanded to obey the principle to have mulitple wives for all eternity, why does that sound appealing? I thought heaven was all about paradise! Thanks, blazius

But the two scriptures I cited above do say what God was, don't you think? I mean, its pretty clear to me that God has always been God according to those two verses. I really don't see any room to speculate, do you? And if you do see room to speculate, can you please explain why?It is widely known that the Mormon Church believes God was once a man, but I'm just trying to clear up a clear contradiction that I can see between what the bible says and what the LDS Church teaches. thank you, blazius

CrimsonKairos, I was reading through this thread and finally came to your post here. You mention that the scriptures are silent on the issue of who God was before the creation of the earth.Well, I was doing some reading and studying and came across Psalm 90:2 which says, Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. I did a cross reference and came across another verse: Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting (Ps 93:2). These two verses from the bible seem to indicate that God has always been who He is: God. Do you have a comment on this? thanks mucho, blazius

nice try, Maureen, but not what I was looking for. I'm looking for Mormon perspectives for my questions. blazius