WhatDoIDo

@mrmarklin - I think consulting with an attorney before I talk to my wife may not be such a bad idea after all. I have read many things about the laws in my area regarding those things, but it is often general advice that may or may not apply to my situation. ------ @yjacket - Yes, I know that it's right. I said "feel" simply because that's how I've learned the Spirit talks to me, by the feelings I get: the burning in the bosom, feeling of peace, telling me in my heart, etc. That being said, this is a life-altering decision, not only for myself, but for many others as well, so I can't help but be hesitant and reluctant despite the reassurance I have from the Spirit. I'm familiar with and have read studies like those you've mentioned. I'm not under some delusion that a divorce will magically make me go from being unhappy to happy. Like you said, it changes one set of problems for another set. ------- @Str8shooter - I'm certainly not perfect in those areas you've mentioned, but I do feel like I'm working to improve those areas where I'm struggling (tithing and thereby temple attendance in my case). I would love to have been able to go to the temple and ponder these things, but that's not an option right now because I can't hold a recommend due to the tithing problem. But I have thought about, prayed about and fasted many, many, many times about this over the course of several years. I think the only time the Spirit isn't able to guide us is when we have been involved in serious sins (ie. adultery, pornography) and have separated ourselves so far from God that the Spirit is too far from us, which isn't my case at all. But even when people are lost in serious sin, it's the Spirit (along with guidance from their Bishop/Stake Pres) that leads them back to the right path. We have done counseling, but nothing ever changes and in general, she has been opposed to it from the beginning. ------- @notquiteperfect - I feel like I've REALLY tried to put myself in my wife's shoes to try to understand her perspective and actions. I've read several books about marriage and strengthening marriage, often to the scoff and amusement of my wife. But in the end, I can only change myself. I can try to be the best husband/father I can be, but if that's not reciprocated, then what? I do think back to when we first fell in love. I think about it all the time. I was very young and naive and thought that all I needed to do was find a nice little Mormon girl, marry her in the temple and have our celestial family. What I've since come to understand is what it means to have an "eternal companion" and everything that entails. Not sure I understand your third question. ------- @Leah - Thank you for commenting, but I didn't find your comments very constructive or helpful, but rather combative and judgemental. ------- @drham3rd - I never considered doing a separation. It's some food for thought, but if I know that a divorce is right, why go through the trouble of doing a separation and delaying the inevitable? One benefit it could have is giving us an opportunity to see how a divorce would work logistically. Where are each of us going to live? How are we going to divide up the financial responsibilities? How are we going to split up custody of the kids? I've got an idea in my head of how some of that might work out. But aren't these the types of things that are hammered out and agreed upon during the divorce process? ------- @neurotypical - As I mentioned, yes, we have kids. I recognize that for a lot of people that totally changes things. It kills me inside that I can't currently give my children the model marriage relationship I wish I could. I have read many things about divorce and it's effects on children. I can only hope and pray that the Lord can guide me in helping my children through it all. ------ @omegaseamaster - You're right, it's time to man up.

So I've been unhappy in my marriage for a very, very long time. I've discussed it with my wife at length on many, many occasions and feel that I have done everything I can think of to try to make it better. As much as I hated it, I came to the realization my marriage was dead and I had to consider a divorce. After much careful thought and prayer, I feel like I've gotten confirmation that a divorce is what I need to do. I felt a peace that I haven't felt for a long time. My question is who do I go to first? My bishop is somewhat aware of the situation but he doesn't know yet that I want to move forward with a divorce. My wife knows things are shaky, and I feel like I need to tell her what I've decided right away. But I'm nervous because I have no idea how she will react. She may lash out in anger about abandoning our marriage. She may start sobbing and begging me to stay. She may be relieved that I feel the same way she does. I have no idea. I don't have a lawyer, but I know that one will likely be involved at some point, and I know that serving her papers is NOT the right way to tell her I want a divorce. What should be my first step? Should I just tell my wife? Do I go to the bishop for advice on how to tell her?

I'm not looking for submission. She shouldn't do it just because I'm asking it. Otherwise, she'll end up resenting me for making her do something she doesn't want to do. I think the point that MrShorty was trying to make is that generally couples need to meet somewhere in the middle. Her sexuality may need to be awakened and mine may need to be reigned in (though I don't think my current expectations are unreasonable at all). But how do I awaken that desire so that she'll engage because she wants to, not out of duty, obligation or submission. The most frustrating part is that she is satisfied in probably 98% of our encounters. That being the case, I would think that alone would be enough to awaken the desire for more, but that isn't the case.

My goodness, I needed a good laugh today. In this context, what's a man gotta do to get his wife to "Giddy up!"? The short answer is to find her "love language" and fill her love tank. But what if that doesn't seem to make a difference?

I really don't like using the term "bridling" when discussed in the context of marriage. For those who may be unfamiliar, the term is derived from Alma 38:12 where Alma gives advice to one of his more faithful sons, Shiblon. Shiblon is advised to "bridle all your passions, that ye may be filled with love." Usually in gospel discussions, this is used as an instruction to young men and young women to "bridle" (or keep under control) their passions until they are married. Youth will have sexual passions and desires as God-given traits, but need to learn to keep those passions under control until they can and should be used within the boundaries the Lord has set (aka. marriage). The idea of "bridling" passion within marriage seems to imply that those passions are somehow wrong or sinful and thereby need to be controlled. Is it wrong or sinful to want my wife to give me sexual pleasure? Certainly not. If there is anything I have taken away from Sis Brotherson's book is that those passions are from God and within the boundaries of marriage, can and should be used as an expression of love and oneness. It is within marriage that those passions should be openly and freely expressed (i.e. "unbridled"), provided both partners agree and one partner isn't being (or feeling) cooerced, degraded, etc.

I purchased "And They Were Not Ashamed" and my wife and I are reading it together every night. Reading it for the past week has initiated several conversations about the situation, all of which are things we've discussed in the past. I think it has given her some insight into herself, but a good portion of it doesn't really apply. Last night we read the section on men needing sex to feel love and women needing love to desire sex. It tells the story of Joe and Mary. In therapy Joe says, "Every time I reached out for you and you said, 'No,' I feel unwanted, unloved. I wonder if you're still attracted to me. I question whether you think I'm a good lover or not. I wonder whether I turn you off. I worry whether you've fallen out of love with me. I feel hurt and distant from you. Your rejection leaves me feeling lonely." That was a very hard section to read without breaking down and sobbing. I had to stop several times as I read it to compose myself. After reading and in our conversations, promises of change are made and while it's only been a week, nothing has actually changed. At least in the past, when promises of change were made, there would be a few days of hope as things seemed to improve. Many times I feel like I'm asking her to change who she is. Which doesn't seem like a fair thing for me to ask of her. Often times when there is a discussion about wanting to change things about your spouse, the usual response is, "Well you knew how she was when you married her, so you need to accept that is who she is." The difference is that we were both virgins when we got married. We had discussed what our sexual relationship would be like before we were married, but we didn't really know how it would be until we were married. For me, it didn't take long after we were married to realize there was a big problem. I think it was just 2 months after we were married that I first brought up my concerns. 10 years later, we're still having the same conversations. It's really sad to say, but had I known then what I know now, I either wouldn't have married her or divorced her back then, before kids got involved. But I wanted to be a "good" husband. I wanted to do what I thought was the "right" thing to do. I thought to myself that maybe if I leaned on the Lord, he would heal my broken heart or change hers. But here I find myself 10 years later unhappy, unsatisfied, full of resentment, anger and lacking any hope for the future. I've considered divorce several times, but I ask myself is the pain, anguish and heartache not only for myself, but also for my kids, my family, et. al. worth it? I know that my parents/family would never understand. There have been two divorces in my family of 50+ couples (among aunts/uncles, cousins - yea my mom is 5th of 9 kids). Both times were caused by infidelity. I want to go see my bishop, but am hesitant because he's a personal friend that I've known him and his wife since high school.

Quin, I agree that marriage is a very complex animal that encompasses all the many things that you listed. There are many strong marriages that can go through that list and highlight several areas where they've greatly struggled. It's also very tough to try to deconstruct that entire marriage to the point of posting on a forum without turning it into a book. I don't think it's oversimplifying so much as trying to cut to the chase. There also is the concept of a dealbreaker. A dealbreaker is something within a marriage so important that if it happens (or in this particular thread isn't happening) it's just cause for termination of the relationship. Adultery is the classic example. For many people, that's a dealbreaker. Everything else on your list could be 100% perfect, but if one partner commits adultery, it's over. Though I think we can all agree that if adultery has happened, the other stuff on the list can't be 100% perfect. Which I think is the heart of what you were saying, you can't just break it down to one thing. However, the dealbreaker is what turns an unhappy marriage into an unacceptable marriage. Now what may be a dealbreaker for one person, may not be a dealbreaker for another. For some couples, adultery is a dealbreaker, but others are able to move past adultery and return to a strong relationship. But like you said, it takes BOTH parties working together to fix it. So what's a guy to do if the other party is either unwilling or unable to work toward fixing it? Then what? Getting back to the dilemma of the OP and myself. What if you fell like you've done everything you can to try to fix the relationship only to see your spouse unwilling or unable to work on it? If a sexless marriage is a dealbreaker, where do you go from there?

omegaseamaster75, Thank you for articulating some of my feelings so well. While my marriage doesn't fit the clinical definition of sexless, it is certainly much, much, much less often than I would prefer. Again, our situation is slightly different from the OP, but I feel like I've done the "lose 25 lbs, keep a perfect house, take her out to dinner/movies" (basically I've tried my best to be the perfect husband for so long) and the situation hasn't changed at all. It's been a problem as long as we've been married (10+ years). I've brought it up several times, and it may change for a few days/weeks, but it never lasts. During those few days/weeks, I always try to show appreciation for the changes (small as they may be sometimes). But I've resigned to the fact that she just doesn't desire me that way very much and never really has. I thought it could be a medical problem, but she's been checked out and there's nothing medically that would be causing this lack of desire. I've considered divorce several times, but in the LDS culture saying you're getting divorced because of differences in sexuality is a major no-no. So I'm stuck.