Average Joe

I believe in an North American location of the land of Nephi so this doesn't sound off the charts to me. I'd need to study up on it some more to really give a more reasoned response. :)

Elder Holland concluded his conference address about the divine love of Christ and the divine love of mothers. The sisters in the congregation as if slowly awakening from a dream were heard to say, "Dieter who...?" And all the brethren were heard to say, "AMEN!"

I like that symbolism, especially since it has Satan symbolically kneeling at the feet of the God of the Old Testament - Jesus Christ.

I would think that most things were simply but expertly made being replaced over time with more ornate features as time and circumstance permitted. Well, the Aaronic priesthood holders in my Ward are not direct descendants of Aaron. The Melchizedek Priesthood holds the right of presidency, and has power and authority over all the offices in the church in all ages of the world, to administer in spiritual things. The second priesthood is called the Priesthood of Aaron, because it was conferred upon Aaron and his seed, throughout all their generations. Why it is called the lesser priesthood is because it is an appendage to the greater, or the Melchizedek Priesthood, and has power in administering outward ordinances. (D&C 107:8, 13-14) To your point on numbers. Wherefore, it came to pass that I, Nephi, did take my family, and also Zoram and his family, and Sam, mine elder brother and his family, and Jacob and Joseph, my younger brethren, and also my sisters, and all those who would go with me. And all those who would go with me were those who believed in the warnings and the revelations of God; wherefore, they did hearken unto my words. (2 Ne. 5:6) Given the limited number of people named in Nephi's record, did "all those who would go with me" include servants of Lehi's and Ishmael's houses...or perhaps members of some indigenous group at joined with the Lehites? Nephi later says: And it sufficeth me to say that forty years had passed away, and we had already had wars and contentions with our brethren. (2 Ne. 5:34) Personally its hard for me to picture fights between, at best, a couple dozen people on each side a war except in the "win or die" sense. I think it was probably made out of wood as opposed to stone. a couple of men and a draft team clearing ground for fields could easily have killed to birds with one stone - clearing the field and prepping wood for the temple. Once they had enough lumber, they could have gotten together one day and done "a good old fashioned Amish barn rising" with minimal disruption of their day to day labors of life. Just a few thoughts

sounds interesting, would you have a reference? :)

lol, most of us call mis-remembering "old age" but in your case we'll go with "youthful good intentions gone awry"

lol, good catch...wonder who has those things anyways? :)

There was no baptism for the dead until after Christ's resurrection - 600 years after Nephi.

If they had built an Ark the plates certainly might have been since they contained the genealogy. Other things that came into Nephite possession at various times included the Liahona, The Record of Ether, the Urim and Thummin, and the Sword of laban

Certain objects would certainly need to be retained for need such as a light source in the Holy Place, others for a symbolic need as they continued to follow the law of Moses, the table of shew bread and altar of incense. We don't have those things in our temples because we have the fullness of the restored gospel, the law of Moses having been fulfilled in Christ. Since there is no way of knowing if the Holy of Holies was an empty room or not your answer is as viable as any other. A last thought. Nephi did leave a clue in: Wherefore, now after I have spoken these words, if ye cannot understand them it will be because ye ask not, neither do ye knock; wherefore, ye are not brought into the light, but must perish in the dark. (2 Ne. 32:4) Having the Melchizedek priesthood was that an allusion to the endowment ceremony in his day?

No need for an Ark, no sacred objects stored is an OK answer. A thought, Israel always rebuilt in Jerusalem. It was their "sacred city" so to speak. The Nephites didn't have "a" sacred city, they had a promised land. As I noted in another reply: "1 Nephi chapter 12 is all about the vision of Nephi's seed in the promised land and that they would basically be smitten and driven until they were finally destroyed. So, armed with this foresight, he may well have had reason to create an Ark to carry sacred objects." Just food for thought.

So your answer is no Ark nothing inside, That works. A thought about "it wouldn't make any sense to have an ark for what was a permanent temple". 1 Nephi chapter 12 is all about the vision of Nephi's seed in the promised land and that they would basically be smitten and driven until they were finally destroyed. So, armed with this foresight, he may well have had reason to create an Ark to carry sacred objects. By the time of King Mosiah they had already left Nephi's temple behind..Just a thought.

2 Ne, 5:16 And I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon save it were not built of so many precious things; for they were not to be found upon the land, wherefore, it could not be built like unto Solomon’s temple. But the manner of the construction was like unto the temple of Solomon; and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine. Now of course there would be an altar and lavar in the outer court, and it would be fairly easy to recreate an altar of incense, menorah, and table of shew bread for the Holy Place; but what about inside the Holy of Holies? Inside the Holy of Holies was the Ark of the Covenant, and according to Paul the Ark contained the tables of the 10 commandments written by the finger of God, a bowl containing manna from heaven, and Aaron’s rod that budded. Assuming Nephi also constructed an Ark, does anyone care to share a thought concerning what he might have put in it – if anything?

Since you are clearly an intelligent man, and I, probably not so much, you should know I can't read your mind given the brief statement you made. And apparently you can't read mine since your presumption is 100% wrong. So I guess as mind readers, you and I are about on the same level.

I'm sorry I wasn't here to take my own stoning instead of LP but I've been struggling through a sinus infection the past 3 days, and so , no, It wasn't formatted well but it did serve its purpose (as far as I'm concerned but I'm still running a temp so what do I know?) But I definitely agree with your closing remarks: "I think there is a need for more open dialogue on this issue Avg Joe has brought up. With less finger pointing and accusing and more understanding."

Thank you very much for this, I'll definitely look for the books. The insights you shared were a long the lines of what I was thinking,

you can delete it if you feel it is inapprobriate

you can delete it if you feel it is inapprobriate

I have noted the same thing

it should be remembered that this is a church of converts more than Born in the Covenant members. Most church lessons and study material is geared to that audience. And often times in the past the manuals have been very sanitized. And with this in mind it isn't hard to see how some come to that false impression.

I find this to align with my views on it.

lol, any time one goes sacred cow tipping, you should expect the natives to get restless No combativeness meant at all, although I'll freely admit written words are subjective :)

That's why I love these words from the "Psalm of Nephi" 16 Behold, my soul delighteth in the things of the Lord; and my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard. 17 Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great goodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works, my heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am! Yea, my heart sorroweth because of my flesh; my soul grieveth because of mine iniquities. 18 I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me. 19 And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted.

yes

Ecclesiastes 3(KJV)1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven If you don't see a particular point to this post you can move along to something which is more interesting to you or spending a little time here posting jokes about it, whatever makes you happy, I don't mind :) But since you seem like a fairly bright fellow, why don't you try answering "Was Mormonism, according to Pratt’s argument, to become a religion primarily bound to scripture or would it continue to find its fundamental strength in the living oracles who led the church, the position espoused by Brigham Young?"