Steve Noel

Thank you for letting me know about this project at BYU. That is very interesting. There is a ton of misinformation out there about modern translations. I agree with you about the many erroneous conclusions of the schools of higher criticism. I recently joined another LDS discussion forum and was surprised to see several Latter-day Saints believing that Moses did not write the first five books of the Old Testament. As I interacted there someone indicated that this forum would be a better place to interact with more orthodox Latter-day Saints.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I have posted this on two different forums and thus far pretty much all Latter-day Saints have indicated that we believe in the same God. I suspect that most Evangelicals would say, as you have, that we do not believe in the same God. I believe Stephen Robinson may have diagnosed the source of this difference pretty well in How Wide the Divide? He says this, Apart from the comment that Evangelicals "get this backwards" I think we would agree. For Evangelicals the nature of God in contrast to the nature of humans is considered primary and essential to the gospel. Therefore, from a Latter-day Saint perspective, we believe in the same God because the difference between us is secondary, while, from an Evangelical perspective, we do not believe in the same God because the difference between is primary. I did not create this thread to argue for or against either position. I am trying to understand the LDS perspective. That being said, you have made several mistaken claims about Evangelical belief here. I do not want to get into this though at this time. I would encourage you to do your best to make sure you are accurately describing the belief of others. I know how difficult it is and have often done this myself.

Thanks. I watched a couple of the speakers. Then I took a nap. This sickness has me pretty tired.

I am with the A/G as well. You may be interested to know that there is a recent book that apparently makes a strong case for the longer ending of Mark being authentic. http://www.amazon.com/The-Original-Ending-Mark-Authenticity-ebook/dp/B00OU6OB78 This is what Craig Evans, a well respected N.T. scholar, wrote about this book: "Nicholas Lunn has thoroughly shaken my views concerning the ending of the Gospel of Mark. As in the case of most gospel scholars, I have for my whole career held that Mark 16:9-20, the so-called 'Long Ending,' was not original. But in his well-researched and carefully argued book, Lunn succeeds in showing just how flimsy that position really is. The evidence for the early existence of this ending, if not for its originality, is extensive and quite credible. I will not be surprised if Lunn reverses scholarly opinion on this important question. I urge scholars not to dismiss his arguments without carefully considering this excellent book. The Original Ending of Mark is must reading for all concerned with the gospels and early tradition concerned with the resurrection story."

Why do you distrust other translations? Have you read much about this?

We are getting snow in Michigan as well.

Ah, sorry. Thanks.

Lol, do you not know what's going on in Acts because of the old English of the KJV or for some other reason?

I have a couple questions here: Is there a reason that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints still uses the King James Version of the Bible? Do you personally read a translation that uses modern English?

I wanted to share a story I found to be very funny from Dr. Robert L. Millet, Professor of Ancient Scripture at BYU. I think you all might enjoy this as well. In chapter 4 of his book Getting at the Truth: Responding to Difficult Questions About LDS Beliefs Dr. Millet writes about the need for LDS members to have "Wisdom in Response" to outsiders asking questions. He writes that the Latter-day Saints "should stay in order" (79, emphasis his). By this he means that they should start with the basics and build upon that foundation over time. He then tells this story to illustrate his point:

Thank you for taking the time to share this information with me.

I think the reference to a "finite being" in Daniel's quote was a reference to humans. He was expressing how Evangelicals see the gap between God and humans.

Thank you for answering the question. You were not condescending at all. I appreciate the tone of your response.

I appreciate the way you've described the beliefs here. Where would you land on the question in the OP?

In another forum I asked this question and an Evangelical named Daniel Woods described really well why the Creator - creature gap is significant to us. He wrote: "For the Evangelical the divide is infinite. The difference between an infinite being (of which there is only one) and a finite being, is an infinite difference." I include that just for clarification. I do not want to argue the pros and cons of each view at this time. How would you respond to the question I asked in the OP?

Thank you for your response. I am not sure of what you wanted to convey. Could you clarify? Are you saying that what Dr. Robinson said is not what you believe?

Thank you.

I am going to be home sick all weekend and I want to check out the LDS General Conference messages. I have never seen any General Conference messages before. How does it work? What is the time frame for each day's messages? Are all the messages intended for all people or are they specific to groups (e.g. women, children, missionaries)?

I posted this on another discussion board and thought I would get thoughts here as well. I just read LDS scholar Stephen E. Robinson's "Introduction" in the book How Wide the Divide? (co-authored w/ Evangelical scholar Craig Blomberg). I am very impressed and, in all honesty, convicted by some of what Robinson writes about how Evangelicals have engaged the LDS community. That being said, I find the difference of perspective concerning the nature of God between Evangelicals and Latter-day Saints to be so significant that it is difficult to see how we can be talking about the same God. Robinson states, "We believe that God and humans are the same species of being..." (18). I cannot think of a more significant difference between Evangelicals and Latter-day Saints. For here the most basic of distinctions, the Creator - creature distinction, is erased. Blomberg calls this "the heart of traditional Christianity's disagreement with Mormonism" (96). For a point of comparison here is a representative Evangelical statement from respected Baptist theologian Millard J. Erickson. In his systematic theology book he makes a brief biblical case for the transcendence of God.*** He concludes that this is taught "throughout the Bible" (Christian Theology, 3rd ed., 283). A little later he lists some of the implications of this doctrine of transcendence. Here is the fourth implication Erickson lists,"There will always be a difference between God and humans. The gap between us is not merely a moral and spiritual disparity that originated with the fall. It is metaphysical, stemming from creation. Even when redeemed and glorified, we will still be renewed human beings. We will never become God. He will always be God and we will always be humans, so that there will always be a divine transcendence. Salvation consists in God's restoring us to what he intended us to be, not elevating us to what he is" (289). Given that this divide is very wide, would you say that Evangelicals and Latter-day Saints believe in, worship, pray to, etc. the same God? NOTE: This post is not intended as a debate/argument over which view is correct. That is a worthwhile discussion, but that is not what I'm after here. I will not be arguing for or against your viewpoint. ***Erickson explains what he means by transcendence when he writes, "By this we mean that God is separate from and independent of nature and humanity" (282).

Hi all, I am 40 years old (nearly 41), married, and the father of 3 wonderful girls. I am an evangelical Christian in Michigan. I am on my final course to finish a Bachelor Degree in Religion / Christian Worldview at Luther Rice College & Seminary. Lord willing, I will begin working on an MA in Apologetics in the Fall. I look forward to engaging in civil discussions with the folks here. I signed up for another LDS discussion board and someone mentioned that this board might be a better place for hearing from more orthodox Latter-day Saints.