Reece

Thanks to everyone who took the time to thoughtfully and respectfully reply and even site sources. Love, light, and laughter....

Interesting that you assume I'm not seeking a deeper understanding or reverence. Also ironically you point out my thoughts...about the place not being important, but the ordinance.

Just what i said: that I was sorry they took it that way. If I exclaim "Your dress!" (And in my mind I'm thinking it's beautiful) but in your mind you're thinking it's ugly and my exclamation was rude as it was obviously pertaining to the ugliness, you may state you thought I was rude. I wouldn't apologize....as I didn't do anything rude. I would be sorry that you FELT offended. That is the difference. Hence the problem with the written word. You can't see facial expressions or hear vocal inflictions that would give very meaningful clues as to the intent of what is said.

Just what i said: that I was sorry they took it that way. If I exclaim "Your dress!" (And in my mind I'm thinking it's beautiful) but in your mind you're thinking it's ugly and my exclamation was rude as it was obviously pertaining to the ugliness, you may state you thought I was rude. I wouldn't apologize....as I didn't do anything rude. I would be sorry that you FELT offended. That is the difference. Hence the problem with the written word. You can't see facial expressions or hear vocal inflictions that would give very meaningful clues as to the intent of what is said.

Oh....so as long we hold the same opinions polite conversation is ok? How about you just state what you believe, or expound on how you understand things. If this truly is your belief why didn't you just say, "I believe the leaders are told what to do by God, and that's good enough for me" (for example). What I was getting at is; IS there somewhere that outlines where and how they are built, etc or is it just a decision by the men in charge because that's how it's been done? The questions were answered kindly and adequately by several others. I don't need further expounding. In my experience, someone firm in their beliefs doesn't get all riled up, sarcastic and accusatory when someone states an opposing opinion and wants to discuss. (Just food for thought). I in no way believe I'm right about everything. I state my thoughts and welcome others input. I really am done here....as it is counter productive at this point. Thanks for all the thoughtful responses and cited sources!

I can quote several people being sarcastic and belittling toward me. Please show me where I was belittling. Saying I don't understand something, or asking why shouldn't be taken personally by anyone. If I were an investigator I sure wouldn't be continuing my investigation if I were treated as I have been. And actually, most comments were very thoughtful. It was only two people who were rude in t It wasn't intended to be an apology because as I've said....I wasn't trying to bash belittle, etc. I wasn't even thinking it...so I AM sorry if someone took it that way and I can't apologize for something I didn't do or am not sorry for. heir responses.

I can quote several people being sarcastic and belittling toward me. Please show me where I was belittling. Saying I don't understand something, or asking why shouldn't be taken personally by anyone. If I were an investigator I sure wouldn't be continuing my investigation if I were treated as I have been. And actually, most comments were very thoughtful. It was only two people who were rude in t It wasn't intended to be an apology because as I've said....I wasn't trying to bash belittle, etc. I wasn't even thinking it...so I AM sorry if heir responses.

I can quote several people being sarcastic and belittling toward me. Please show me where I was belittling. Saying I don't understand something, or asking why shouldn't be taken personally by anyone. If I were an investigator I sure wouldn't be continuing my investigation if I were treated as I have been. And actually, most comments were very thoughtful. It was only two people who were rude in their responses.

Well if you took something I said as belittling, that was not my intent.

If we are smart, we will avoid coffee, tea, AND hot drinks. We now have modern science to back up the health inhibiting claims of old. I do appreciate your wanting to get to the source though!

Referring to, "If I tell you that it is very important not to point a gun at your head and pull the trigger... You have a choice... you can do it anyway because I did not explain why... or you can trust that I know what I am saying. And you should be able to trust God a lot more then me and have Faith that he gives instructions for a reason. Instead of belittling and thinking you with your limited information can out think God on what is important." I'm not sure why people keep jumping to he conclusion that since I don't have all the answers and want to discuss my thoughts...I don't have faith or a testimony or I'm bashing the church. Apparently, you don't have the answers either. But since I voice my questions it feels threatening to some. There's another choice: don't pull the trigger, and then ask why....and keep trying to find out why. The article just posted on this site was coincidentally very relevant here. http://lds.net/blog/faith/belief/dont-get-testimony-take-one/

So far...no one has the answers to the questions I have; not even the prophets. It's not about how important we are told they are but why specifically. Is it to be with our families forever? If so...there are a lot of what ifs. Is it just about being sealed to God? If so, why do we teach everyone (especially children) that it's about having a family forever. Is it only about a ritual and place to remind us of the eternal plan and that this life is hard but temporary? Is it about the promises we make there? If so, why does where we make them matter? If any prophet has answered those questions clearly I missed it, and would like to read it. I just don't think we can truly understand it all in our mortal state; but I do like to hear other perspectives.

Thanks for your thoughts. This is what I think: (and please dont assume I'm saying anyone is wrong or criticizing...I'm just thinking out loud for the sake of discussion) If God tells us to do something we do it. We have faith in this church that we have leaders who receive revelation and we follow it. I still believe we use our own reasoning. So...if I'm asked to do something and see no harm in it, I do it in faith whether or not I see the benefit of reasoning, but it doesn't stop me from trying to understand Gods ways. Usually with my faith and action I have experiences that bless me and I start to understand more. But sometimes I don't. I could be wrong, but there are clear reasons (in scripture) to be baptized and subsequently take the sacrament to renew that. The temple is less clear; especially when you start factoring in step families, outliving spouses, etc. We aren't even really sure if Jesus himself was sealed to spouse, or taught that we should be. There are some personal and current blessings, such as being able to get out of the world for a while and see from an eternal perspective, and learning about our ancestors. I feel others can do that without a temple built by our church. It is definitely easier for us, and so I may argue its for US, not because God requires it or maybe he only requires it so that we do it. I do believe it's for us, not because He needs the glory or a house built in His name. As for the other blessings (being with a family in the eternities) as I have stated, seems muddled since we have a minority of people who fit the ideal scenario. Of course there are blessings from keeping the covenants in the temple. So far in my life....I haven't experienced anything that another couple couldn't also experience by being faithful to each other, praying, etc. I do it because it's what we are taught to do, and keep trying to understand more of the reasons.

I'm sorry you seem to have been offended by the word immature. I've explained that in my mind I just don't see the enormous significance of the PLACE one makes a promise and commitment, and have said that maybe that is MY immature thinking as I am human...and I perfectly trust that God will work everything out. Stating the things I wonder about isn't criticizing. It's opening a discussion for the purposes of learning (or so I thought). I'm welcome to ANY other opinions or thoughts. Just don't tell me I'm wrong, etc.

I have lived through both sides of this horrible tragedy. I have been the cheater and I have been cheated on. Looking back I have a clearer vision and hope I can help. Your husband's infidelity has little to nothing to do with you, and everything to do with his own insecurities, addictions, or lack of being able to express his own needs and have them met. Try to not let your mind go to it being your fault in any way. As one who cheated I know it's a HARD thing to escape. I felt I could never be IN love with my spouse again. I thought the grass was greener on the other side. It's not. You almost always trade one set of problems for another (that goes for both of you). When I cheated, initially my spouse was forgiving and loving and wanted to find a way back into love. THAT, along with not wanting to hurt my children made me love him and want to work on it. However, he could never get over the jealousy. His random hurtful remarks and following me to places made me give up after two years of trying to mend it. So in short....love him. He's hurting more than you...which is so hard to get when you've been betrayed. The book "Believing Christ" has helped a lot. In my current marriage, I was cheated on. He also had a porn addiction. Our sex life was amazing, but still not enough (only because he was an addict). Call it karma I suppose. But I must say, having been on the other end probably saved us. When I found out, he continued the lie and wasn't repentant, so I left. It nearly killed me. However, I kept praying his heart would soften. In the meantime, he was lonely. He realized his intermittent sexual highs would never give him he lasting joy a real relationship could. He started praying to see things for what they were and from my (and my children's perspectives). After a 5 month separation, we met to talk. I still absolutely loved him. He still loved me. He said my love for him even after all that he put me through is what changed him forever. We still have struggles of course, but I could not be happier. We both changed in profound ways because of pain and a desire to find joy and peace. We still have to be careful. We talk and pray and made some ground rules, and thank God every day for our marriage. This was the short version but the moral of it all is....1) The pain you and your children will suffer by divorce will outweigh the work you will have to do to save it. (Although God does always give us a plan B if we can't find our way). 2) LOVE and don't judge, or keep him stuck in guilt. He already feels crappy....even if you don't see it. Make ground rules but let him know he is better than the sins and you love him unconditionally. Try to understand how you can help meet his needs without taking the blame. 3) Complete honesty on both parts will help rebuild trust and keep resentments and temptation at bay. Be open about sexual expectations, suspicions, insecurities, temptations, everything. No passwords, no private email/social media accounts, etc. My heart goes out to you. (((Hugs))) Edited 24 June by Reece

I'm sorry you seem to have been offended by the word immature. I've explained that in my mind I just don't see the enormous significance of the PLACE one makes a promise and commitment, and have said that maybe that is MY immature thinking as I am human...and I perfectly trust that God will work everything out. Stating the things I wonder about isn't criticizing. It's opening a discussion for the purposes of learning (or so I thought). I'm welcome to ANY other opinions or thoughts. Just don't tell me I'm wrong, etc.

I agree....it's a perfect knowledge and a perfect love. And at the risk of being attacked for my curiosity again; that brings me back to my original post. So I wonder, because I look at people, very good, loving, wise, people with happy righteous families who I believe will have and be perfectly intelligent and loving in the eternities. I don't think because they chose not to go through a ceremony in a specific building that I will be "above" them. I know, we believe they will have the opportunity to be sealed, etc. my mind just takes me to why is that necessary? I don't need an answer here. I have absolute faith that A perfect God will have it all worked out. I just like to discuss it and get others views on the topic. And for the record (responding to a different response); I view church policy and opinions in the church differently than God and his plan. We (as humans in a religion) are far from perfect and we do NOT know everything! So to say I'm calling God's plan or his word anything but perfect is wrong.

You are just wrong. Wrong about my intent, the things I wonder about, etc. I feel you have completely misread it, judged, criticized and think you are superior. I think it's wrong to not discuss things in an adult and loving manner. NONE of us have the answers. Having questions and wanting to get others takes on things we do not know is not faithless or having "trauma" LOL! Maybe it's projection? I see why so many look at the church as judgmental and self righteous. Anyway...I DO appreciate the kind and thoughtful replies. Peace out.

You are just wrong. Wrong about my intent, the things I wonder about, etc. I feel you have completely misread it, judged, criticized and think you are superior. I think it's wrong to not discuss things in an adult and loving manner. NONE of us have the answers. Having questions and wanting to get others takes on things we do not know is not faithless or having "trauma" LOL! Maybe it's projection? I see why so many look at the church as judgmental and self righteous. Anyway...I DO appreciate the kind and thoughtful replies. Peace out.

I DO get the sealing ordinance. Hats why I didn't say I didn't. And...wow. You really assume a lot of things that aren't there.

Well actually, you reiterate some of my points. If it has only to do with eternal MARRIAGES, that's more simple but still brings up questions, such as; when a guy is divorced, remarries, is sealed to a second spouse but he first never remarries. Or....a spouse dies after sealing and a woman spends her life with someone else whom she can't be sealed to, etc. To say it only has to do with sealing a married couple ignores the fact that we push children being sealed to parents (as my adopted children were to me), and as we do work for the dead and seal all children to parents. In my humble opinion, if we focused only on the sealing of married couples and there weren't a double standard with men and women and the number of people they could be sealed to, it would be fairly straight forward and simple. Just being sealed to your spouse, and therefore back to our Ftaher in Heaven. I absolutely don't think it's about who you are going to live with, and believe it's far more about being sealed to your spouse to become a God and Godess. So my question is, why isn't that what we stress (especially to primary children who think they won't have a family in the after life if theirs isn't the ideal situation)? You're right. It IS immature thinking. I believe it is also immature thinking that we will all have to be linked generationally through temple covenant to enjoy all the blessings the Father has to offer; as this cannot be the story for many many people due to divorce, remarriage after deaths, adoption, etc., regardless of their individual worthiness.

Fair enough. But still...if it is THE work of the church, and THE purpose, as has been said or implied, I believe we should understand it. it's pushed from primary "families can be together forever"; which is a beautiful concept. Until...said family isn't together on earth...and questions arise with no real answers. Thus the discussion.

This response made the most sense to me, personally. Thank you. I did realize the worth of the gifts given to the infant Jesus. To me, that made more sense, as he was mortal, and born into humble circumstance. I don't believe we have an obligation to take care of others INSTEAD of building temples. It's sort of like capitalism...if the church raises the revenue it can do as it pleases with it, and it is nice to have a more celestial place of refuge to covenant, etc. I just wonder how much more accessible they would be if they were scaled down a bit, in order to build more. I also liked the comment about us mortals needing the extravagance to sort of remind us of our celestial origins and the ultimate goal, rather than God needing it.

I don't know why it's assumed I have "trauma" or don't have faith. I obviously am moving forward with faith without having all the answers. To those who have said or insinuated I am traumatized or lack faith; you think it's wrong to have questions? I certainly don't believe we will ever have all the answers here on earth. But I also don't believe it's wrong to question things. In fact it's either naive or conceited not to. I have enjoyed and appreciate most of the thoughts given here. The gospel is true. Its members, even apostles, and their interpretations are not perfect. Discussion is good. We have a lot of answers others don't, but when we stop wondering, discussing, and discovering, we stop progressing. I guess to ME, the gospel is about LOVE and service, and yes, families. The work in the temple, which is sealing us back to God is real work, but still, the majority of that IS symbolism of covenants and the after life, and when we look at it literally it starts to not make sense unless all families stay together. I will just keep believing that God is good and if I do what I can and take advantage of the atonement I will not have sadness or miss family members in the afterlife. Anyway....thanks for the input.