Shath

I think I found my answer in this thread and another on Mormons. I do not think some Mormons are Christian. I think their gospel is Christian. Telling one to go away is not Christian. This is a bad Christmas gift to me, but if that is what it is, that is what I get. I have every reason to hate Mormons after what they did to me. Some are sympathetic, some here hate me I think. I came to find answers, but some condemned me, the victim. I think Mormons may have a problem with this. I read about BYU and though it was a different victim blaming, they blamed victims too. Thank you to those who were nice in the thread and others. Those who hated on me, thanks for chasing me away from the Mormon church. I have found it is probably not what I am looking for. Some Mormons are nice, but I don't think Mormons are Christian. It is not their gospel, but how they act. I found they misunderstand charity. They condone discrimination and racism. They do not look to find solutions to why minorities do not go to Mormon churches, even if Minorities have no problems with the Book of Mormon (most of those I think are White Evangelicals that lean far right). They at best ignore the discrimination, at the middle blame the victim, and at worst are the bullies who send others like me to the hospital. I wish my answer was different. I thought about what you wrote for several days before deciding this. Sadly, I think this is my last time here. I don't know if I will keep looking or not. Right now I think I like the Mormon gospel, but I don't like Mormons very much. That is a problem I think. Thank you for your help in my decision. I thank those who were nice, and those who were not nice. They both helped me decide.

I came here to try to find hope that Mormons were different than what I see in my life. I find that they are not. There are some good, but many bad. They do not understand charity. They hate others. Instead of reading their Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants and teaching that, they use far right analogies. They seem to use Conservative thoughts as their religion. It is not open to anyone. It is only open to Far Rights. It seems more exclusive to Far Right. Why do they think a far right political ideas are their religion? It excludes all others. I am not far right. I think I'm more in the middle. I don't want it to end like this. I would like a reason to find a Mormon church I could be a part of that lives the Book of Mormon and Bible. I don't think I'm going to find that here though. I am sad, it is like there is no hope of finding a church that believes the Book of Mormon today. I wish there was though.

Jesus didn't stop helping others because he helped me. You are using a flawed analogy. I am NOT a Mormon, I came to learn about Mormons. It is becoming clear why Mormons are mean to me in school though. They do not understand basic charity. They teach how to be evil to others instead. Is this how Mormons think to convert people? By trying to redefine ideas like what charity is? I came to try to find any reason to be a Mormon. Instead, I am finding reinforcement of my worst fears about Mormons. I am actually sad about this.

You give a person a fish today. The second is used by evil people in a flawed way. They think they don't have to give anything and that's normally their excuse. Some of them try to use it to say they this is why they don't give help to disabled. A disabled person may not have the ability to fish, but you insist that this is what you need to do. You give a person a fish today, tomorrow and when they need to eat. That is charity. You try teaching someone who will never be able to fish to fish, even if they understand it, it is stupid. It's giving an excuse of why you don't give them a fish in the first place. If Jesus did this, we would all go to hell. I am glad he had charity and gave us what we could not get. I have seen a LOT of evil from Mormons. I love the Book of Mormon, but a lot of Mormons don't live it. I am beginning to see why Mormons do a lot Of evil things. I don't understand why though. Why don't they live their religion? I want to join the religion taught in the Book of Mormon. I cannot see it in the members of the Mormon church. It is confusing.

Christ fed people not just for one day, not just for a year, but for forty years. He went to the poor, the disabled, the helpless. It doesn't matter if you try to teach a man who can't fish to fish...he still can't fish. Charity isn't normally there to help those who can help themselves, but those who cannot. Jesus came to help us because we can not help ourselves. We depend on him entirely. He could teach us to overcome it, but we are already full of sin. We cannot fish even if we know how. Without his charity, we go to hell. Jesus never said I help you to help yourself. He came to save us. He is the Messiah. This is a Mormon thing. I do not know why Mormons say what they do. Charity is not something worked for, but freely given. It is true love. Love that giveth without any expectation of receiving anything back. Mormons should understand charity. The Book of Mormon is full of explaining it. The Bible is full of explaining it. The Doctrine and Covenants touches upon it (and Consecration is based on it). This is a Christian idea also. I think the Book of Mormon is Christian. Maybe some Mormons are too. Mormons who expect work for something and call it charity might not be. They do not understand a basic Christian Principle. Catholics feed millions a day. They house millions a day. They may spend more in a month on charity than Mormons do in 10 year s(40 million), or what Mormons call charity. Do Mormons really understand charity?

I'm still at school. Not sure why a boss would try to guilt another into doing something optional. Teachers give homework but that's not optional. Why do Mormons say this. It is against their Book of Mormon and Bible. Mosiah says that we should give and not think bad things about another person. I think it is also Mosiah that says that we really don't own anything. God gives us everything. We are beggars. We beg him. If we think bad of those who beg we judge us. You have that unjust steward thread. You can read it to say the same thing. How we treat others is how we are treated. How we judge is how we are judged. We don't earn anything. It is given to us by God. We should be glad for that. We can work. Adam was told to work. But charity is not to give and ask, it is only to give. Jesus is our example. He healed without asking for money. He gave without asking for things back. He asked for people to worship his father. A charity is giving to those who need. We can give for charity, but we don't ask for things back. This is Christian. This is what the Book of Mormon tells us. It is also in the Bible.

How is that considered help then. That's considered paying them. If you force people to work, you need to pay them a fair wage. Charity does not work by forced labor. I do not know this part of the church. Why don't they hire a janitor? If members want to help clean, they can. If they do not, why would you want to force them to do that? If someone needs money, don't call it charity, just hire them for a job. You can pay them the minimum wage or whatever to clean the church. I know in some churches that is a full time job. I think it would take 8 hours for a good clean after a church meeting. That means you can pay them a wage of 8 dollars and they get 64 dollars after each church use. Mormons meet at least two days a week. I think they meet three or four times sometimes. That can be 128 to 256 dollars a week. Why not pay people instead of forcing them to do something they don't want to do? Why do they call it charity if they force people to work for it. If they don't pay them, isn't that illegal unless it is completely voluntary?

I don't know why some of you have a problem understanding these guys. They were pretty clear. Only a dunce couldn't understand what they said. I don't think people here are dunces, but I think some may be mean. It seems clear to me that the Mormons officially do not believe Adam was a product of evolution from Apes. That isn't bad to me. He posted the words that they said, and they said that Adam was not from evolution. I think you know this, so why are you picking at this? I think it is also clear that a lot of Mormons also believe in evolution. I think many Mormons believe Adam was a product of evolution. I think the Mormon prophet does not. I think we can both see everyone's point and agree to get along instead of fighting about this. I do not know. I think that some Mormons take Luke 3 literally. That means many things. It does not mean Adam is begotten, but it says he was a son. I think some Mormons do not take it literally. They are like other Christians like that. Biology teaches me about evolution in school. Our teacher also believes in Genesis. I'm not sure he was supposed to tell us that. He doesn't see a problem. I think some Mormons are like him. I think other Mormons are not like him. I think some Mormons are like creationists. I don't know what I think yet. I don't think it's very important. I think Jesus is more important. I think Jesus is what we should think about and focus on. His teachings are what are important in our lives. We should follow his example.

We live in California. We lived in Utah for a little while which is where I met missionaries. My parents didn't like Mormons so we met elsewhere with another kid. The kids there called me a Chink, Jap, and other names. They didn't attack me, but called me names a lot. Made kung fu sounds at me. I didn't feel comfortable. We moved to California. There are a lot more Asians out here were we are now and a lot more Hispanics. The Mormons here have actually attacked me for no reason. I don't know why, I didn't do anything to them but go to their church a few times. They go out of their way to make my life miserable. If I say something in class they act like dolts (I actually cuss a lot more, but I know this site doesn't like me to use words like that, so this is the best word I can think of. I have other words I'd call them) who pretend they are confused. Everyone else knows what I am saying and the teacher will have to stop the one acting like that. I hate it when this happens to me. I can't imagine why people would do that to their own people that believe like they do. I'm nerdy in school. They might see me as an easy target. I don't fight, even when they try to make me fight. No one should be treated like that though.

When I first read I tried Nephi. Second Nephi is boring. I put it down for a little time. I picked it up and started reading Mosiah, near the middle. I couldn't put it down. I read and finished the entire book of Mormon. I would say my favorite parts are either Alma or 3rd Nephi (after chapter 10) and 4th Nephi. I don't go to church much. The background of my family is Buddhist. I am not Buddhist. I've gone to Catholic, Methodist and Baptist most. I've visited with Pentecostals...but some of that was way far out there too crazy for me. If not crazy strange, Pentecostals are the opposite, much too serious. I also don't believe what they say. Methodist, the younger ones I know, don't practice what they teach either. They are not mean, but they are immoral. They don't believe in chastity, or the ones my age. Baptists seem the nicest. They seem to do the most in what they teach. I believe there must be authority from God. No authority, it is not okay from heaven. That leaves Catholic, Mormon, or Muslim. I'm not Muslim. That leaves Catholic or Mormon. The Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants are what I believe. I think they are true. I can't understand why the Mormons are not good in my school though and why they treat me like this. I know we have several minorities that are Mormons that don't go to church. They tell me they believe but do not go because Mormons don't like them. I have gone to church with the missionaries, but the kids that beat me up were there and we didn't get along. I saw what the other people told me, they don't have any minority leaders. They think the minorities don't have enough faith and that is why they are inactive. My friends told me the truth though, they don't go because they don't like the discrimination and persecution. The whites just want to feel that they are better and don't care about the real reasons. The whites think it's because they are inactive and don't have enough faith. That's BS. I have one friend who goes (older person) and I heard what they said when he wasn't around. These people weren't nice about him and he's the only active minority in the ward. I can't go to that church though. They boys broke my nose. I was sitting at lunch, reading math and not bothering anyone. One of them came over and hit me in the face for no reason. That broke my nose and then went back with four others and laughed at me. I am not a fighting person, but even if I was, I can't take five of them on. They know this and they mocked me about it. I can't go to a church with these people. I want to go to this church if it had people that didn't treat me like this, but I can't go to church with these guys. I know we should love all people, but after this an other things, I can't. Hate is too kind to say how I feel about them. I shouldn't, but I can't help it, I hate those boys. I love the Book of Mormon, but I don't see what I can do about it.

On the word of wisdom. My view is a lot of Mormons are hypocrites. Many are not hypocrites. You have Mormons that try to do their best and those who do not. Word of Wisdom was first just a word of wisdom. It was not a command. Later it became a commandment. It is a word that even the most weak are supposed to keep. It is the minimum. What they tell you to do (no coffee, no tea, no tobacco smoking, no alcohol drinking) is the minimum you should do. You can do more (run, exercise, eat wheat, eat meat sparingly, don't drink hot drinks, and things like that). A Lot Mormons if they keep the word of wisdom, only want to do the minimum they can. They don't want to try to do more than that. It's like that a lot with a lot Mormons in what I see. I see some that also have a lot more things they don't do (no caffeine, no e-cigs, no drugs, exercise). They take the Word of Wisdom as a minimum and I think are trying to do better than just the minimum. Sometimes they are a little too much into it, but they probably are not hypocrites.

I'm not LDS so take this with a grain of salt. I have studied Mormons for YEARS though. They say that the there are the first principles and ordinances of the church. These are the things you do outside the temple. In order to do or be the person who does the ordinance in the temple, this is a different ordinance. So baptism for the dead is a different ordinance than baptism. To be over any temple ordinance, you had to be endowed in the temple. You could do the ordinance as a person (so person baptized as proxy), but the person who does it (does the baptizing) has to be endowed (anyone know why it's called an endowment? I don't, but wonder why). This is a rule that's been set for lots and lots of years, at least what I hear. I don't know why it changed. Maybe they are going to change other rules about the temple? This might be the first rule change. Next they will change the rules for other things? I don't know. You could ask the people higher up, maybe they could tell you.

And THIS is why I have had bukos problems with Mormons for YEARS. When I was a kid, most of the Mormons were pretty major bullies. They picked on me and were basically pretty awful and mean. I have read the BoM though, and I have felt something, but Mormons continually seem to show they are NOT Christian in their actions. I can understand what he said, and I'm not even a Mormon. I'm confused that you don't understand your own church's position. Are you saying that those essays he posted were the church's position in all things? Maybe you should study your Bible and other Mormon books more. They contradict those essays sometimes. It seems to me you are just picking on him.

A little about me. I am Asian American. I've studied Mormonism a lot. If it was just the religion, I'd probably be a died and true believer of it. I have a problem with the Mormons, or those who are members. The worst people I've ever dealt with are Mormons. They are racist, and have almost always excluded minorities from what I've seen. I have a friend who is a big time Mormon. He's one of the best people I know. He is not a High Priest. He's never been a Mormon Leader. He is mocked at times from the members I've seen when he isn't around. He's also Asian American. He's one that many of the minorities hold in high regard. The Mormons treat him like trash, and he's a Mormon himself. The entire Mormon leadership is White in our area. None of the Asian or Hispanic Members go to church because they feel the discrimination. They don't feel represented. The whites do NOT understand this. They think these people are inactive because they are not faithful or some stupid idea like that. The real reason is they don't want to deal with that stupid stuff that the white members toss at them, and since they don't have any minorities in their leadership, no one tells them (not that they would listen to any of us). My friend, he goes to church anyways. I don't understand why, and he has given up trying to explain it to me. None of us Asians or Hispanics understand why he goes to a church where they treat him like trash. In school, these Mormons bullied me and my sisters and brothers. They picked fights with us. The tormented and hurt us. Even when we moved to other places, the Mormon kids were like this. I hate it. This is odd. I LOVE the Book of Mormon. I love the things it teaches. It's like it speaks to me. I can't understand why people treat me this way if they really believe in this stuff. I am very confused over this. If I could, I would join a church that believed in the stuff I read in the Book of Mormon. I would join it in an instant. However, I hate a lot of the Mormons that I've met. They are hateful and horrible people in many ways. There are a few good ones, but the worst people I've ever met have all been Mormons. I can't see the religion with the people. I love the idea that is taught in the books, but I hate the people that have hurt me for years. How can I be a Mormon if it means I am part of those people? How can I believe God leads a church where the people are like this? I know a leader in our area, he is cheating on his wife. I am sure his wife and family do not know. He is rich, and he is white. I don't understand why he is the church leader and my friend is not. I can only guess it's because he is rich and white and my friend is not. You might ask why I am here then. I am here because I want to believe. I want to find a reason to be a part of the Mormon church. I really like the teachings and the Book of Mormon. I have really big problems with how the LDS church is run, the way I've been treated, how I see others like me treated. I REALLY want to believe. I know some good people (the friend I mentioned above for starters) that are Mormons. They seem the exception rather than the norm thus far. I really really really want to believe there is a church that does as the Book of Mormon teaches. It's not the gospel that I have problems with, but the people in the church. I cannot seem to reconcile the two. I know it may seem stupid to many here, but this is a very big obstacle for me. These people hate me. It's very hard to join a church where people hate you or think less of you because you are not white, or some other reason. If the church is true, how can I overcome this? I ask, because I want to. I think the Book of Mormon is true. I think the Mormon gospel is true. I really want to find a church which believe this stuff to. I really want to believe. But I hate the interactions I've had with many Mormons. When I say I want to believe, this is true. If I could have anything, it would be a church where the Book of Mormon is taught (along with the Doctrine and Covenants), and everyone is loved and everyone believes and loves everyone else. I want this so bad I could almost taste it. I don't know where to find it, but I really really want this. I've wanted it for years. I've even gone to the Mormon church, but I did not feel welcome. I do not know what to do. If there was another Mormon church that taught the same things, but we all loved each other, and everyone was seen as equal, and people accepted me, that's what I'm looking for. I really really want to find it. Is there anything you can do to help me?