Jersey Boy

29 Abraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.

Can you cite for me just one post-D&C 76 quote from any LDS Church General Authority, past or present, in which the Church leader teaches that there are not three post-resurrection degrees of heavenly glory?

Then how do you account for the plain and unambiguous doctrinal declarations in D&C 76 that there are three discrete heavenly kingdoms of glory that saved humanity will inherit after the final judgement? The 76th section teaches us that the Celestial glory can be likened to the brightness of the sun, the Terrestrial glory can be likened to the reflected brightness of the moon, and the Telestial glory can be likened to the brightness of the distant stars? Do you reject the teachings of D&C 76 pertaining to these three kingdoms of glory? It’s also plainly obvious that in LDS theology there are two kinds of Telestial kingdoms, one of them being the dwelling place of fallen premillennial mortal mankind and the other being the dwelling place of those saved resurrected human beings who are no able to inherit nor appreciate an everlasting existence in either the Celestial or Terrestrial kingdoms of glory. This is very basic and easy to understand LDS doctrine and I’m somewhat mystified that there seem to be members of the Church who either don’t believe in the three degrees of post-resurrected glory or have somehow missed it.

Your mistake is precipitated by the fact that the whoremongers and liars spoken of in Revelation never repent, while the whoremongers and liars spoken of in D&C do eventually repent, and for this reason they suffer only UNTIL the time that Christ has perfected his work. You’re assuming the the whoremongers and liars in Revelation are in precisely the same category as those spoken of in D&C 76 who do eventually repent and are relieved of their sufferings, Because of the similarities of language and terminology in the two verses, the one verse being from Revelation and the other from D&C 76, you’ve incorrectly assumed they are both speaking of people who are in the exact same category — but they are not. The Book of Revelation tells us the whoremomhers and liars referred to there do suffer forever; meanwhile the sufferings of the liars and whoremomgers spoken of in D&C 76 do eventually come to an end. While it’s understandable why you made an incorrect assumption because of linguistic similarities, nevertheless, you did make an incorrect assumption. This is why it’s never a good idea to seize scripture verses out of context.

There’s only one way your unorthodox ideas can be made to harmonize with the Doctrine & Covenants and that’s only if the two lower kingdoms of glory are somehow encompassed within the celestial kingdom. In other words, if you’re right the Celestial Kingdom will have one class of saved people dwelling within it who will only be able to enjoy the immediate presence of the Son but not be able to enjoy the presence of the Father (those of the terrestrial glory); and there will also be those dwelling there who will not have the opportunity enjoy the immediate presence of either the Son or the Father, but will instead be ministered to by the Holy Spirt and by beings of a terrestrial degree glory. If this is so, then that means we’re right back where we started from with saved beings of three different degrees of glory, the only difference being that in some sort of technical sense they all coexist as vastly unequal citizens within one celestial kingdom. On another point, there is every reason to believe those spoken of in verse 103 will eventually be saved because of what’s clearly set forth in verse 107. It reads... 106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, UNTIL the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work; (D&C 107) The above verse plainly indicates that the wicked in verse 103, those who are cast into hell (the spirit prison), will suffer in hell for only a limited period time, and that the time of the end of their sufferings will arrive at the time when Christ shall have perfected his work. This is why we are told they indeed will suffer, but only UNTIL the time Christ has successfully subdued his enemies. Meanwhile, we know that the sons of perdition will continue to suffer forever because there has never been a promise given to the effect that those consigned to outer darkness will suffer only until the arrival of a certain period in time. The reason why the sons of perdition continue to suffer without relief is because they are the only ones whom Christ is unable to subdue in a spirit of repentance, and this because they cannot be forced to be saved against their will.

You fail to understand that in D&C 76 the wicked mentioned in verse 103 are subjected to an ongoing salvative process that starts will a sinful state of alienation from God on earth, followed by being thrust into hell (the spirit prison) at the time of death. After being thrust into hell (NOT THE TELESTIAL KINGDOM) these same sinners are subjected to what is described as “the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God;” a place wherein those so consigned suffer for their sins.until they are subdued to the divine will by God’s tough love. After being subdued to God by being allowed to suffer the consequences for their own sins, they are finally forgiven because they sincerely bow the knee to the God the Father and confess to him that Jesus Christ is their Christ and Savior. They are then resurrected and inherit a dominion in God’s Telestial Kingdom of heavenly GLORY. The only way you can be correct is if the Telestial Kingdom and the outer darkness of the everlasting hell wherein the sons of perdition dwell are one and the same place. They are not... 83 These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit. 84 These are they who are thrust down to hell. (sound familiar?) 85 These are they who shall not be redeemed (meaning they WILL eventually be redeemed) from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work. 86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial; 87 And the terrestrial through the ministration of the celestial. 88 And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation. 89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding; (D&C 76) As anyone can see, the Telestial Kingdom is not at all like hell, yet D&C 76 clearly tells us the individuals spoken of in verse 103 WILL inherit the Telestial Kingdom. I’m quite sure there isn’t a single General Authority who would agree that the Telestial Kingdom and the Hell of the sons of perdition are one and the same.

D&C 76 and D&C 138 both make it quite clear that at the time of death the unrepentant wicked, such as the whoremongers, sorcerers, adulterers and lovers of lies spoken of in verse 103, are consigned to dwell in the spirit prison (hell). While in the spirit prison, the wicked who have not yet committed the sin unpardonable are visited by messengers of light from paradise , ministering angels who continue the work of bringing sinful souls unto Christ and repentance in the world of departed spirits. The wicked spirits in the spirit prison who come unto Christ and repent will eventually inherit a telestial GLORY in the Telestial Kingdom. D&C 138 makes this very plain... 30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead. 31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repentof their sins and receive the gospel. 32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets. (D&C 138) The sins of whoremongering, sorcery, adultery and lying are not in the same category as the unpardonable sin, that ultimate sin for which there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come. Whoremongering, sorcery, adultry and lying are all forgivable for those who come unto Christ and sincerely repent. Those who have not committed the unpardonable sin are consigned to suffer in ‘the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God’ until they are subdued through God’s tough love and learn the hard lesson that “wickedness never was happiness,” and that Christ is the only way to true joy and peace. Eventually, all but those who have committed the unpardonable sin will be delivered from the spirit prison, resurrected and given an inheritance in the Telestial Kingdom of GLORY. Remember, there is no glory of God in the realm outer darkness, but there is a measure of the God’s glory in the Telestial Kingdom. Your mistake has its origin in the fact that you fail to realize all sins, except for the unpardonable sin, are forgiveable.

As Wade says, you are in error because you’ve taken verse 103 out of context. I will now quote the verse in proper context and show you why you are in error: 103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie. Because you did not read and analyze the verses following 103 you’ve made a mistake, thinking the inheritors of the Telestial Kingdom will enter the Telestial Kingdom as unrepentant liars, sorcerers, whoremongers and lovers & makers of lies — they will not, as you will soon realize. 104 These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth. As a consequence of their sinful behavior, those spoken of in verse 103 are deprived God’s blessings on earth. 105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. As a consequence of their sinfulness, the people spoken of in verse 103 are cursed of God while dwelling on the earth. 106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work; Because of their sinfulness and failure to come unto Christ and repent, these people are cast into hell where they are punished for their sins and suffer the wrath of Almighty God UNTIL the appointed time when Christ shall have finally subdued all his enemies under his feet. 107 When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome and have trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God. As a consequence of their experience of suffering for their sins in hell, the place where those unrepentant sinners who have not committed the unpardonable sin are exposed to the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God, the people spoken of in verse 103 will eventually be humbled (subdued) and in sincere repentance come unto Christ and repent of their sins. This is why this verse says Christ will be able to deliver up the kingdom to his Father spotless, for in the end all but the sons of perdition will be subdued and find forgiveness through the atoning power of Christ. 108 Then shall he be crowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the throne of his power to reign forever and ever. Because he will have fulfilled the Father’s will by successfully saving all of Father’s children, with the exception of the implacably hardened and totally unrepentant sons of perdition, Christ will be crowned as the victorious Savior of all mankind. 109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore; A very large portion of the Father’s children will, in the resurrection, inherit the Telestial Kingdom of of GLORY (remember, those who inhabit the realm of outer darkness will inherit no kingdom glory in the resurrection). 110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever; After enduring the process verse 107 calls the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God, the formerly unrepentant sinners spoken of in verse 103 will eventually believe, repent (see D&C 138) and humbly worship God the Father, confessing by the power of the Spirit that Jesus Christ is the one who saved them. 111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared; Rather than ending up as resurrected sons of perdition who will dwell forever in outer darkness, the formerly unrepentant individuals spoken of in verse 103 will eventually inherit a dominion of glory in one of the Fathers many heavenly mansions.

Thank you!

The scriptures repeatedly tell us that in order to successfully offer an infinite and eternal atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world that the Lord Jesus Christ would be required to drink to the very dregs the bitter cup of God’s divine wrath, a figurative cup overflowing with divine retribution that would otherwise have to have been poured out upon humanity in the form of an endless punishment for which there is no hope of relief. Upon leaving Gethsemane and the sufferings he endured there, the Savior made it clear to Peter that he had not yet consumed the entire contents of the bitter cup of God’s wrath, and, therefore, that more suffering for sin — the dreadful experience of having to endure the exquisite agonies that can only be known by being totally cut off from the loving presence of God — were required of him. Upon exiting the garden the Lord uttered the following solemn words... “11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it? (John 18) If the Savior had already consumed to the dregs the bitter cup of God’s divine wrath while in Gethsemane, he wouldn’t have cried out in superhuman woe while on the cross, where he pled with Father to know why he had been cut off from his presence and forsaken while simultaneously also being called upon to endure the unspeakable physical and emotional agonies of crucifixion. If the entire contents of the bitter cup had already been entirely consumed and neutralize by Christ while in Gethsemane, it would have been unjjust and cruel for the Father to subject his son to a situation and state of mind where he was subjected to unfathomable physical, emotional and spiritual agony. Ask yourself this question: When he first appeared to the Nephites after his resurrection, why didn’t the Savior proclaim to them that he had suffered in a garden in Jerusalem for the sins of the world instead of saying that he he had been “crucified for the sins of the world?” (3 Nephi 11) The last dregs of the bitter cup of God’s wrath for sin were consumed and neutralized by Christ as he suffered on Calvary’s cruel cross. The physical, emotional and spiritual sufferings he endured there were so great that they were enough to cause an otherwise immortal being to die, quite literally, of a broken heart.